I created a common old-fashion style board game which seems no one is looking to market anymore with technology the way it is. My game is unique enough I believe, and has appeal and variety for many types of players. I designed a prototype board on paper with special tokens, custom dice, and drafted the rules, strategy tips, and short instructions. I have submitted it to three or four different places and have been politely let down by each one saying it wasn't their type of game, or not wild or crazy enough or lacked a theme. So, I thought of possibly having a few games made in order to sell them to some local stores myself, or worse case scenario to pass around to my friends and family. Figuring this on my own, I already submitted the trademark and patent pending requirements that I thought were necessary to insure the protection of my idea and design, but, now since there doesn't seem to be any interest, I don't know whether it would be best to keep the registrations active or just sell a game by having some made. Cost wise, it appears to be relatively the same either way. In any event, I'm not sure what is really necessary or not. If anyone has some advice or direction they would like to share with me I would be most grateful. It would be nice to know if my game is even actually marketable to someone or a consumer group at all. I am not sure if putting my game onto a kick start site would be the way to go to find that out. I've gotten good feedback from people who played it and can only compare it to other games, knowing that I created it as one that I would purchase myself. So, it is not clear to me as to what direction I should take. I sure would like any feedback from anyone who has gone thru this process and has actual game publishing experience and first hand knowledge.
Boardgame Journey
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First things first
Hey Donna,
Welcome to the site. If you're looking for people to help you make a great game, this is a good place to be a part of.
First things first, can you tell us more about the game? Maybe explain some of the mechanics and how it all works?
Just because it's old school doesn't necessarily mean anything one way or the other. The market is definitely a very different place nowadays, but there are still a TON of people playing old school games.
As far as the patent and all, I'm no lawyer, so please don't take this as professional advice, but it's probably not necessary to keep it active for a board game. A company stealing a designer's game is extremely rare in this industry. (At least from everything I've read and seen.)
As far as having some games made, are you familiar with www.thegamecrafter.com? It's a great, affordable option if you just want to make a handful of games.
But, ultimately, we're going to need more information about your game to be able to truly help you with it.
Wow...I have a lot to say.
The first thing you have to know about making a game is that the board game industry has grown significantly in the last 20 years. There is a veritable renaissance going on and there are thousands of board/card games released every single year. It's highly competitive, so even having a good game doesn't guarantee success.
So your first order of business is to just research what's out there. If you know what kinds of trends there are, you can modify your game so that you can reach the right audience...this includes testing your game with many different kinds of people.
Speaking of which, from what I've read, it doesn't appear that you've gone through a testing period with your game. In my opinion (and I'm sure it's a lot of people's opinion as well), testing is the most important part of a game. I tested my game for well over 6 months, taking the game to many conventions, game gatherings, and random people...all learning and tweaking along the way.
As far as patents, you want to make sure your game is perfect even before you start thinking of getting a patent...and even then, it's just a waste of money. The game industry is a different beast than the product industry...people steal ideas all the time, it's the expression of those ideas that people need to protect, and that is done when you publish.
I'm sorry to say that if game companies are politely declining your game, they are probably telling you something. Like I said, the industry has trends, fads, and so on...you have to be aware of those. It's not just a "Well, I like games, therefore I can make them". That's just like saying "Well I like driving cars, therefore I can make one".
Game design is primarily trial and error....just like art. Your first masterpiece will actually be your worst; your subsequent projects will be better because you spent your time learning on the first one. But it's also engineering...there are design theories and practicalities behind making a game. How much luck? How much skill? How and why do the pieces interact? How thematic are the mechanics to the game? What colors do you use? There's so many questions.
I can only surmise so much from your post; there's so little information you've given about yourself, your game, or what your process is. If I'm wrong about my assumptions, please tell me. But to be fair, I teach game theory at the college level and I talk to a lot of people, seen these people prototype games, and I've designed and released my own game. There are other people here that have similar or stronger credentials and I know they are here to help.
