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Attack and Defense on Territories

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ottovonguericke
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Joined: 03/09/2010

My game contains a map, and is not completely unlike Risk. I am trying not to make it too much like Risk, so I want to stay away from using offensive and defensive dice for the attacks on different territories. I was wondering if anyone who had experience with more types of games like this could help me out. It would be much appreciated.

Jebbou
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Joined: 07/29/2008
Attack and Defense on Territories

Otto,

These are the wargames I have played (and enjoyed):
-Axis and allies (Dice rolling a lot)
-Mare Nostrum
-Serenessima
-Samurai & Katana

You will find a lot of other games on http://www.boardgamegeek.com/searchform.php3

On this site you will find a lot of reviews on games and their mechanics.

Regards,

Jeb

OutsideLime
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Attack and Defense on Territories

A little bit more information would be useful in order to help you.

1) Do you have different unit types (planes/tanks/infantry/whatevers) or are the units generic "armies" like in Risk?

2) Does combat occur between adjacent territories, or when units move into enemy-occupied territories?

3) What level of intensity are you interested in?

4) Are you shying away from the specific combat mechanic of Risk (which is a good idea... they already have a game that's exactly like Risk, and it's called Risk ;)) or dice combat in general? Would some randomizing element similar to dice (spinner, dice cards, etc) be a satisfactory substitution?

5) What's the theme/era? Is there anything specifically interesting about you game that makes it stand out? There must be some point that drove you to build a game, what is that point? Sometimes the answers to those questions can help to suggest a combat mechanic.

~Josh

ottovonguericke
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Attack and Defense on Territories

The units are basically generic "armies" and there aren't other types. The combat occurs when one player attempts to move into another already occupied, adjacent territory. I want to use a random generator, most probably dice, to decide the winner, but I just wanted to see if there were other ways to use them other than the 3 offensive and 2 defensive dice. The theme is Mafia in or around the 1930s, but I'm not sure how that can help me decide a specific mechanic.

Since the only two combat games I've played are Risk and Diplomacy, I don't really know the other methods that exist for this part of the game. Also, can you specify what you mean by "intensity"? Thanks again for your help.

OutsideLime
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Attack and Defense on Territories

Quote:
Also, can you specify what you mean by "intensity"?

Maybe I should have substituted "level of detail" for "level of intensity". Combat in a game like Risk is virtually detail-free (read: low intensity) whereas in a game like Advanced Squad Leader the combat details practically ARE the game. (Combat in that game takes into account terrain, camouflage, morale, weaponry, fatigue, possible weapon malfunction, line-of-sight, injury, cover, light/darkness, support troops, radios, explosives and explosions, and any number of other factors.)

Knowing that you are using generic armies tells me that you want the level of detail to be reasonably low, since all the abilities of specific units get erased by the genericization of the "army".

Knowing that it's a '30s mafia game tells me that it's on a smaller scale than Risk or A&A, probably restricted to one city, likely Chicago or New York, and maybe even just a region of a city. Each unit on the board probably represents one troop, or at most a small group of troops, whereas in Risk each unit represents a battalion.

How does that help decide on a mechanic? It may not suggest the specific actions of a mechanic, but it can lead you towards the FEEL that you want.

I would guess that you want combat to be quick and dirty. These are not the waves of soldiers colliding on the battlefield of Risk, they are the run & gun tactics of the streets. Pistols, Tommyguns, Molotov Cocktails. Many repeated rounds of multiple-dice rolling a la Risk represents the crash of mighty armies against each other.

Maybe action cards instead of dice? I send 4 troops into your turf, and as my first attack, lay down a Pistol card. (the most common attack) You must play a response card that applies (Dive For Cover, Hit The Dirt, Human Shield, whatever) or take a hit. Take a hit, roll a die to see if that troop has been injured or killed. Then you attack me, and so on, until someone wins or withdraws. I would suggest that troops from neighboring territories be allowed to join the fray as backup, attracted by the sound of gunfire.

