Skip to Content
 

help with Martial Arts Game

22 replies [Last post]
dete
Offline
Joined: 12/31/1969

Trying to make a martial arts games,
basically players will have certain characters they purchase
like MARVEL HEROCLIX
but without the base dial thing.

characters will be martial arts people.

I want:
different styles (Karate, Kung Fu, Ninjitsu, Tae Kwon Do, etc.)
different weapons (nunchaku, sword, spear, staff, mace, etc.)
different moves (uppercut, flying knee, tiger claw, etc.)

the fighting will be SUPER simple, the basis will be just rolling dice.
movement will be super simple also much like a simplified Chess.

I want people to be able to combine the above options.

so at the weakest you will have a guy with just one style.
a stronger guy will have several styles at his disposal.
or a guy who has a weapon is stronger,
guy who has the moves will be even stronger, perhaps they
should just be special moves, like fireball or a charging uppercut.

it needs to be simple and playable by 6 year olds.
any suggestions?

Nando
Offline
Joined: 07/22/2008
Re: help with Martial Arts Game

dete wrote:
it needs to be simple and playable by 6 year olds.
any suggestions?
Play Munchkin Fu?

Kreitler
Offline
Joined: 12/31/1969
Re: help with Martial Arts Game

dete wrote:
Trying to make a martial arts games,
basically players will have certain characters they purchase
like MARVEL HEROCLIX
but without the base dial thing.

characters will be martial arts people.

I want:
different styles (Karate, Kung Fu, Ninjitsu, Tae Kwon Do, etc.)
different weapons (nunchaku, sword, spear, staff, mace, etc.)
different moves (uppercut, flying knee, tiger claw, etc.)

...

it needs to be simple and playable by 6 year olds.
any suggestions?

Hey Dete,

That's a tall order. Combining styles, moves, and weapons ratchets up the complexity pretty quickly. Even Munchkin Fu -- a great suggestion for a source game -- is beyond most 6 year olds.

My suggestion would be to make a super-simple base game with an add-on pack that includes more complex features.

For example, in the basic game you get a pack of character cards and associated miniatures. The character cards list color-coded styles and modifiers. For example:

"Bob the Ninja"
Taijitsu (the name for the ninja hand-to-hand fighting arts) -- listed in black.
Weapon -- Katana (listed in white)

"Dale the Kung Fu Master"
White Crane Kung Fu (white)
Mantis Style (red)
Tiger Style (yellow)

"Phil the Black Belt"
Tae Kwon Do (blue)

etc.

Every character has 3 "hit points" (a character's current status is shown by numbers 0-3, one on each edge of its card. You just rotate the card so that the current number of hit points is at the edge).

Every character can move 3 squares during his turn.

Every character can attack once per turn, any time during its move, as long as there is an orthogonally adjacent character. Once you attack, your move is over.

To resolve an attack, you roll 3 color dice. You score 1 point of damage for each color that matches one of the color-coded powers on the attacking character card.

That's pretty much it for the basic system. 6 year olds should be able to grasp that, though it still might tax their attention spans.

To expand on this simple framework, you could introduce "action decks" with cards like:

"Crane Stance" -- play on any character with a white style. Reduce damage by 1 point for each attack.

"Pole arm" -- play on any character with a weapon skill. This character may attack diagonally adjacent characters.

"Dim Mak" -- discard during any black-technique attack. Double damage from black pips that round.

You'd need some additional rules: never more than 1 stance at a time. Never more than one technique used in a single attack. Never more than one weapon in use by a character at one time.

You can increase the complexity and depth of the game by introducing various "deck building" mechanics.

The "Action Decks" are too involved for 6 year olds, but should give older players a reason to get the bare-bones version of the game.

You're working on a neat idea. I can't wait to see how it develops.

Kreitler

dete
Offline
Joined: 12/31/1969
help with Martial Arts Game

thanx for the replies, I've never played munchkin Fu, but I checked
it out at bggeek. interesting.

Thanx for the ideas, the cards can definitely increase the
complexity and depth of the game. It's a nice scape goat.

this is what I'm thinking so far.

Basic fight = by dice.