Comments To Gabe and Radioactivemouse
I actually developed this game in 2010, just for fun and to create something of my own, and played it each year with several friends and family. I made changes here and there by how people reacted to it. What it is today is the end result of that. We all enjoy it periodically just as much as other games, so that led me to the idea of getting it published. This was a one time endeavor for me as making money was not the main priority. I am not an inventor by any means, but rather someone who likes to take something I know and either improve it or make it interestingly different. As for my game, it is called Circle Back. It is on a round playing board with white squares for all to use and colored squares specific for each player. The components have only three tokens per player, with rings, and dice. You are able to move in both directions of the board by rolling even or odd numbers. The goal of the game is simple but the plays are what makes it entertaining. The object is to be the first player to get all three tokens around the board and back to their home base by reaching a target opposite of them which is signified by turning their token over and dropping its ring. The rings are placed into enclosures above four byway passages on the board and when one gets filled the byway can no longer be used until someone re-rings your token. Players can send other players to the center circle, and various other areas on the board depending on where they land. The center circle also has multiple entrance and exits that can enable players to move around the board more quickly or to attack or to avoid. It has strategy plays and moves that keep you thinking which makes it fun to play. This is the general principle of my game. Outside of you asking what my game is all about, I do not know how telling you is going to help in the process of deciding how to find a publisher interested, or the other resources to self publish if that is not possible. At this point, all I know is the publishers bios that want or take family type board games have not been interested. I do not want to waste a lot of money doing unnecessary things with it but am unclear what is and isn't necessary. What I am really looking for is for someone to tell me whether its even possible to find someone out there willing to take on or consider a game such as mine? Or, what other alternatives are there, if any.
Hi Donna, I think the point
Hi Donna,
I think the point about getting more information about your game is that the more we know about it, the better the chance is that someone can suggest a way for you to move forward, whether that is by suggesting a publisher who is interested in that type of game, a way to get copies printed efficiently, or ways to improve the game so it is more likely to attract the attention of publishers or players.
Good luck!
Rob
Make sure you use paragraphs
Make sure you use paragraphs in your posts, it is hard on the eyes if it is unformatted. :P
Second, definitely try TheGameCrafter.com as well as taking the game to game stores and conventions. If you want your game out there, you have to put it out there. If you use a print on demand service (the game crafter), you aren't spending any money for publishing, though you'll still have to market it.
If it is just for print and play as a hobby, there are sites that also do print and play publishing which is also pretty cool. Also, you're not going to be selling Monopoly or anything even remotely that high volume - so, shoot for the niche your game covers.
Working within TGC restrictions
While The Game Crafter (TGC) is a GREAT resource to publish games, it may not be 100% useful in all cases. Firstly reading the description of the game sort of reminds me of the game "Sorry!" I may be incorrect in the exactitude of the game, because I am certain there are differences, it's just I get the feel of an "abstract", yet "luck-driven" board game.
Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
Getting back to TGC. The point about TGC is that you have specific components you can use. Take the board's size. In order to have the game printed and produced by TGC, you must follow the sizes prescribed by TGC. They have several different sizes - but it is in no way CUSTOM. You must select one of the board sizes available via TGC.
Although TGC offers a LOT of components (and they are of great quality), I have used their services for prototypes and reviewer copies. But the issue with some games is CUSTOM sizes of components which makes TGC sometimes incompatible.
So your first mission would be to produce a TGC prototype.
It's costs $0.00 to do so. All you need to do is download templates and work with art software such as Adobe Photoshop, GIMP, Corel Paintshop Pro, etc. Whatever raster software you use... Then you must create a TGC account and UPLOAD all your artwork (board, cards, stickers, etc.)
Again at ZERO cost to you.
Then when your prototype is READY - you MUST purchase ONE (1) copy.
This is a way of "proofing" your game. Once you get the game and are satisfied with the overall look of the game several things can happen:
A> You decide you want to see if you can write a SELL SHEET about your game and contact publishers about your game by e-mailing them a copy of the SELL SHEET.
B> You want to SELL via TGC your game. Which is perfectly fine - but don't expect too many sales unless you MARKET your game more.
