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A little advice, please!!!

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Anonymous

I'm looking to create a game with fantasy elements, and I'm at the point of considering the direction I should take it in.

On the one hand, I like the immediacy of a structured design and simpler rules, but I notice that the popular games in this genre are based around strategies and have rule books two feet thick! There must be something in it!

I want to have a collectable card element to it as well. Any thoughts on what the pros and cons are?

(I'm very new at this, by the way!!)

Zzzzz
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A little advice, please!!!

First I have to ask, how thick/deep do you want the theme of fantasy to be presented in the game?

I only ask since you can get a decent fantasy themed game designed, that does not require a rule book two feet thick. I think you are seeing the two feet thick books of an RPG game. Honestly, you dont have to go there to create a good fantasy game.

Not sure what you are asking pros and cons about, the fantasy theme?, the collectable card element?

The colletable card element, in my opinion, is very very over done. The market has so many of these games around. I think finding a unique way of using the collectable card element in another game that is not strictly cards might change the outlook I have.

The fantasy theme, many fantasy games exists, ppl seem to enjoy a good fantasy game.

brb I will post more in a few minutes.

Anonymous
A little advice, please!!!

I take your point on the cards. They have been done to death recently, but then it could be argued that so have RPGs (thanks for nailing that one for me, by the way). I was always going to think of something a bit more leftfield in terms of their use; I just hate not flexing the creative muscle!

I want to come up with fresh concepts, and fresh new ways of using existing concepts. Lofty goals, sure, but always aim high, eh?

I was thinking pros and cons of using cards as opposed to score sheets/character development sheets, or as opposed to other ways of generating events.

Maybe somebody could give me examples of successful games that have used cards and/or other methods. You may notice I can't get past cards right now!

Anonymous
A little advice, please!!!

You will also want to consider the scope of your game. Will it be some kind of exploration game? Combat oriented? Many have come out recently that have done very well in the marketplace, for example Runebound, War of the Ring, HeroScape (though the fantasy elements are blended with other genres).

Knowing that you want cards should be secondary to the scope of what the players will be doing in the game. Do you want a fixed board for players to explore that uses cards for monsters adn treasure? Or a random board that is created from tiles as the players explore it?

Quote:
On the one hand, I like the immediacy of a structured design and simpler rules...

I'm not sure if by this you mean that you like the board game aspect as opposed to the RPG aspect (not a fixed system in the sense that a board game would be). Please share a little more of your concept if you can.

Zzzzz
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A little advice, please!!!

Sorry I did not get back sooner, but it looks like SiskNY game some good games to look at for reference.

One thing I would tell you to do is figure out your player goals. That is figure out what you want the players to be trying to accomplish in the game. This is the heart of a game, it is the reason your players are playing.

Part of listing the player goals will help you to figure out if you want a co-operative game or a player vs player game. If your player goals require your players to work together to accomplish a goal, you are looking at a co-operative game (check out the recent Lord of The Rings games for thos style of game).

Once you figure out your player goals, you can start to think about mechanics to use for actually allowing the players to accomplish the goals you have set in the game.

larienna
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RPG with cards

There is a few games that I know which combine cards and RPG element.

Dragon Lance 5th Age : This is RPG that use cards instead of dices. I am not sure if all cards are unique like in a collectible card. The idea is that you have a set of card in hand, and when you would normally play a die, you play a card. It allows you to save your cards for later.

Hero quest : This is a famous game where you can find on cards spells, equipment, artifacts and monsters.

I also tought of doing a character sheet less RPG by using cards instead to record the character's equipment and abilities. There is still a few problems like HP/Mp and gold recording. Still, I made once, for D&D a card where I use a paperclip to keep track HP/MP. This can be a good alternative.

Hedge-o-Matic
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A little advice, please!!!

Well, you could also go at it from the viewpoint of what you want your cards to do for you. What aspect of cards do you want to exploit? Do you like the fact they can be held and played at will, unlike dice results? Do you want to use their ability to be grouped or shuffled? What about cards abilities changing when grouped with other cards, or static "hands" like in poker? There's also the usefulness of cards in bidding to consider. Cards can do a lot of things in a game, mechanically. Don't limit yourself to mere "monster deck", "treasure deck" format, unless that's all you want/need your cards to do for your game.

Many good games are based around a given mechanic, or a simple useage of the bits in the game. Sid Sackson proved this method works well, as does Knizia nowadays. You can paper a theme over a good mechanic at any time.

Johan
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A little advice, please!!!

quones wrote:
I'm looking to create a game with fantasy elements, and I'm at the point of considering the direction I should take it in.

As it looks like you are not sure about the direction. I would sit down and write down what I wanted to do. Make a list of the things that should be included. Then remove the things that are not necessary for the game. Try to make the list (and the rules as simple as possible and build from that).

quones wrote:
On the one hand, I like the immediacy of a structured design and simpler rules, but I notice that the popular games in this genre are based around strategies and have rule books two feet thick! There must be something in it!

Personally I would use the KISS rule (Keep It Simple Stupid) on the rules. The complexity can come from cards, markers, strategies or scenarios. The rules should be simple.
I have a fantasy game that I working on that I want to include everything. Each time I sit down and work with the game (one or two times per year) I realize that there are so many problem to solve and the rules grows... but each time I'm working with the game I got ideas for other new games. The Big fantasy game (named: The time of the Dragons) has several small spin-off games.
…and don’t look at other games on the market as more then references. Create the game you want to play.

quones wrote:
I want to have a collectable card element to it as well. Any thoughts on what the pros and cons are?

Hedge-o-Matic wrote:
Well, you could also go at it from the viewpoint of what you want your cards to do for you.

I agree with Hedge-o-Matic and this is the main question you should ask you self for all components and rules.

quones wrote:
(I'm very new at this, by the way!!)

To create a new game from idea to a completed game with rules and components take time. Don't force it and Good luck.

// Johan

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