I have experimented with a generic fantasy game for several of years. Still no prototype is made for the complete set, but a lot of new games have been created around this. This is the work so far and my ideas around it. I have tested several new mechanisms just to reach the goal to create the game.
What I wanted to do was to create a set of games where you can expand and build the game in the style that you want. The game could be a board game, a war game, an economic game, a card game, a table top or something in between. When you include a new component into the game, it would give you something new in the game. This would be a game that developed during the time.
In the market today we have 3 games (or type of games) that fit this description to develop during the time, and you could customize the games:
- Magic/ Warhammer: (and other Collectible games). The games develop during the time, but each player bring there forces to the battle. These games could be classed as dynamic, but only within fixed frames. You still want to kill you opponent and you will only win in one way.
- ASL: Massive battle games with expansions. You can not customize ASL but you can customize the scenarios. ASL as a game is more dynamic then Magic ever will be, but the components are more static.
- D&D: WotC again. The open source idea works, but only because it is a famous product as a base and it is a RPG (The game masters need to adjust the game for the group anyway).
For several of years I have worked on a design for the ultimate mega (all included) fantasy board game world game, but it always fails in the size of the project.
To take down the size I have divided the game into several modules. Each module adds something new. Still the game become too big and in the end there were thousands of components and possibilities for one board game.
I have a cardgame that works exactly in this way and with the 8th generation of the game, the 3 first modules works fine together. I have managed to get that game to work but not the board game.
The next step where to make the game driven by scenarios. The game become more interesting but the setup time was too much.
This game have some scenarios written and some early rules, but no component has ever been build and all game tests has been done in the design and via reviews.
The next set of games where table top game. I have tried to use the same base mechanism for:
- A skirmish game.
- A major battle game (like DBM)
- A tabletop card game (the cards are more like units and not treated like cards.
All 3 types have been tested (and a new test will be done this weekend). The problem is that I always try to include things like unit-strength, Armor and skills as the major concept. After some experiment (they has been in the loop for at least 5 years), I discovered that the base mechanism should be based around discipline and leadership. When that was done, the same base rules could be used for all 3 types of games.
"The dungeon crawlers should be easier." I believed that this was the same game seen from different angles. How wrong I was.
In this set of games there were: an ordinary dungeon crawler game, a dungeon crawler where each player play a group of adventures and dungeon masters for the others, a game where the players shall cooperate(and backstab), and the last game where all players where dungeon masters for one group.
The problem was not the actual components (a skill, a monster, a trap and things like that could be reused in all set of games). Instead was the problem the players and how they use the components (Yes the players were the problem).
I solved it with different set of cards. Depending on your role in the game, you got access to one or several cards. I also had to develop a method when and how the players could play there cards (you don’t want all players to add dragons for the adventures in the first room they enter). I'm still working on this problem. Some of the ideas will also be tested this weekend.
The last set of games where the civ like game. On those games I have failed. The games are more alike then other types of games but the problem is more the basics (currency, world, and so on). To be able to add components from a civilization game into an economic game where you build up your own industry are a challenge.
As I see it: Dungeon crawlers and skirmish tabletop games could be combined with the same basic rules. Different tabletop games could also be combined. Ideas from tabletop could be added to civ/economic/epic games. With all combination and possibility to move components between the games I will have my ultimate mega (all included) fantasy board game world game.
My next steps are:
- To create a base for a world and how it should be handled. This world will also be a time line included (I like fantasy steam punk). Everything will be easier if the same base currency, the same way to handle troops (and so on) is introduced. (This is not a new Middle-earth project. More like a check list).
- Set up a base mechanism for haw to handle cards, random factors and so on.
- Create some unique games based on the basics (probably convert some of my old games).
- Add modules that could be used by all or several of the games.
This will probably take another year or so. Then I will do a follow up, save the games worth saving and then start all over again (this time for real).
I would like to play 2 games at the same time (with the same time scale) where the outcome of one game will have impact on the other game. For example both play a game on politics in a world and at the same time play the same time frame for a city in that word.
// Johan
I don’t think that will be a hit either, but say that you have the possibility. You can play the games separated from each other or put them together in a huge campaign.
If you expand your "main game" you could also use the same expansion in the other game (it is not the same game, and it does not have the same mechanism or theme).
Or you can do it the other way around. Create a frame where the game shall fit in and then create separated games with the frame as base. When you then make "add-on" to the game it will add something new and it could fit into several of games.
I can give you an example from the computer world. I have a word program and Illustrator in my computer. If I add a printer, both Word and Illustrator is prepared to handle printers, and the printer does not care where from the printings order arrive. The printer can also be moved to another computer without Word and Illustrator and I can get another printer for special printouts (photos or similar). Everything here is interchangeable and I can add or remove components without changing the basics.
What I need to do is specify the interfaces to components and not the actual games.
Deep inside, I know that the mega game will never be done, but I still working on it because it always gives me new angles and new games are spawned when I test new mechanism and special ideas.
Otherwise I totally agree with you that this could be a major problem.
How about a dungeon crawler/fantasy game that's kinda modeled after the Diablo 2 computer game where there is a large world view board (cities, forests, maybe even continents) where the band of heroes trapses. Then they can go down into a dungeon on this map and that is a completely different board (using the same ruleset, and also probably modular so it's somewhat different every time) to explore and find X item in the storyline or gain XP.
I could see these even being detailed enough to warrent splitting the action up into different gaming sessions so it's not too much at once (almost like RPG sessions). So Tuesday night your heroes journey across the landscape - with various enounters - and finally reach their destination. Then Wednesday night you break out the dungeon board and find your way to the damsel in distress. So the whole thing would have to be mission/story driven which might not do much for replay value... (kinda like Heroquest wasnt quite the same the 2nd time around)
Here is the problem: My ideas are divided into 2 different groups. One group is what you describes (have several games that could be combined with different layers). That could be real interesting as version of RPG (since the games are not static). I like these ideas and have tried to implement these in some war-games.
The other group is to use the same components for several games. Example:
I have a dungeon crawler game for children of the age of 6+. It’s a fixed game board, all monster are defeated if you have the right tools. Its an easy game that have some strategy and some luck. The only goal is to get out from the cave in time with treasures (avoid interacting with the trolls and dragons). You get an extra module tat will add spiders to your dungeon.
When the child turns 10 he/she get a new game (within the same dungeon crawler theme). The base game is changed and there is a complete new game with new rules (hack and slash). Still the spider module could be moved to the new game.
The same Spider module could ten be used as add on in a war-game, in a civ game (don’t ask me how), in a RPG and so on.
My first tought was, can I manage to use the real duel master cards with these 2 games. The answer was partially yes. I won't go in the details, but from what I understand, I have raised the folowing rules :
Do not make detailed, specific rules or stats, allow the information to be reinterpreted. For example, in DM, some abilities can tap cards. But in a game like stratego, you cannot tap unit. But you could say that in this game, all taping effect will instead be replaced by a reveal unit effect. Another example, the double breaker ability will make the unit attack 2 opponent unit with 1 move.
Do not make too much stats. In duel master you only have the casting cost, strength and creature type. If you have too much stats, you might end up with useless stats for your game. In the duel master board game, the strength of the creature represent the movement factor. The games also include dices, I think fighting with dices instead of a determinist aproach could bring the game to a new level.
I think that Do not make too much stats. is the keyword. It should be possible to do a game with no numeric stats at all. It should be possible to add texts that in some games are flavor texts and in other games it is a stat:
Simple example: The Empire Spiders is a huge, fast creature that will attack you when you least expect. Look up for the poison gad.
// Johan