BUT, let's say you got
1. Stand up Strikers (Kickboxers, Kyokushin Karate, Boxers)
2. Clinch Fighters (dirtyboxing, greco roman, Thaiboxers)
3. Grapplers (Brazilian jiu-jitsu, Sambo, freestyle wrestling)

the formula is:
3>1
2>3
1>2

ok so like rock paper scissors.

further more, I can add this to other pieces:
Northern style - always defeats southern style in north territory
Southern style - always defeats northern style in south territory

northern style includes (Wu Shu, Crane fist, Hungar)
southern styles includes (Wing Chun, snake, dragon)

If a northern style fighter fights a Kickboxer they would just roll dice.
so if unapplicable to each other they just roll dice.

NetWolf
Offline
Joined: 12/31/1969
help with Martial Arts Game

Quote:
Brazilian jiu-jitsu

That would be Capoiera and it's definately NOT a grappling martial art. It's more acrobatic than kick boxing, though they are in a similar line.

Your Greco-Roman should be a grappler style since that is ENTIRELY grappling. You also might want to incorporate Krav Mga (Not sure how to spell it). It's a soviet martial arts whose emphasis is on efficiency of moves and power.

OutsideLime
Offline
Joined: 12/31/1969
help with Martial Arts Game

Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and Capoiera are two different fighting styles. VERY different. Maybe this will jog your memory: Royce Gracie from the original Ultimate Fighter tournaments used Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Eddy Gordo from Tekken 3 used Capoiera.

Here's a web page with many many fighting styles described from all over the world. Check down the left side of the page.

here

~Josh

dete
Offline
Joined: 12/31/1969
help with Martial Arts Game

NetWolf wrote:
Quote:
Brazilian jiu-jitsu

That would be Capoiera and it's definately NOT a grappling martial art. It's more acrobatic than kick boxing, though they are in a similar line.

Your Greco-Roman should be a grappler style since that is ENTIRELY grappling. You also might want to incorporate Krav Mga (Not sure how to spell it). It's a soviet martial arts whose emphasis is on efficiency of moves and power.

hey thanx for the concern,

like already mentioned, Capoeira & BJJ are 2 different styles.
your right Capoeira is very acrobatic and actually kickboxing is not.
I mentioned Greco-Roman for clinch, because that is what they are
known for compared to free-style wrestling where you can shoot
below the waist.
you are correct that they are both grappling styles, but
grappling I meant as in ground only and sure Greco guys
do that as well, there are many overlaps with all this,
so thanx for pointing that out.
I can put Aikido as a defense only style but someone may argue
that it has attacks, I mean I got to stereo type it to make the game,
if they do not agree or it bothers them, I guess this where the
cards come in.
Take the video game Street Fighter for example:
Ryu & Ken = Shotokan Karate
Blanka = Capoeira
Chun Li = Wu Shu Kung Fu
Zangief = Sambo
Dhalsim = Kalaripayattu
E.Honda = Sumo
Guile = Special Forces Hand to hand Combat

I can disagree with many of the moves they do, stances they take,
etc.
Krav Maga is an Isralie style by the way, not Soviet.
thanx for the responses though!

Kreitler
Offline
Joined: 12/31/1969
help with Martial Arts Game

dete wrote:
BUT, let's say you got
1. Stand up Strikers (Kickboxers, Kyokushin Karate, Boxers)
2. Clinch Fighters (dirtyboxing, greco roman, Thaiboxers)
3. Grapplers (Brazilian jiu-jitsu, Sambo, freestyle wrestling)

the formula is:
3>1
2>3
1>2

ok so like rock paper scissors.

That's nice and sleek and good for young kids. There are several arts that don't break down into these clean divisions, though. For example, Taijitsu combines techniques from all three of these categories. Maybe styles such as these have the "disadvantage" that they can never automatically beat any other style and the advantage that they can never automatically be beaten?

K.

dete
Offline
Joined: 12/31/1969
help with Martial Arts Game

Kreitler wrote:
dete wrote:
BUT, let's say you got
1. Stand up Strikers (Kickboxers, Kyokushin Karate, Boxers)
2. Clinch Fighters (dirtyboxing, greco roman, Thaiboxers)
3. Grapplers (Brazilian jiu-jitsu, Sambo, freestyle wrestling)

the formula is:
3>1
2>3
1>2

ok so like rock paper scissors.