C> You want to KICKSTART your game. This is another alternative which will require much, much more work. You will need to have a graphic artist to help design the Kickstarter Page. You will need to produce several prototypes and mail them to reviewers around the world. You probably will want to incorporate a business to protect yourself from the company ventures, etc.
So those are your basic three (3) options. Perhaps there are others - I have just cited the most popular ones.
This will give you a start as to figuring out what it is you want to do with your game.
Best of luck with your game!
Thank You
I do really appreciate all of this good advice I have gotten thus far. Guess I expected a little more feedback from the publishers I submitted my game to, but realize now that they must have much more important priorities than that to waste their time.
I will be following the advice you all have given me, and feel a lot better about the direction I should go.
It is funny the mention of the game of Sorry has come up before, but having played it myself, I see major differences. That game is so simply mechanical with little thought and more for kids, where mine takes focus and strategy moves for adults that kids under 13 cannot follow well.
Are there not a lot of games that have similarities and yet the comfort of those things such as tokens, dice, cards, and squares to jump are what people are attracted to in a typical board game?
Any time I can get other advice from anyone, I would value that, so please feel free let me know.
About Publishers
I have dealt with a few publishers. One even took 1 YEAR before deciding NOT to publish my game. But that is not to say that talks were much more conducive either: it would take MONTHS before they responded to an e-mail.
Another publisher I got feedback right away. They were like: "Well how is this game different?" I did not have a SELL SHEET to say bullet #1, bullet #2, bullet #3, etc. Basically they turned me down because they did not find my game sufficiently inventive enough.
After those experiences I decided that I would "Self-Publish" the game because I know it's a good game. So I made a bunch of prototypes and mailed them to reviewers around the World. To be honest those who reviewed our game gave us positive reviews. Those who simply "previewed" our game also did a good job (maybe some minor errors here or there).
Now we are planning to "Self-Publish" via The Game Crafter (TGC). We are not looking to make tons of money, it's rather the opposite: we have a goal of about $10k to reach which is about 500 Game Sets sold. We'll see how well we do - because this release (PRE-Release) will give us insight into how many people we have successfully communicated the sale of our game.
We also are planning to Kickstart a "Limited Edition" in March of 2017. That's almost a year away - allowing our artist to complete ALL the artwork required by the game. But we will be selling the game via TGC and offer an "Art Bundle" in December 2016.
So it's like a three-pronged approach: PRE-Release in July-August 2016, Art Bundle in December 2016 and Limited Edition in March 2017.
We hope that this sales strategy allows us to recoup MOST (if not all) the money invested in the game EARLIER (rather than not or later).
Sometime you have to be more creative about how you plan to sell your game and make differentiation between a one-shot strategy versus something a little more flexible - where we get the chance to communicate the game's availability.
Our goal is to "RECOUP" as much as possible - and as early as possible. I've invested about $6,500 already in graphic design, creative writing, artwork, prototypes, shipping fees, awareness ads. etc. A $10k TCG sale would balance the books... And allow us to continue the production of our game.
We will see how CLOSE we are to that mark in August 2016!
questccg
Good luck to you with all that...
It's true if you want something done, you sometimes have to make it happen all by yourself.
Just in the 6 years since I created my game, I have seen bits and pieces of it come to surface in other games.
In a way, my own game being somewhat compared to Sorry, which is a classic, is really a compliment - Look at Bananagrams!
There is hardly nothing in this world that has not been thought of before, it just hasn't been brought to life.
Sounds like you at least are lucky to be working along with another, as you say "we". Just continue to do what you have to do and I'll sure try to do the same.
I was just thinking...
Instead of using Even/Odd numbers, you could use White/Black dice. The White dice could move clock-wise and the Black dice could move counter-clock-wise...
As far as "we" are concerned... I am/have worked with various individuals at various stages. For example I hired a Freelance Writer to improve the storylines on the cards. She did a wonderful job. I also hired a Graphic Designer to help with logo and card layout. Currently I am working with a very talented artist - who is making all the illustrations for the game.
