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Hex vs. Grid

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Anonymous

Would love to use more HEX in my concepts, but I always end up banging my head against a wall when it comes to something as simple as wanting to define/wall off a quadrilateral buiding on a map.

If you draw a wall (straight bold line) across the HEX map you are left with those annoying little half HEX things every other space... I mean can I move onto those dreaded things or not... if I can, then why not just do the whole board/map in all half HEX thingys! (What!?). My miniatures often want to occupy those half HEX things with the big wall going through the center of them... but it just doesnt seem right. Some of them even taunt me by just barely putting their tippy toe on the half HEX, but then they pull them back into the glorious full sized HEX really quick, as it should be.

On top of this hexmare, where does it make sense to slap a sweet little door icon down... oh what to do.

I'm straight up OG (Old Grid) and very new to the world of HEX, so I hope I am overthinking this and missing something.

Does any one have a slick way of dealing with this issue?

sedjtroll
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Hex vs. Grid

Your 'quadilateral' building doesn't have to have 'straight' walls drawn with a 'ruler'... *shrug* you could have the walls follow the lines on the hex map.

Anonymous
Hex vs. Grid

Hmmmm... in a word... "Yuck!"

But don't runaway, your addition is welcomed, I am just curious is this the answer, is this what hex based games do if they want a building?

If its the case I will accept that, and go right back to Grids, no worries.

*wink*

Hedge-o-Matic
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Hex vs. Grid

Well, there's certainly no reason your game couldn't use half-hexes all the time. Full hexes will just have the same terrain in both sides. And the split between the two halves need not always be parralel. They could split the hex in any of the three ways, as needed. That would divide your space into units as needed, and allow the flat-sided buildings you crave.

Anonymous
Hex vs. Grid

Let me know if you have time to scan and post one of your legendary *sketches* Hedge... I'm intrigued but not quite grasping it.

phpbbadmin
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Hex vs. Grid

Brahmulus wrote:
Let me know if you have time to scan and post one of your legendary *sketches* Hedge... I'm intrigued but not quite grasping it.

Why exactly do you feel the need to use hexes? Have you considered staggered squares instead? Then again, that might introduce a whole new set of problems...

-Darke

Anonymous
Hex vs. Grid

As i said I'm a square grid guy at heart, but hexes allow more pieces to surround and come into base to base with others, which is more appealing for combat situations of course. Hexes also eliminate weird and shakey diagonal movement rules and sticky situations like "am I adjacent or not"

But if I cant put a nice and normal square J-Mart in the center of Hex town, well, I think I'm over it.

A game board with HEXES also, sadly, adds to the *scare non-hardcore gamers away* factor... which is a negative to consider.

Staggered squares? again... intrigued...

phpbbadmin
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Hex vs. Grid

Brahmulus wrote:

Staggered squares? again... intrigued...

Picture a brick wall. However, instead of the bricks being lenthwise rectangles, imagine theme as squares. That's a staggered square pattern.. Any one square will have 6 squares adjacent to it just like a hex. In reality, a normal square grid also has this property but there are no 'corner to corner only' touches. Each adjacent square will touch the home square by at least half a square. All the fun of hexes without the hexes. Keep in mind, the staggered pattern may be just as scarey if not more scarier to non-gamers than it's hex counterpart.

-Darke

Anonymous
Hex vs. Grid

It also does not alleviate the half of a square/hex problem.

http://fitz.jsr.com/roleplay/props/mapping.html

lordpog
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Hex vs. Grid

All this assumes that the wall has zero thickness.

If it was fatter the wall could take up a significant fraction of the hexes it crosses, say 1/3, so you are only left with 1/3 hex to try and stand in, which doesnt look so awkward.

This would only use a negligible amount of the edge of the other (non bisected) hexes (10% ?) where minis could comfortably stand.

Building corners occur on the hex vertices (optimal) or you could sacrifice a whole hex if neccessary.

lordpog
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Hex vs. Grid

Correction:

Ive just thought about what I just posted, and realised the corners wont work on vertices- they have to be centre-hex.

p

Hedge-o-Matic
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Hex vs. Grid

I personally am fond of Penrose tiles, and a penrose-and-a-half will solve these pesky problems for you, creating a double grid:

Penrose and a half:

Combo Grid:

This should allow you sharp corners, and a hex grid to boot. You won't need the double-grid everywhere, but simply allow all pieces to occupy a single quadrant.

Pt314
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Hex vs. Grid

Well, that board has the same topology of a square grid board. Each quadrant is touching 4 quadrants over edges, and another 4 over corners.

I say use real penrose tiles, that would make an interesting board, the non-periodic factor of the board would be pretty crazy.

Anonymous
Hex vs. Grid

Okay these are some great responses, and thanks for your hard work as well (links and diagrams... reviewing all).

I guess what I am most amazed with, is my question did not have a simple answer like I thought it might "Oh gee you idiot, game X that has been out for 10 years uses square buildings all the time"

Amazed.

This tells me wargamers and *Action Hexers* (I just made that up right now, cool isn't it? ahem...) DO not battle indoors, esp creeping along walls very much, do they.

Hedge-o-Matic
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Hex vs. Grid

Pt314 wrote:
Well, that board has the same topology of a square grid board. Each quadrant is touching 4 quadrants over edges, and another 4 over corners.

I say use real penrose tiles, that would make an interesting board, the non-periodic factor of the board would be pretty crazy.

Yup, it's the same topology. but if what you want are hexes with straight edges...

I've designed games using penrose-shaped sections as board pieces. It can get pretty strange, but I like it. This board element tends to overwhelm the rest of the gameplay, however, odd as that might seem, considering it's just a simple shape, but there you go. And a penrose-shaped space wouldn't solve the thread's main topic: buildings on a hex map.

Anonymous
Hex vs. Grid

I spose i could go with grid, get my buildings and impose the almighty orthogonally adjacent rule from on high...

Anonymous
Hex vs. Grid

Here is an interesting solution (yes i still thirst)

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/58166

doesnt really solve my issues of the funny half hexes, but sure clears up any problems once inside teh buildings... anyway thought this very unique.

I still must say, in my prototyping i am strongly diggin the idea someone proposed of only being able to fire on a target that is in a straight row or diagonal from the attacker... really considering it... as far as using a grid and dealing with LoS in a simple down and dirty way...

larienna
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Square grid are not evil

I think using square grid is OK if you take some consideration inthe rules. The biggest problem is generally diagonal movement or distance calculation.

The best solution is to count diagonals as 1.5 movement ( the exact official number is 1.4 ) in this way, units won't move faster in diagonal.

Calculating range can be done the same way. You count each square and when you make a diagonal movement you add 1.5.

Fianlly, you just have to set if the final movement must be round down or up to the max movement. For example, can a 5.5 movement be legal for a max of 5 movement.

If you use an hexmap of squares ( like in the old Romance of the 3 kingdom games on the NES and SNES ), building will fit correctly on verticals but you will get half squares(hex) on horizontal lines.

Anonymous
Hex vs. Grid

I have used the method described by Larienna (cost of diagonal move = 1.5). and it works pretty well. Just to make things easier and get rid of decimal values, I multiply all costs by two. Therefore, a straight move costs 2, while a diagonal one requires 3.

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