That's nice and sleek and good for young kids. There are several arts that don't break down into these clean divisions, though. For example, Taijitsu combines techniques from all three of these categories. Maybe styles such as these have the "disadvantage" that they can never automatically beat any other style and the advantage that they can never automatically be beaten?

K.
like you said in Tai-jitsu would not normally be part of
that kind of group which is MMA.
I can put Tai-jitsu with let's say in a group of it's own,
Koga, Iga, Togakure-ryu, and some other ninjitsu styles
and create a system for the ninjitsu guys.
if a ninja fought a grappler then we would just roll the dice and
not worry about the special rules part.
is this too confusing?
basically if the stuff doesn't apply to your piece, then
it's just roll the dice for fighting.

Hedge-o-Matic
Hedge-o-Matic's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/30/2008
help with Martial Arts Game

As someone whose studied Japanese martial arts for... (gak!) fifteen years (man, I'm getting old), I've got a different view of martial arts than that fostered by movies and games, so bear with me here.

The main reason I haven't done a lot with martial arts in games is because what people expect (based on movies) and what I generally stress (based on practice) are very different. But even assuming you want a movie-style marital arts game, consider this:

Consider the fact that unarmed styles are almost always developed with an eye toward emergency use. Generally, nobody used Jujistu unless they had previously been disarmed, and somehow not immediately killed. Historically, use of unarmed training was restricted to keeping from getting killed long enough to grab a weapon. If unarmed combat's so great, why'd we develop weapons in the first place? Weapons should rock all over someone without another weapon.

Grappling, though hyped in the UFC, is a tough, dangerous business. Even training in a dojo, no matter how strenuous, doesn't include the fact that the rea ground is covered with sharp objects that become weapons, grit that ends up in eyes, and asphalt head-slamming surfaces. Grappling also involves strikes, not just pins and chokes, like wrestling. Also, humans have a really terrible bite. Grappling is not for the faint.

Throws and joint-locking aren't something that just happens. You can't just walk up to most people in a fight and throw them around. Realistically, these techniques must get past the reflexive defenses of people. This can be anything from a quick strike, blocking their own attacks, or switching suddenly from one sort of movement to another. Once thrown (assuming the subject is in any condition to continue), grappling begins, with the person thrown being at a severe disadvantage. Proper training teaches pins, chokes or jointlocks from every throw. Once a joint is locked, expect to lose it in a real fight.

More later.

dete
Offline
Joined: 12/31/1969
help with Martial Arts Game

thanx for the reply,
but as mentioned this game will be playable to 6 year olds
so it won't be so realistic.

it's just for fun. Don't worry I won't be disrespectful towards MA.

scopa
Offline
Joined: 09/29/2008
help with Martial Arts Game

How about different number sided dice to represent different strengths? So the weakest could use 1d4, next weakest 1d6 and so on?

dete
Offline
Joined: 12/31/1969
help with Martial Arts Game

scopa wrote:
How about different number sided dice to represent different strengths? So the weakest could use 1d4, next weakest 1d6 and so on?

yes I have been leaning towards that idea for level up a character.
so the bottom line is that it's not what style you are but
how much you build up your character :)

At a higher level you can roll 2 regular dices,
and maybe another piece will require a 12 sided dice,
small difference, but there is a difference between the 2 dices,
for example the lowest number you can roll with 2 regular dices is a 2
not a 1 like the 12 sided dice. What about three 4 sided dice?
lowest number is a 3.
so maybe if you put in the time to level up instead of let's say
purchasing a strong character there are benefits such as this.
spoon fed vs hard working
thanx

Hedge-o-Matic
Hedge-o-Matic's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/30/2008
help with Martial Arts Game

dete wrote:

it's just for fun. Don't worry I won't be disrespectful towards MA.

Oh, not a worry. My point was more about how fluid and flexible the martial arts are. Most games seem to present techniques as if particular strikes are discrete skills. While this is true, to some extent, after a while, when you know how to strike in enough ways, opportunities are "visible" to you as they present themselves. The same goes for throws, grappling, and locks. Each of these should have an offensive and defensive component.