And of course, working with my Developer Joseph Pilkus whom I met on this website. He has helped refine my game through more playtests and helped improve several details from roles to scenarios.
So it's a collaborative effort... Many contributors along the way! :)
questccg
Thanks very much for your thoughts and reply...
I had thought of White/Black dice, but that does not work the same with my game. So I have kept it as custom white dice with even numbered dots in red and odd numbered dots in black. This way you will not always move in both directions with each roll.
I have spent a few years already going thru different scenarios. Some rather good ones I scrapped because they added too much excess or took away the basics of the whole idea.
There is more to my game than what I have written about it, and unless an actual publisher showed an interest, I don't really care to elaborate every thing about it. I only sent it out to four, one not even having the time to review it, and the other three at least said it was interesting. Can someone tell me how many is not enough to submit to or too much, and am I wrong to stop trying that side of it?
I know my generation loves the old board games, and I personally will continue playing them, but my thought is that maybe it is just too late? Just how many, if any, such board games are actually being accepted?
And, I'd like to know how true is it that because more and more people in the new generation are losing interest and going for the electronics, that regular board games will be obsolete in the not so far future? Hard for me to believe, but the world does keep changing.
Goof Stuff
As designers we like to "better understand" the game's people are designing. I personally am 100% transparent about my games. Where I draw the line at is "communicating" my rulebook. It's under "lock & key" and have just submitted it for thorough testing (as to its content).
Interesting dice concept. I like it! Gives me something to think about. I really like the mechanic.
My best advice for you would be to make a GOOD (maybe GREAT) SELL SHEET. Make first contact and see if you can "hook" someone in taking a look at a prototype.
As for submitting your game to publishers, you could maybe "help your cause" by stating in your e-mail with publishers that you have submitted copies to other publishers for review. It's FAIR to say that "you are shopping your game around". I have failed with publishers so I'm not the best candidate to explain "what WORKS". Communicating the game and it's key differentiating factors is one thing. But how to CONVINCE someone it's a game worth publishing is another matter all to itself.
See things like that "novel" dice Mechanic are COOL mechanics. It's very inventive - and I guess you need to focus on such items to SELL your game to a potential publisher.
I'm not versed enough to tell what "category" your game fits into... Could be "roll & move" which is perhaps the WRONG category. Everyone is steering away from these games - they are OLD in genre but contain most of the game staples (Candyland, Monopoly, Clue, Snakes & Ladders, etc.) So I would try to focus on other ASPECTS of the game.
But again I don't have a full comprehension of the game to know WHAT to brand it as...
Trust me, I'm not pushing for you to disclose more information. But you should already be AWARE that MOST people "don't give a crap about your game idea". And you should feel free to discuss the game openly now knowing that nobody is going to "STEAL" your game idea...
Publishers get a lot of game submissions... And are busy people. It takes time to communicate with them and you need to offer them something UNIQUE that "they" want to SELL. Things like your custom dice - is the way to go. It's an interesting (and novel) "TWIST".
Just my 5 cents (we abolished the penny a couple years ago!) ;)
Cheers.
Note: Oh yeah - take a read a James Mathe's website about Publishers. There is a LIST too... You can also check out BGDF Publisher List (I am its moderator) The link is http://www.bgdf.com/node/621
Here's James' page: http://www.jamesmathe.com/courting-a-game-publisher-dos-and-donts/
Also another link about Contracts: http://www.jamesmathe.com/alien-first-contract/
Feel free to consult more of James Advice... He is a very good advisor.
Video Games != Board Games
Although Video Games are very COOL - Board Games have their OWN APPEAL. First and foremost, they REQUIRE people to "come together", secondly they allow people to "share an experience". While that might be true of MMO games ... board games ALSO have a "Physical" component.
What I mean is that you can ACTUALLY HOLD cards, you have decks and a hand, and in some cases a board.
