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Abstract game - CRAZY IVAN

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aeragram
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Joined: 10/06/2009

Hallo,
My name is Krzysztof (Chris), I'm from Poland.
What do you think about game like this.
http://www.aeragram.akutrans.strefa.pl

Brykovian
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Abstract game - CRAZY IVAN

Hello Chris ...

Welcome to the BGDF! I gave your game a quick read-through, and have the following comments:

Your rules are clearly written, and the pictures are very nicely done and help out a lot. The only written piece that confused me for a bit was the term "1-6 pair" ... initially, I thought it meant any pair, but later figured out that you meant 1 die is a "1" and the other is a "6".

However, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of choice available to the player, which leaves little strategy for them to work through.

I hope to get another chance to read it through again later in the weekend ... and I'll let you know if anything else strikes me at that point.

Cheers,
-Bryk

Anonymous
Abstract game - CRAZY IVAN

Hello from me too Chris :)

First off, I think that its neat that you decided to use rummy tiles as the basis for your game. Including a varient to be played with a deck of cards was a nice touch.

I'm afraid that I found the same problem as Bryk did though in that the players have little to no control over what happens in the game. They randomly draw their starting peices, roll dice to determine what they can do in a turn, and blindly play a peice to see if they win any battles. Other than choosing which peice to play in a battle there is nothing for the player to really do, and even then the obvious strategy would seem to be to play your highest peice.

Your game rather reminds me of the card game War, where players flip cards and the highest takes the pair each time. Playing as a kid I remember it going on forever and not being that much fun.

I'm sorry, I feel like i've done nothing but put your game down, but I'm hoping that it's constructive criticism. There are things I liked. The rules were simple, the pictures great for clarifying, the game could be a lot of fun if you somehow give the player more control.

- David

aeragram
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Abstract game - CRAZY IVAN

Hi,
Thx for your constructive criticism.

I know that this game is "static" and similar to war, but in war you know nothing about your opponent's card and you can choose only "drink beer" or "don't drink beer" ;)

When I play Crazy Ivan I don't think about my moves, but when my opponent takes turn I try to "control" every move (his/her move), because after few crazy ivans I have to know what value my opponent's tiles are.
If you play your highest tile you win or not, you win valuable tile or not. You can play 13 and take only 1, your opponent may play 3 and take 2 - who win this game ?

I'm grateful to you for your comments, please more.

- Chris

Brykovian
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Abstract game - CRAZY IVAN

After thinking about it a bit, I can see that there is a bit of strategy involved with which tile you choose to play ... choose to the right for less risk (and less reward), or more to the left for a potentially higher payout (but higher risk as well).

If you allow *some* player choice (within some restrictive rules) as to how the cards move around -- perhaps give them the choice of moving 1 card or the other to the outside, instead of *having* to move both cards to the outside -- then you would get a game where the personality of the players would be more important. During the card moving, you'd have more "offensive" and "defensive" moves, and when you'd play a tile to battle, you'd have to keep in mind if you're playing with a risk-taking or player-it-safe type player.

-Bryk

aeragram
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Abstract game - CRAZY IVAN

Hello, again

I've changed rules of battle (little).
Now defender may sometimes choose tile to play (1 of 2 possible).
So, attacker must think about two defender's tiles before attack.
What do you think about Crazy Ivan, now.

New rules are here http://aeragram.akutrans.strefa.pl/crazy-ivan2.html

- Chris

Brykovian
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Abstract game - CRAZY IVAN

aeragram wrote:
I've changed rules of battle (little). ... What do you think about Crazy Ivan, now.

Hi Chris ...

I think you may have tweaked the wrong side of the equation ... under the original rules, the attacker was already taking a bit of a risk depending on the card he chose to attack with. Under the new rules, not only does he risk based upon what card he chooses, but also risks having the defender play the card determined by the die instead. I think this might have moved in the wrong direction.

Instead, I think it might help if the players had the sense that they were able to out-think their opponent by making a choice of which card gets moved during a non-battle round.

Those are my thoughts anyway ... perhaps some of the other folks who tend to play/design more card-based games will have a different opinion.

-Bryk

aeragram
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Abstract game - CRAZY IVAN

Hi,

game rules
http://www.aeragram.akutrans.strefa.pl/crazy-ivan2.html

I agree that attacker has double risk, but defender may defend now.
Defender has problem too, because attacker's tile in battle is *face down*. Example - defender knows that attaker's tile is higher than 5 and lower than 10, defender may play 4 or 8. What now ?

The idea of this game was:
- player watches opponent's moves ("crazy ivans") and gets information about opponent's tiles (only information which tile is higher than another tile)
- after "battle" player knows what was the value of one tile (and knows which tile is higher or lower than this value)

example (one player):
1) "crazy ivan" position 1 and 5, position 5 goes on the last pos.
2) "crazy ivan" (1-3), pos. 1 last, pos. 3 first
3) battle with pos. 5 - it is "8" and now I know pos.6 is lower than "8", pos.1 must be lower than "8" and lower than pos.6, it has value lower than "7"

more "crazy ivans" = more information

- Chris

zaiga
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Abstract game - CRAZY IVAN

Hello Chris,

I took a quick look at your ruleset. It's well written and the examples are clear. The game is very easy to pick up, and that's a big plus in my book.

As others have mentioned, there isn't a whole lot of choice in the game, but I don't think that's necessarily a problem. You clearly intend to make this a "light" game, and that's exactly what it is. I even think you can revert to the old defender rules as I'm not sure that giving the defender choice over what to play actually makes the game much better.

A possible concern would be that there isn't much "action" in the game. The fun is in the battles, and they come up when a double is rolled, which is 1 in 6 rolls, on average. Maybe that's enough, maye be it isn't. In any case you can easily find out through playtesting, and it shouldn't be too hard to fix, either.

I do think the game lacks some kind of twist, that makes it stand out from other games. Perhaps you can do something crazy when a 1 and a 6 is rolled. I'm sure you can come up with something fun.

Good luck with the game!

aeragram
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Abstract game - CRAZY IVAN

Hi,

In my very first rules I've decided that player which has 1-6 will replace first or last tile with tile from camp, but during the play I've changed this rule.
Maybe the best choice is rule like this:
- when player has 1-6 - player takes a deep breath ;)

- Chris

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