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What about borrowing from 2 games?

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Anonymous

This is in some way related to an earlier thread about how much you can borrow from another game. It seems to me the general opinion is that borrowing heavily from 1 game is a bad idea.

I have been wondering if for example borrowing from 2 games and adding a scoring mechanic with a twist would be acceptable?

I can see that most games borrow heavily from some or other titles so I would guess that this should be okay?

seo
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What about borrowing from 2 games?

I guess you could get away with that, but IMHO, in any field, not just board game design, you should try to learn from other people work, but try to create something new, and find creative solutions, not just take this from here and that from there, join the pieces and try to get some benefit from that.

That said, sometimes the way you combine parts of other people creations might be really ingenious and original, in which case you're really doing some original work, even if based on already existing parts. If you create a totally original game using chess pieces on a chinese checkers board, and the rules controling piece movements have nothing to do with chess, then it IS a new game, not just a chess on a different board.

It's not just about what's ok and what's not ok, but rather about what YOU want to do, I guess.

Seo

Anonymous
What about borrowing from 2 games?

Thanks

The thing is I usually come up with a new idea for a feature rather than a whole game. Then my thinking tends to go this would work best in that type of game.

I need another mechanism and something from another game just appears to be very well suited.

I do agree that if you decide to sit down and say I am going to combine T&E with PR then you are not really doing anything very original.

zaiga
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What about borrowing from 2 games?

Designers who worry about ripping off other game's mechanic should play Marcel-Andre Casasola Merkle's "Verräter" and then Bruno Faidutti's "Citadels". Both games revolve around a central mechanic of hidden role selection, which are exactly the same in both games. In this case it wasn't a matter of two different designers coming up with the same idea independently from eachother. In the rulebook of "Citadels" Bruno acknowledges the similarities between both games, and in fact states outright that he "borrowed" the mechanic from "Verräter".

I don't believe Marcel-Andre Casasola Merkle has ever received any royalties for it, and I have never heard anyone in the gaming community accusing Bruno Faidutti of plagiarism either. In fact, I believe Marcel and Bruno are good friends - certainly there are no hard feelings between them for Bruno lifting Marcel's original idea and using it in his own game.

Perhaps you can say that Bruno took a promising mechanic from an another game where it's full potential wasn't used, and made a better game around it.

seo
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What about borrowing from 2 games?

I don't mean that you can't use cards or dice or spins or boards or victory points or money or pawns etc. just because they are used in other games.

In the end, 99% of the stuff you can use in a game has already been used. Both pieces and game mechanics. Some things like dice are so broadly used that no one would say "I took the d6 and the colored pawns from Parcheese". Other things, like mechanics or scoring systems you can (and probably need to) tweak to fit your game so they can cont as at least partially original.

From the design side, I think having a new idea for a feature is just the perfect way to start a design. You just need to use this as a seed from where to grou the game, adding a theme, mechanics, scoring, etc. Going back and forth making changes on and on until you feel the game starts taking shape, then continue tweaking it and making it a better game. When to stop seems to be the most difficult call for many of us.

I think it's ok if you think "I want to do this game, just better", but it mightl be harder to come up with something you can consider "fully yours" through this path.

Seo

Anonymous
What about borrowing from 2 games?

Hi there, I'm new to the board and I guess I have a similiar question. I'm trying to create a World War 2 Naval game. I'm afraid that the game might be too close to other naval games that I've played before, 'War at Sea' and 'Victory in the Pacific' and the 'Great War at Sea' series.
How close can you bring a combat system before it's too similiar?
I've added long range and short range combat, along with an armor rating for combat results while still keeping (I hope) the system simple enough for anyone to use.
The map i'm not too worried about as several games use the system I'm looking at using. If anyone has had any experience in this I would gladly appreciate the help.

Anonymous
take what you need...

I say take what you need, invent what you don't already have; whatever makes your game fun. If you end up submitting it to companies and they tell you it is "just a rip off" then there you go. Otherwise do it, and do it well. I think the fact that you are asking the question means that you care enough about the creative process to not just steal.

You might end up with the next Cranium! Millions of copies sold, and it was just a blender of games already out there.

Anonymous
What about borrowing from 2 games?

jjacy1 makes some good points -- primarily, make the best possible game you can. If your game needs to use some elements from others, can you tailor them specifically to your game?

Merging ideas from other games also depends on your ultimate goal -- distribution/submission, or just fun 'n games with your group. If the former, you may want to spend more time looking at "borrowed" elements to see why they appeal, and whether it's the concept they represent or the implementation that works... Is there a way to modify it and make it unique? Add a twist or novel element?

Regardless of how you approach it, have fun and strive to make the best possible product you can. Best of luck!

Lor
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What about borrowing from 2 games?

I'm sorry, catching up on slightly old threads, and this one saddens me a bit.

I know borrowing is common, and even building up an idea from a given mechanic or scoring system can result in a sort of original product, but there are deeper sources of originality that help prevent plagiarism. I don't believe anyone here really celebrates borrowing or stealing the work of others. The first reviewers to play it will see that anyway, if they know their domain.

Better to get permission, because, as discussed elsewhere here, copyright in a game results the minute it's made by its creator, and that includes the description of the game rules, play mechanic, the sculptural shape of pieces, and of course any artwork.

Look for ideas and possible designs within yourself to make your game as original as possible. THEN you might borrow some famailiar values and use them in a completely new way, but essentially it's a "clean room" approach which absolves you of stealing.

CardboardAddict
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What about borrowing from 2 games?

Zaiga, little reply that might put a new dimension to what you said in your post. Faidutti actually new Casasola-Merkle personally and asked him whether he would mind. I read this on Faidutti's website. Also, the rules of the edition, and the text on the internet, both state: "If you like Citadels, buy Verraeter".

VeritasGames
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What about borrowing from 2 games?

Lor wrote:

Better to get permission, because, as discussed elsewhere here, copyright in a game results the minute it's made by its creator, and that includes the description of the game rules, play mechanic

Um, not exactly. The verbatim text of a game's rules are protected by a copyright, but the core methods of play are NOT protected by copyright. So if someone rewrites the games mechanics using new words then your copyright won't protect the original game's mechanics at all. Utility patents protect methods of doing things (including playing games). Copyright only protects a specific expression of the text of a game's mechanics, and only insofar as that text isn't largely synonomous with the mechanic.

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