So there is a PHYSICAL link between the "experience" and the game itself. This is not true even for MMO games - all video games are VIRTUAL. For example playing a game of Solitaire. You can play it on the computer, but you can also play it at home on a table or desk.
Perhaps more complex card games like UNO (still very simple) also create a FUN way to "interact" between players. And then we go into even more complicated genre of card games DECK-BUILDERS. Like "Tradewars - Homeworld" (my game), deck-building is a core mechanic of the game. It adds a whole other layer of strategy to "Hand Management" and "Set Collection".
I don't think "board games" will disappear. With so many people eager to make and SELL more of their ideas - I think it's more of a CULTURAL thing or way of thinking.
One of the anonymous blind playtesters said my game had a "Video Game-feel" to it... And he was surprised "since the game is made up of cards". It's those kind of "emotions" we hope to stir up in people and say "this game is COOL - I enjoy playing it..."
But realize that the FAMOUS staples are surpassed by the REAL staples of innovative design such as "King of Tokyo", "Powergrid", "Settlers of Catan", "Puerto Rico", "Smallworld", "The Resistance", "Dominion", "Pandemic", "Ticket To Ride", "Heroscape"... This is not a definite list - but gives you some ideas about POPULAR games that are INNOVATIVE as compared to "Roll & Move" games.
I recommend you watch video reviews about all these games. They are all FUN and wonderfully UNIQUE. It will probably give you MORE ideas than you had already! :)
Cheers.
questccg
I have lots to consider, and all your feedback and information has been very helpful. Thanks!
At a Loss
Well, the more I think about it all, the more I believe that I just have no chance with my game as far as getting it published. I will probably just have some made up for my own pleasure and for the people I know who enjoy it as much as I do.
Unfortunately, all the popular games are the ones that do not appeal to my taste in the least. I seem to be in the minority. I do not like war games and games with all the weird themes and complexities. I LOVE the simple "Roll and Move" board games. I enjoy your everyday games of cards, dice, words...all the stuff you can bring with you camping. So, I am one, along with the people I know, who will never buy those INNOVATIVE type games for themselves.
If I knew my own game was the kind people wanted out there, I would think about hiring a professional to critique it and fine-tune it for publishing. I personally like the more simplified game idea as compared to those others. So, again, even though my game has its uniqueness and is fun to play, where could I really go with this when the majority does not agree?
Innovation does not equal
Innovation does not equal complexity. And there are lots of games you can bring with you camping.
Btw, out of curiosity - which 'popular games' have you tried?
Elkobold
Of course you can probably bring whatever you want camping, but board games with much more components are harder to handle in smaller places. I checked out the list of games on the last blog given to me,,,Powergrid, King of Tokyo, Smallworld, Pandemic, Ticket to Ride, etc. etc. and lots of others that were recommended to review. They all have themes, some really more artistic than necessary, which is okay, but like I say, that is not what peaks my interest. It's more the challenge and strategy to keep you thinking and entertained that I want and look for. So, when there is a theme to it, like war, monsters, or sports for instance that I don't care much about, I get turned off frankly. I simply prefer the games that are more generic.
King of Tokyo is an extremely
King of Tokyo is an extremely simple game, using yatzee principle, with very few components.
7 wonders is nothing but a deck of cards.
Both can be easily played outdoors.
Pandemic is not heavy and provides lots of challenge.
There are very different games on the market, with different levels of depth, complexity, strategy and challenge. Based on any theme imaginable.
Maybe I didn't understand your point properly, but you seem to somehow place the roll&move on one side, and all the miriads of games using different mechanics on the other, while saying that you want challenge and strategy in your games. Hence you imply that roll&move has it, while other games overdo the theme part.
I must admit, I dont have much experience with roll&move games. I've played monopoly and talisman. There's also relic. Neither of those games offer much strategy or challenge.
So which game you have in mind then? (apart from the one you have developed), which has challenge and strategy?
Also, by "checking out", do you mean you've played all of those games?
Which were the last 5 games that you have played? (not necessarily from that list?)
Don't give up!
