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CCG boardgame without the C

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Anonymous

I have an idea for a boardgame that is partly based on the CCG style, except that you do not collect cards. There are no booster packs. All the cards come in the box, and players share them. I don't want to get into the specifics of the game yet. But my question is: does the concept even have merit? Seems to me the attractions of a CCG are:

- collecting cards, rarity, etc
- deck building
- highly interactive play
- surprises (opponent's cards unknown, random draw)
- thinking on your feet (using what you get to best advantage, complex combinations)

Eliminating the collectibility aspect obviously eliminates the first. Deck building I think I will have to some limited degree. So can it work? Imagine if MtG was a boardgame with no boosters. Who would it appeal to?

- existing MtG players who want a different game with less preparation
- CCG'ers and boardgamers who want a bit of cross-over
- RPG'ers (D&D, etc)
- fantasy boardgamers (Hero Quest, Titan, Runebound, etc)

Just thinking out loud, and looking for any feedback. Thanks.

VeritasGames
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CCG boardgame without the C

Well, if you listen to Ryan Dancey you'll hear that you'll fail utterly with such an idea. However, Carl Schulte did well with Babylon 5 and the Hercules and Xena boardgames, all of which were customizable board games. They used customizable selections of board tiles plus customizable decks.

I think your sales will be fine _if_ you have a licensed product.

If not, I think you'll cheat yourself out of some sales by not having randomized components.

phpbbadmin
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Well

Reiner Knizia made a non collectible customizable card game called Scarab Lords. It's a two player card game however, probably doesn't fit in exactly with what your envisioning. I personally have played several magic variants that where played within a 'sealed' system and played OK, but they didn't really reach the full potential of such a system.

I would love to see such a system suceed. How are you thinking you would implement the customization? Would everyone have access to the same stuff or would there be a drafting or bidding system for the 'stuff' (I assume it would be cards)? I think this would be a very neat idea, especially in the multiplayer realm. It would work with 2 players also, but I think then it's just more simple strategy. With multiplayers, you can take it to the next level and introduce things like diplomacy.

Good luck with your idea!
-Darke

Anonymous
CCG boardgame without the C

Well, I'll put it in MtG terms for now.

Imagine you have 2 highly customizable wizards (stats, abilities etc). Then you shuffle a large deck of cards, then deal, say, 10 to each player. They can choose, say, half of these cards, shuffling them, as their own personal "spell book" draw pile. Shuffle all the rest of the cards as a shared draw pile. On your turn you can either draw from the shared pile or, at some cost, draw from your spell book. In this way you know what's in there, but you don't know what card is next. Also, you don't get to choose from ALL cards, but a smaller set, so you have to be flexible with what you get.

And of course, being a board game, you get to introduce spatial aspects that MtG doesn't have. This adds a whole new dimension of play.

dr_Edge69
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CCG boardgame without the C

I like the hand management and planification of the deck in a CCG. And the idea to take away all the money involve in this kind of game is great.

Maybe you can create an ordinary card game with event card, at the beginning of the game the deck is splitted in two and players have 4 minutes to build a deck half the size of the splitted deck.

This would really need some fast thinking and knowledge of the cards.

IngredientX
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Re: Well

Darkehorse wrote:
Reiner Knizia made a non collectible customizable card game called Scarab Lords. It's a two player card game however, probably doesn't fit in exactly with what your envisioning. I personally have played several magic variants that where played within a 'sealed' system and played OK, but they didn't really reach the full potential of such a system.

Knizia actually has a new game that has CCG elements, but is not actually "collectible." It's called Blue Moon, and it will have expansions that will give the game the variety and depth of a CCG.

This game seems to have been received better than Scarab Lords so far... I have yet to try either.

Scurra
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CCG boardgame without the C

Scarab Lords is a sort of mid-way point between Battle Line (Schotten-Totten) and Blue Moon.

I like Blue Moon a lot even with just the initial four card sets. I'm looking forward to the new ones (due at Essen) to see what they do to the mix.

Anonymous
CCG boardgame without the C

Scurra wrote:
Scarab Lords is a sort of mid-way point between Battle Line (Schotten-Totten) and Blue Moon.

I like Blue Moon a lot even with just the initial four card sets. I'm looking forward to the new ones (due at Essen) to see what they do to the mix.

I'm a great fan of Blue Moon too. Lots of interesting decisions in its short playing time.

Richard.

GeminiWeb
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CCG boardgame without the C

Hmmm ...

Could even consider things like have a 30 card deck of event cards ... each player chooses 5 to make up the playing deck ... (based on promoting certain playing styles or the like)

Scurra
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CCG boardgame without the C

GeminiWeb wrote:

Could even consider things like have a 30 card deck of event cards ... each player chooses 5 to make up the playing deck ... (based on promoting certain playing styles or the like)

A standard way to implement this is to have a "cost" attached to each card, and then specificy how many points may be spent to construct a deck. So you can have lots of cheap stuff of a few of the more powerful cards instead. However, this doesn't really work in a shared deck environment, since one player is unlikely to want to run the risk of the other player drawing the perceived "better" cards. (OTOH there are plenty of ways around that situation, including choosing one card from a selection drawn, or allowing extra card draws at the cost of other actions etc.)

GeminiWeb
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CCG boardgame without the C

Scurra wrote:

Quote:
GeminiWeb wrote:

Quote:
Could even consider things like have a 30 card deck of event cards ... each player chooses 5 to make up the playing deck ... (based on promoting certain playing styles or the like)

A standard way to implement this is to have a "cost" attached to each card, and then specificy how many points may be spent to construct a deck. So you can have lots of cheap stuff of a few of the more powerful cards instead. However, this doesn't really work in a shared deck environment, since one player is unlikely to want to run the risk of the other player drawing the perceived "better" cards. (OTOH there are plenty of ways around that situation, including choosing one card from a selection drawn, or allowing extra card draws at the cost of other actions etc.)

My idea was actually that the event track causes an event that impacts on everyone, but the nature of the impact would depend on their strategy.

For example, in Peurta Rico you can go for VPs from buildings and/or shipping. Some event cards might benefit one of those strategies over the other (e.g. all buildings built this 'round' cost one less coin). Thus, the events ipact on everyone, but favour certain strategies ....

Anonymous
CCG boardgame without the C

I just saw this game on BGG and thought of your idea: Pirates of the Spanish Main.

It looks like you need to buy your own ships and sometimes other bits too...

Best wishes,

Richard.

Scurra
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CCG boardgame without the C

GeminiWeb wrote:

For example, in Peurta Rico you can go for VPs from buildings and/or shipping. Some event cards might benefit one of those strategies over the other (e.g. all buildings built this 'round' cost one less coin). Thus, the events impact on everyone, but favour certain strategies ....

But imagine how horrifying that would be if in one game I went for a building strategy and the Earthquake card turned up and destroyed my buildings, so next game I go for a shipping strategy and the Tidal Wave card turned up and sunk all my ships... (I know you're not talking about such extremities, but it's a good way to evaluate the mechanic.)

(In one design of mine that has Event cards, I get round this problem by basically ensuring that pretty well all of the Events will occur during the game, so the players know to plan for them. Sometimes they will get lucky but frankly that's better than having it so that sometimes they get unlucky instead.)

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