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Endgame Question

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Hambone
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Joined: 12/31/1969

I have posted a few questions about my game "The Outfit" and had nothing but GREAT SUGGESTIONS. So I thought I would throw out another question I am wrangling with after my playtesting. I disagreed with all of my playtesters on this.

Game Summary: Each player moves their crime boss around the prohibition-era city building a criminal empire. There are 4 levels of buildings in each of 4 "vices" (working on a better term). Gambling, Booze, Money Laundering, and Labor Unions. Buildings create income during the payoff phase. Every time a player builds a building, they leave behind evidence unless they pay extra to do the criminal act "clean". When leaving evidence, ,they place a card of their color face down into a pile for that "vice". Once a vice pile reaches 7 cards, an investigation is started. The player with the most evidence in that vice pile is busted and loses everything in that vice. Other players can also takeover your existing buildings at a reduced rate (it is cheaper to takeove another's building than start from scratch) but you cannot do it without leaving evidence. Once 7 busts have ocurred, the game is over. The person with the most money wins.

The Question: At the end of the game, are buildings an asset or a liability?

Are there any games that you can think of where the very thing you use to build you success hurts you at the end?

Hambone
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Endgame Question

BTW, a simple vote is fine.

Nando
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Joined: 07/22/2008
Re: Endgame Question

Hambone wrote:
The person with the most money wins.
I vote to ignore them altogether.

Hambone
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Endgame Question

That isn't fair! You aren't supposed to complicate things for me. I liked the two party system. Now watch, you are going to start a new political party and screw the whole thing up. :)

You voted for Ross Perot, didn't you?

Thanks for your input.

Jpwoo
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Joined: 03/26/2009
Endgame Question

Quote:
4 "vices" (working on a better term).

Rackets?

Well if this is a prohibition era game I could see leftover assets being a liability if you want. Who needs bathtub gin after prohibition is repealed?

The other Vices are a bit harder to rationalize, but you could say there was an apocalypic event that legalized Booze, Hookers and Gambling, as well as cleaning the unions all at once. Call it the Vegas Event.

Or you could have some things be mixed. For example Gambling and Hootch count agaisnt you while, floozies and union shills are positive.

zaiga
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Re: Endgame Question

Nando wrote:
Hambone wrote:
The person with the most money wins.
I vote to ignore them altogether.

I agree with Nando, ignore the buildings at the end of the game. The buildings are an income generator (good), but they also have the effect of leaving evidence (bad), so it seems like there's a trade-off in there anyway. Test the game this way and see if you like it. If you want to add a bit of incentive to build buildings, perhaps because later in the game they become less useful, then you could award some points for it at the end of the game.

Johan
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Joined: 10/05/2008
Endgame Question

Nando wrote:
Hambone wrote:
The person with the most money wins.
I vote to ignore them altogether.

I like games where you must use your VP to gain more VP. This is the case here (you have to buy houses to get income and more money (VP)). Nando get my vote ;-) ). Ignore the houses.

// Johan

NetWolf
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Endgame Question

It's like a game of monopoly where you draw the "Assessed for Repairs" card and you JUST put hotels on Boardwalk and Park Place.

It's a fair balance in your game it seems. It leaves some amount of strategy and allows for a last ditch 'money grub', allowing a player to say "To hell with the consequences! I'm too far behind everyone else!" In the end, they could still win because they took a risk and was reckless at some point in the game.

OutsideLime
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Endgame Question

Quote:
Rackets?

Perrrrfect.

~Josh

Hambone
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Endgame Question

Morsels of imporvement gained from this thread-

1. "Rackets" is a huge theme improvement. It feels right!

2. Ignore the buildings. We play tested it and found that the person who lost was in the lead until the very end. They lost because they didn't see the end coming and continued to build and spend money up to the last turn. They built buildings that took to long to pay of. I like rewarding people for endgame awareness. This does it. the good/bad balance Zaiga references was upset when trying to react to the buildings at the end.

3. Personal lesson: don't assume you know all the options. Someone will always present another.

Thanks everyone. A little more playtesting and I will post my next issue for your input.

Hedge-o-Matic
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Joined: 07/30/2008
Endgame Question

Hambone wrote:
Don't assume you know all the options. Someone will always present another.

I've got this tattooed across my forehead!

seo
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Joined: 07/21/2008
Endgame Question

Hedge-o-Matic wrote:
Hambone wrote:
Don't assume you know all the options. Someone will always present another.

I've got this tattooed across my forehead!
The only problem with that is that it's hard for YOU to read. ;-)

Desprez
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Joined: 12/01/2008
Endgame Question

Hambone wrote:

3. Personal lesson: don't assume you know all the options. Someone will always present another.

Especially on this board.

@seo,
If he had it tatooed in reverse, he could read it in the mirror.

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