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CCG with Dice Mechanics

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Anonymous

Ok first post here... so greets all

here's what i'm looking for in this post, #1 thoughts on the mechanics (from a different group of people more in the game design field) #2 trying to figure out why the dice/ccg mechanic has failed on previous attempts

thank you ahead of time for any help or suggestions you might give on this, ^_^

Ok basic concept is this been working on a CCG for about 4 years now, managed to get revision 4 into alpha & beta testing, revision 5 into alpha and now working revision 6.2 so people local to my area (northern california) have tried the game at least a few times in the last 2 years so have a small fanbase (always helpful) here's the jist

No tapping for mana or resources, resource cards raise your maximum control. ie a Capitol city grants 10 resources. Outposts grant 5, then there's minor & major outlying area (1 and 2 resource respectivly)

You start the game with your first capitol already in play. (so no mana shortages for startup)

cards have varying costs ranging from 1-15 resources to put in play. so for example if you have 5 2 cost creatures in your hand you can play them all on your starting hand.

each creature has 1 HP and the resources have their own also (Capitols have 10 for example) which means the creature if defeated in combat will be destroyed.

victory conditions for the game are thus, defeat all opposing capitols (by making 10 successful attacks against a undefended capitol or by gathering 50 resources (2 different routes for player options)

ok so here's the dice part (typing quickly because it's 108f outside and i'm out here smoking)

A creature has 2 stats, Attack Rating & Defense Rating and they come in
4,6,8,10,12 varities. for example "bob the hunter" is a 4/8 creature. if bob attacks a capitol and the other player decides to use "larry the warrior" to defend (lets pretend he's a 6/6) the attacking player rolls his Attack rating (a 4 so 1d4) and the defender rolls his defense rating (an 6 so 1d6) if the attackers roll is higher the defender is destroyed. if there is a tie or the defender rolls higher then the defender survives, and neither one is destroyed (the only affect being that the attacker used his 1 action point for the round. with the mechanic it gives even the weakest defender a possiblity to still stand up to a 12/12 dragon (d4 still has a 25% chance to roll a tie or higher than a d12)

ok, so far so easy i believe... now another card type... spells/effects... Spells or effect cards can only be played if the following criterea are met,
#1 you need to have a creature with the ability SPELLCASTER
#2 that creature must not have used his action point this round.
#3 you must still have the resources available in this round to cast it. (Ah Ha! the resource explanation finally!)

creatures require the resources to remain in play so if you use the earlier example 1 capitol out and 5 2 cost creatures, you are using all available resources, which means you have no extra resources to cast spells because they require the same resources for creatures (just a 1 shot variety)

ok rambling a bit here, i'll try to post more info or field any questions regarding the system as i can. i'm just worried the post is too big now...

thoughts on dice/ccg mix?

Anonymous
CCG with Dice Mechanics

more info...

balancing has been attempted in cost vs power... here's the rundown

all cards have a base cost of 1 resource to play. abilities and higher dice affect the cost
d4 -1 to the cost (not to go below 1)
d6 +0 to the cost
d8 +1 to the cost
d10 +2 to the cost
d12 +4 to the cost

so a 4/12 creature with no abilties will cost 4 resources to play, etc

abilities also add to the cost

FLY/BURROW/SWIM (can only be blocked by other creatures with the same ability, or a character with the ability RANGED) add 2 to the base cost.
RANGED adds 1
and so on and so on

so since all abilties have been created (around 140 different abilities so far) with a set cost increase (or decrease for a few smaller ones) every card has the same value no overpowered cards without the cost to factor in.

an example of a decreasing cost ability

UNIQUE (only 1 of this specific card may be in play at any given time, and only 1 of this exact card may be in your deck) actually has a -1 cost involved thus making some of the larger cards a tad cheaper. So you could make a cheaper powerdeck with all uniques which would eliminate doubles of course)

...

so far the baseline set has 385 cards... although only 153 have been converted to the 6.2 ruleset

more to come if anyone interested, and if your designing a similiar mechanic perhaps we should put our heads together and figure why dice/card combos have done... hmmm.... not the best in the past

rellekmr
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Joined: 12/31/1969
CCG with Dice Mechanics

I'm friends with people in the Star Wars CCG community. Now that's the old game by Decipher, not the new one by Wizards of the Coast. When Decipher lost the license and Wizards came out with the new game, they were all excited to try it out, being huge Star Wars fans. However, they hated the dice mechanic in the Wizards game. Most of the comments were centered around how there's already a luck mechanism in any ccg (the deck) and adding dice just made it too random. Hardcore CCG players understand the randomness of a deck of cards, something that is controllable. However, when they have a hand and they formulate a strategy, they want that to be calculable. Dice completely kills off calculability.

Anonymous
CCG with Dice Mechanics

ok i see the point in the randomness and the obvious draw away from it, but personally (and this could be my problem, i'm making it personal) i tire of the usual method of TCG/CCGs of he who has the most money will win, ie the afordability of recreating a deck that is very difficult to beat with premium cards...

ok so if the randomness is the turn off, how would you suggest the ability for a person with a pregen'd deck vs a tourney player having even footing deckwise (deckwise only... the player with more experience will still have that factor, but a 7$ vs $1000 player should be able to both have fun experiences together)

Thanks for the response BTW...

rellekmr
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Joined: 12/31/1969
CCG with Dice Mechanics

There are four ways to prevent money from winning.

First method, don't make it collectible. Make it customizable, like Anachronism.

Second method, don't make rares. Make all cards equally distributed.

Third method, have a low per-card limit. Even if a card is montrously good, it won't be worth as much on the secondary market if you can only have 2 per deck.

Fourth method, don't make chase rares. Put all the good cards in common slots. Leave rare slots for cards that are cool. but not necessarily powerful.

Anonymous
CCG with Dice Mechanics

Quote:
First method, don't make it collectible. Make it customizable, like Anachronism.

Honestly never heard of it where i'm at, not something carried at the local A-1 Comics (which is our only source for CCG/RPG's) around where I live... I'll look into this

Quote:
Second method, don't make rares. Make all cards equally distributed.

This could work especially if values for cards are all equal, but then again when you have to pay for artists its nice when someone see's there art in a rarer form (thus helping the collectibility and value) as it stood currently with the created cards the only rares i really had were the cards with the UNIQUE code (thus also limiting to 1 in a deck total as not to overpower)

Quote:
Third method, have a low per-card limit. Even if a card is montrously good, it won't be worth as much on the secondary market if you can only have 2 per deck.

UNIQUE mechanic takes care of that one...

Quote:
Fourth method, don't make chase rares. Put all the good cards in common slots. Leave rare slots for cards that are cool. but not necessarily powerful.

Check! Using that currently but once again as i said a bit earlier it was more for the artist (especially the ones for $$$ commision) that i try to pull value back out of the card... do you follow this theory?

my experience with playing CCG's has been limited to
Magic/Jhad/Spellfire/Yu'gioh/AVP/Star Trek
with the majority being in Magic/Spellfire so thats why i'm probably attempting to work issues out of those systems instead of 100% new concepts...

rellekmr
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Joined: 12/31/1969
CCG with Dice Mechanics

Anachronism is sold in 5-card paks. But they are fixed 5-card packs. You know exactly which 5 cards you're getting. Look it up on triking games.

Willi_B
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Joined: 12/31/1969
CCG with Dice Mechanics

I will echo what has been said:

There were two things that should have screamed success put together - Star Wars and Richard Garfield.

However, there were dice and it flopped. If it is to be a CCG and not just a card game, I would oust the dice.

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