Here is a PDF version of the chat log from our scheduled Thursday lunchtime session on 31-March-2005. The topic was "Indirect Conflict".
http://www.bgdf.com/showdown/BrownBagChat/BGDF_BrownBagChat_20050331_IndirectConflict.pdf
-Bryk
Here is a PDF version of the chat log from our scheduled Thursday lunchtime session on 31-March-2005. The topic was "Indirect Conflict".
http://www.bgdf.com/showdown/BrownBagChat/BGDF_BrownBagChat_20050331_IndirectConflict.pdf
-Bryk
I wasn't able to make it today...thanks a lot for doing these!
Huh, I wish I'd been in on this!
For my posthumus two cents, I'd have to describe direct and indirect like this: Direct conflict has a material effect on game actors, such as loss of pieces, rescources, or position, while indirect conflict involves loss of mental or psychological rescources, such as concentration (being distracted by feints, and non-vital threats), or clear assessment (posturing or threatening actions that serve only to interfere with assessment of an action's value, such as making attacking a given piece or position seem riskier than it really is).
As you can see, indirect conflict, in my definition, resides in the mind, while direct conflict is everything else involved in the game, such as victory conditions and play state. Direct conflict is an ingredient in all games, since they are to be won or lost, while indirect conflict is present to the degree of a game's sophistication and the control of the players over events.
To me, direct conflict is tearing down something an opponent has built. Indirect conflict is influencing an opponent's opportunities. In Settlers of Catan, most conflict is indirect. But breaking an opponent's road by building a settlement on it is direct. The robber I think of as mostly indirect: you could argue that stealing cards is tearing down an opponent's hand, but I think of hand cards as resources and opportunities, since they come and go even without the robber.
Ticket to Ride is all indirect. Tigris and Euphrates has both direct and indirect conflict. El Grande has direct conflict, since you can move your opponent's pieces around and even banish them from the board. But note that in all of these games, you cannot take away an opponent's Victory Points.*
So I think Euro-games do have direct conflict. But they seem to heavily favor the indirect, and avoid themes and mechanics that are built around basically direct conflict, such as wargames.
* Yeah, okay, in Settlers and TtR you can take away awards like the Longest Road and the Largest Army. Picky, picky!
Two good working definitions. Very nice.
In a hundred years, these terms will be better defined, or we game designers will have a complex jargon for such specific ideas. I suspect there's already a specific, multi-syllabic word in German that expresses these concepts perfectly!
I've been working on a Topics in Game Design thread for a while now, which I just finally finished and posted here, on the subject of player interaction.
It takes a somewhat different approach towards classifying the types of player interaction, but probably covers some of the same ground. Check it out if interested!
-Jeff
To me, direct conflict is tearing down something an opponent has built. Indirect conflict is influencing an opponent's opportunities.
I see indirect conflict as changing an opponent's context or environment. Everyone (perhaps) can plainly see that something has changed, but it wasn't the target directly. The opponent has the same quantities of stuff, and that stuff has the same physical positions and conditions. Now, however, he must re-evaluate the possible uses of his stuff (which will likely be diminished in scope).
To say it differently, indirect conflict neither adds to nor takes away from an opponent's tools (whether they be cards, draws, special abilities, units, resources, or whatever). What it does, is put the opponent in a context where his tools are less effective. If he has a knife, I surround him with gunfighters. If he has a racecar, I surround him with bumpy dirt roads. If he has money, I surround him with empty shelves.
Since tic-tac-toe came up in the chat, I'll illustrate with it. Every time I choose a square, it changes the context of play for my opponent. I have not suddenly forced him to use my symbol instead of his own. I have not caused him to forfeit his turn. He has the same tools: one symbol and one turn to claim a location for that symbol. His available options for those tools, though, have been diminished.
Also, I think the two-player situation, in most cases, confuses the issue in at least two ways:
Second, having only two turns shortens the postponement of any intended effect. But the quickness with which the aforementioned teeter-tottering occurs serves to indicate when the effect is realized ("directly" or "immediately"), not how.
[/]
Hi guys ~ Gameland and Yaofish are officially accepting board game design submissions! (2) by questccg | |
Hidden Movement: What Makes it Cool? (37) by Jacob |
I need a 5th category of encounters (7) by larienna |
Dymino Monsters Update 4-18-2024 (2) by Stormyknight1976 |
Wizardry Legacy: the Forgotten Academy (12) by larienna |
TradeWorlds — Tactical Core (3) by questccg | |
Introducing, Jacob! (that's me by the way...) (0) by Jacob | |
Chat GPT: Testing as a design assistant (8) by larienna |
Winner Announced for the Meta Progression Community Challenge! (0) by The Game Crafter |
A programmer's dilemma (16) by larienna |
Qubits: a solo trick taking game (9) by Wobt2 |
Worker placement, Role selection and Action cards: Is it the same thing? (11) by larienna |
Site Ads and Google Experiments (0) by questccg |
TradeWorlds — Smuggler's Run (7) by questccg | |
Single Item Shipping at The Game Crafter (0) by The Game Crafter |
Protospiel Indy 2024 (May 24-26) (0) by The Game Crafter |
How to avoid being blocked at content creation (10) by questccg |
Protospiel Indy 2024 (0) by sirvalence |
In need of some IDEAS concerning a "Battle" System (15) by questccg |
How to avoid quarterbacking in an adventure game (7) by larienna | |
How complicated could math get? (23) by X3M |
Can we have gaming ads on this website (7) by questccg |
Dice Mitigation Challenge - Winner Announced! (0) by The Game Crafter |
Delving! - " That is when it hit me, it was starting to feel like other games" (3) by MarkJindra | |
Game Purchase Contract (0) by MarkJindra |