This makes the game simpler for younger players, since the detail level is lower. But I'd recommend a "flow of action" sort of approach. Like I mentioned before, if you want to throw someone around, you need to get a certain relationship to them, where you can move them and they can't use coordinated resistance. So what could you do? How about a quick strike, getting them to flinch back, or a feint that causes them to block, giving you an arm to work with?

These sorts of details can be shown with a diagram like this:

(D3) Distance 3 --> D2
(D2) Distance 2 --> D1
(D1) Distance 1 -->SO, SD
(SO) Strike offensive --> SO, T
(SD) Strike defensive ---> SO,L
(L) Lock --> G, T, B*
(T) Throw --> G
(G) Grappling --> L, CH*
(B*) Break
(CH*) Choke

This diagram could be different for each martial art, if you wanted. As you can see, the player begins at distance 3. This gives the fighter no useful options but to close to distance 2, and then 1. Weapon-users might be able to attack at range 2, but our fighter has to close to Distance 1 before being able to strike or block.

A successful punch or kick (Strike Offensive) could either lead to more striking, or a throw. If the fighter has a d10 in Throw, but knows their opponant has a d12 in throw and a d20 in grappling, they may want to keep striking. If their opponent is a striking sort of fighter, like a boxer or Mau Thai sort, they may opt for the throw, hoping to grapple as soon as possible.

The flow above shows two possile "special" moves, a Break and a Choke. These are just examples. This also doesn't say anything about how damage should work. Just about the transition from one tactic to another.

larienna
larienna's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/28/2008
help with Martial Arts Game

I also have a martial art game in my game draft list. In my game, each player has a set of customizable cards and they fight each other. There is no board in my game. It looks more like the WWF Rawdeal CCG.

There is various information of the cards but one of the info is a letter ranging from A to E. Moves can be chained together by either making series of letter ex: A.B.C, C.D.E, etc. This create combos. Power move are created by combining the same letters ex: D+D, A+A. Which mean that could make a 2 move combo with a power move using a serie like : C.D+D.

I won't get in all the details but for example, some special effect cannot take effect by them self, you need 2 or more cards. For example, if you have the ability "Knockdown 1/2" on a card, you need another card in the series with the same ability for the "knockdown" ability to take effect.

There is also counter move card from where you can start making combo. I am thinking on an initiative and priority system, there is also a gauge that can be filled up to perform special move. In other words, I really want to make it like a fighting video game.

Still, I am not sure if I am going to place unique move names on each card since I don't know much about martial art. If I do put name, some letter combos could seem weird if you tried to do exactly the same move in real life. I don't want to make a martial art simulator.

dete
Offline
Joined: 12/31/1969
help with Martial Arts Game

Ok my game is not a martial arts simulator,
I think what your describing Hedge is a bit too complex.

And Larienna's game is still a bit more complex than mine.

simple dice rolling.
hundreds of collectible pieces.

lots of interesting bits & pieces of info.

Larienna you say you don't really know much about MA but you want
to make a fighting a game, maybe it's better if you look at something
more like Dragon Ball Z then.

Street Fighter has a lot of good ideas I can tell it was designed by
someone who had some knowledge of MA.

larienna
larienna's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/28/2008
help with Martial Arts Game

I don't mind having an "anime" style game. I am just not sure if I am going to place supernatural stuff like fireballs and hadokens.

Like I said in a PM, I am going to use a point system like in the Video game Fighter's Destiny on the N64, which will make the game somewhat look like a sport. But I do not necessarily want something more serious because there is a point system.

Of course, I want to make a generic game system that could be played in different ways like: tag team, survivor, etc.

From what I can see now, all the cards will be made with permutations of numbers, letters and special ability. There won't be many unique rules, because since it it a direct CCG, the area of effect of a card is really limited (hand, deck, discard, played cards). In WWF rawdeal, most unique text on cards will only make you draw, lose or recover cards, there is not much possibilities.