That lets you be creative with your attack and defense system in the cards, while retaining the facelessness of the actual pawns on the board.

Maybe you don't want to go with cards... a simple customized dice combat system is very doable, the Risk model is far from the only option.

eg - combat is not attack/defense, but occurs simultaneously. We both roll 2 dice (or 1, or 3, or whatever suits the scale.) Subtract the lower roll from the higher. The one who rolled lower subtracts that number from their forces. Continue until victory or retreat.
example - Combat is initiated. We both roll. I roll a 9, you roll a 7. 9-7=2, so you lose 2 units. Maybe rolling bonuses can be applied for various reasons.

Hope this helps

~Josh

ottovonguericke
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Joined: 03/09/2010
Attack and Defense on Territories

Thanks, that helped a lot!

xantheman
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Attack and Defense on Territories

How many armies are going to be involved in each battle? If you are talking about small numbers of armies you could work on a system of rolling for each army. From there, you could go with the "roll x to score a hit" technique as in axis and allies, fortress america, samurai swords, warcraft, etc.

Or you could add the totals and compare to the other players totals to determine battle damage, then give armies a "hit point" number of some sort to determine how many armies the loser loses. Maybe something like roll 1 die per army, each army has 2 hit points. For every 2 points higher your total rolls are, the other guy loses 1 army.

I love war games and have played many and designed 2 (unpublished). I would be happy to help out more if I can. Your game sounds interesting.

Xan

www.rentoys.com

jwalduck
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Joined: 09/06/2011
Attack and Defense on Territories

Another question is what is the effect of losing a battle. In Risk battles result in an attrition of men (for both sides), in Dipolmacy the loser simply has to retreat, only losing men if they have nowhere to retreat to.

A Game of Thrones (PDF Rules) has a middle ground where the loser has to retreat and may lose some men. Unpredictable results but no dice.

With a Mafia based game "battles" could be turf wars. The winner pushes the loser out of a territory. There are no casualties, just lost territory. There might be another action or sub-set of a larger battle which is a "Hit" where one of the enemy is actually removed.

It depends on what your vision for the game is.

Also, in each players turn, how much of a combat is resolved? Option 1 is all combats started are finished (with a win, defeat or retreat) in the same player round. Option 2 is one action in each combat occurs in each player turn, so combats take multiple player turns which might give time for reinforcements to arrive etc.

jwalduck
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Joined: 09/06/2011
Attack and Defense on Territories

Just out of interest here is my take on Mafia fighting over territory in New York.

Anonymous
just in " aww "

I was reading the posts a few minutes ago and saw someone wrote about dice cards. LOL i couldn't help laughing because I though I was the only one to come up with that idea since I normally don't lay board games except designthem lol. I designed in two different games dice cards.

The first game with the dice cards are used as pecentages.
I will explain that one later due to the large context of explaining myself.
The second system for the dice cards are used for attack and defense system. I have explained it early before but if any one wants to hear about again let me know. I get to wound up while talking about game designs and I get the shrug or the person changes the subject. lol But I don't let that bother me. The person is just missing out great way to keep one self busy. :)

BullDog
Keep up the great work Min'na
(Everyone)

larienna
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Joined: 07/28/2008
Attack and Defense on Territories

a Few other details :

Do you only use D6, or can you allow your self to use dices with more faces?

In the same spirit than what jwalduck said,

There is the casulalty and the victory. In risk, you msut kill every body to get the victory. You can make these 2 elements separate items in your rules. You will first determine who win/lose and then determine how much troops is lost on each side. This mean that gettting victory can be very expensive or can simply be a quick victory with few loss.

This why, you gain 2 level of tactics : What territory and positions do you have, and how many soldiers do you have. Of course, gaining more territory with few casulaties is always better.

akacamper
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Attack and Defense on Territories

I suggest looking up the game called (Rubout) maybe u can getsome ideas from it that can help you out.

camper

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