It's worth noting that a lot of games that are very highly rated by hobby gamers are not complex games with many moving parts and themes that put "normal" people off.
For instance, Hive is a little strategy game with chunky tiles and no board; Codenames is a team-based game of giving clues to help your team guess words; Red7 is just a deck of 49 cards with a clever rule about needing to play cards so you are "in the lead"; The Duke is a chess-like strategy game where you add pieces to the board that you pull blind from a bag; No Thanks! is another simple card game that is all about judging when to accept a penalty for fear of something worse coming up; Coloretto is about collecting coloured cards, but not too many different colours... and so on.
All of the games I mentioned (which are all in the top 400 on BoardGameGeek, so certainly well regarded) are innovative in some way, but they don't have wacky themes and also call back to older "classic" games so I could introduce them happily to my non-gamer friends. And they are all pretty compact and I could easily take them camping.
What I am trying to say here is to not give up because you fear the market doesn't like games without themes involving dragons, war and complexity. Your game may well have a place in the modern market. Besides, those of us who like those more intricate and challenging games are in the minority.
Elkobold and Polyobsessive
Okay... Well, you have given me some food for thought and maybe I am looking at this all wrong. Guess I should really give it more contemplation, instead of being so myopic about it all. A good many of these games I have not actually played myself, but have just reviewed... So, I do thank you guys for your input and for trying to help.
Do you have a copy of the
Do you have a copy of the game/rules for review and analysis?
JewelGames
Yes, I do have a picture of the board and a copy of the rules. I can e-mail to you if interested.
Does the board have to be circular?
I just ask because while you can certainly print a circular layout onto a standard square or rectangular board grid boards are more common.
If the game could work on an 8x8 grid for example then you could market the game as DLC (using a video game term) for anyone already owning a chess or checkers board. Give them the rules, the dice, any custom tokens (for the players to use & also to mark special grids) & let them go. It's certainly cheaper to produce if you self market & shipping is less as without a board the box will be smaller & lighter.
tedthebug
The circular layout is on a square board. I have been busy with other projects but plan to get more serious on my game this coming week. I will take everyone's advice into account for sure. Thanks
Please provide an e-mail address for attachment
I would like to send you a copy of my board, the rules, and other components of the game for your analysis. Of course anyway I can save money in the production of an actual to-scale prototype, I am for. By the way, what programs will allow me to make it to scale?
If you provide me with a link to send it all to, I will do that. Maybe with your expertise, you can tell me if it is worth publishing more than just on a basis.
I have really just worked alone with no experience at all on my version of a prototype, so I guess getting it to a more professional state to show or market seems like the next course of action?
oops
Second paragraph should of said on a per demand basis. Sorry.
Donna you can use Dropbox
Visit http://www.dropbox.com, create a FREE account and upload a PDF or Word document (for rules).
Maybe what you could do with your board is just upload a fairly large PNG or JPG image.
That should be enough... I'll take a closer look. I really liked the dice mechanic - I'm sure there are probably other good ideas in the game. And maybe we can categorize the game better with more insight.
We can also tell you if you can use a service like "The Game Crafter" (TGC) http://www.thegamecrafter.com
First thing is to get an account and upload rules and a board image.
donnahadden wrote:...I guess
Well we need to see what state it is currently before figuring out if the game requires a "facelift".
But IF you are looking for a PUBLISHER, you should focus on WHAT IS UNIQUE and FUN about the game. Work on a SELL SHEET. Like this:
They will take care of the artwork...
If you want to sell it via The Game Crafter or Kickstarter, then you'll need to worry about all the presentation details.
This is just a SAMPLE SELL SHEET... But you should look at other samples, just Google "sell sheet board game". And you can see a bunch of images... For different games.
If you have any questions, do not hesitate to ask.
Cheers.
Circle Back on DropBox
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/xouala97ug437un/AADfd7_82dryW0dccZYOHRBba?dl=0
Link is now closed since the
Link is now closed since the people who requested it were able to view it. And, I am always willing to create a new one if someone else has an interest.