But even if I only use stats permutations for creating cards, I must find a way to make the deck creation interesting. From now, I have 3 customizable card game ideas that use stats permutation and the deck configuration is always boring.

dete
Offline
Joined: 12/31/1969
help with Martial Arts Game

make deck creation interesting?

the cards would be like arsenals right?

in some MA we call our techniques, tools,
its human nature to collect tools.

so deck creation should be the funnest part.
in some games I enjoy the setup & anticipation more
than the game itself.

Some characters in street fighter:
Ryu = well rounded fighter
Dhalsim = extendable limbs, long range fighter
Zangief = strong but slow, close range fighter

lets same I'm using Ryu,
when I fight Dhalsim, I need to close the distance.
when I fight Zangief I need to keep my distance.

this captures the essence of challenge matches.
the age old mythology of which style is better.
And what its like to fight tough guys from all over the world.
Styles you have never seen before, no weight classes,
just fighting. damn its genius no wonder it did so well.

TheReluctantGeneral
Offline
Joined: 12/31/1969
help with Martial Arts Game

Um, here's a way out idea...

The game's for six year olds right? And involves simple dice rolls that resolve according to a paper scissors rock (PSR) mechanism?

Well why not have the little scamps literally play real PSR? Invent three physical MA moves or however many you need (say 'chop', 'block' and 'punch').

Then have the cards/styles whatever resolve which move beats what for a given match up.

Adding a physical aspect to the game has to appeal to little kids. And if you added more 'moves' in advanced packs, then they have something to learn and get good at. You could even appoint one kid a referee who judges whether a 'move' was performed legally.

Just in case anyone misunderstands this, I'm not suggesting they hit one another, just invent some cool MA moves to replace the familiar palm/fist/fingers moves of the classic PSR.

dete
Offline
Joined: 12/31/1969
help with Martial Arts Game

TheReluctantGeneral wrote:
Um, here's a way out idea...


thanx I like the idea, but that would be for a different game
that would really not be bad at all, definitely worth exploring
thanx.

Kaltros
Offline
Joined: 12/31/1969
help with Martial Arts Game

dete wrote:
thanx for the reply,
but as mentioned this game will be playable to 6 year olds
so it won't be so realistic.

If you're not worried about realism, I would suggest the possibility of not using RLMA (real life martial arts) as your basis for combat. Shucking that particular restriction would allow you to define the combat style ("Chuck Yu Fu is only useful against grappling styles" which can reenforce your Rock/Scissors/Paper win/loss conditions) and not leave any confusion, anywhere, that this is a kid's game.

The reason I suggest this is two-fold.
1.) 6 year olds won't care if the styles aren't real. Look at Sponge-Bob... lives in a giant ruttin' pineapple.
2.) If you utilize real-life styles, you will be pitting your interpretation against the preconceived notions of everyone who picks up the game. By making your own styles, and perhaps giving them cute names, you automatically place your game outside of the realm of "real life" and remind people that it's for fun... without the need for a written apology anywhere in the rules.
Summarized: it's an automatic caveat that let's you do what you want and nobody will mind.

Just a point. Might have already been made.

dete
Offline
Joined: 12/31/1969
help with Martial Arts Game

Kaltros wrote:
dete wrote:
thanx for the reply,
but as mentioned this game will be playable to 6 year olds
so it won't be so realistic.

excellent suggestion, will use it. thanx!!

dete
Offline
Joined: 12/31/1969
help with Martial Arts Game

thank u guys for your replies suggestions, concern & help

I have to put it on hold because I just can't solve the problem
which really is my unwillingness to compromise.

has to be a simple dice based game combat.

has to include styles (fantasy reality based)
has to include moves
also want characters
also want weapons

one of the things that really allowed me to progress was to have
a fighting system where different rules of battle can take place in 1
game. Sounds complex but is really easy.

so anyway unfortunately I'm at a complete blank here.
I got some ideas for other games I'm gonna work on.
Thanx. btw I think I was working on a robot game after making my
CCG + choose your own adventure book cardgame.
that robot game lead me to this martial arts game. so its evolving
slowly. I'm retaining all this info because this something I really want
to complete.

Syndicate content


forum | by Dr. Radut