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Rinse, refine and repeat

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SVan
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Joined: 10/02/2008

While designing my latest game, called OverStock, which is basically a shipping and receiving game (although I prefer to think that it's more pure chaos than anything) I was thinking about the mechanics that are in it and this is what I've been thinking about.

The mechanics of this game I've used before, but I've changed a small little thing in them to make it fit the game. The turn order is very similar to my last game I made, but still somewhat different, and it uses VP like my first game. If I studied them all harder, I could probably think of some other things (well, another thing I think of is the fact that I'm using another mechanic that deals with colors, which is something I did with Nova which was on the GDW, and I'm also using colors in the next game I'm making as well.)

OK, I've rambled on without a point up to now, but here's my point:

Is recyclying your own somewhat unique mechanics (i say somewhat cause I doubt any mechanic is unique) seem like bad form? Or is this what helps us recognize those great designers?

To me even though they are almost the same, the games all play different. To me that's what matters. But I wanted to see what everyone elses opinion is on this.

Thanks for reading and commenting in advance.

-Steve

jwarrend
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Joined: 08/03/2008
Rinse, refine and repeat

I don't see a problem with this at all. Borrowing mechanics is a pretty commonplace practice, so why not borrow from the best designer of all -- yourself?

It's also pretty common for a published game to get rethemed and republished with the mechanics essentially unchanged. I'm not as big a fan of that practice. But in terms of just using your own mechanics in a new context, it's perfectly legitimate. I find that many of my games sort of fit into "families" that can be loosely grouped by whatever design principle I happened to be thinking of at that time.

I would also look at it, since you're an unpublished designer (so am I, of course) that realistically, every game you design will probably not get published, so use your "best" mechanics to make each game as good as it can be! Obviously, don't force mechanics into games where they don't fit, and don't reuse mechanics so much that you stagnate as a designer and run out of new ideas, but beyond that, go for it!

-Jeff

zaiga
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Rinse, refine and repeat

Asking a game designer not to re-use certain game mechanics would be like asking a painter not to use a color that has been used in another painting before. If game designers couldn't re-use mechanics there would be very few new games. Established game designers re-use mechanisms all the time.

For example: Ticket to Ride is a great game, but it doesn't have a single unique mechanism. Some mechanisms in the game are even very similar to that of some other Alan Moon designs. However, the combination of mechanisms makes it a unique game.

I wouldn't worry too much about re-using mechanics, especially your own mechanics and even moreso since you haven't actually published anything yet!

- René Wiersma

SVan
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Joined: 10/02/2008
Rinse, refine and repeat

Thank you guys for the quick responses. Basically what you both said is how I feel. I wasn't too worried about copying my own mechaincs (i do not like copying others if I don't have to or am doing it ignorantly.)

I don't own enough games to know if this is a common thing or not, but I feel that it could be. I've heard about Reiner Knizia (correct me if I spelled that wrong) and his auction games (the Egyptian ones i am thinking of) and how they are similar but different. I guess it didn't hurt him any. (Although I wish Spy was as interesting as those games sound. Everyone that I've played with hasn't gotten into it, which is a shame, it's got some good stuff going for it, but not enough.)

-Steve

Anonymous
Rinse, refine and repeat

I don't think you should be worried about it. If you figured it out then you should be able to use it as many times as you want. Using a specfic thing in each game really isn't a big deal from my point of view.

Though I would suggest that you really try your hardest to look at it and try to make it even better. If possible in order to improve yourself and your games you should attempt to build a completely new system each time that you build a game. Or at least thats my philo...

But nonetheless reusing something is not a bad thing.

Verseboy
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Rinse, refine and repeat

I'll second (or fifth) everyone else. There's nothing wrong with borrowing from yourself as long as you make it seem like a different experience every time.

Ignoring for a moment that you're an unpublished game designer, what happens when your first game hits, and it's a huge success? Companies are going to be calling you in the middle of the night, begging for a game from you. You'll start pulling out all these other things you've had in various stages of development. These game companies that are hounding you will WANT something that is not too far afield from the game that made you famous. They'll want similar but different.

Just don't get to the point where someone says, "I don't want the new SVan game. If you have one of his games, you have them all."

There's nothing wrong with having an identifiable style where your games fit into a specific corner of the business. But they should still present as different.

Steve

SVan
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Joined: 10/02/2008
Rinse, refine and repeat

I probably worded the original question wrong, but got a lot of good responses from it. I am not really worried, because of all of my games have been different, even though there are parts of them that are the same.

What I forgot to add was this: I was wondering when you design games, do you notice that you also use mechanics that you have come up with (or found and then tweaked) more than once in different games? Do you feel more comfortable using a mechanic you have used before instead of something someone else has made or even something that you are trying to create.

That's more what I was trying to say, but didn't make it very clear. For me, I prefer using my own mechanics than the ones others have used, but I never know if mine are really all that unique anyways. I don't really think of, "I need to make a mechanic for this," instead I try to think of what I want a mechanic to accomplish and then I work backwards. If something I've already made does that, then I use it again. If not, I eithr look for something or create a new mechanic.

I appreciate all the good comments, thanks again.

-Steve

Verseboy
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Rinse, refine and repeat

Quote:
I try to think of what I want a mechanic to accomplish and then I work backwards.

Form follows function. I think you're approaching this perfectly, though I'm sure others do it differently and with success. It's all about best serving the needs of the game, whatever they may be.

Sorry 'bout misinterpreting the thrust of your original question.

Steve

SVan
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Joined: 10/02/2008
Rinse, refine and repeat

Verseboy wrote:

Sorry 'bout misinterpreting the thrust of your original question.

No apologies needed, it was more my fault for not saying what I meant to say in the first place. Which is a common thing for me. Reminds me of a song by the Julian Theory called "In Conversation."

I have a mind similar to a computer programmer when designing games. I don't know a lot of code, but I know the basics in programming. After I build a game, just like a programmer does, (or should, some companies like MS seem to forget this I think) I debug the game until I feel that it's as clean as possible. Usually my best mechanics come after I write down the rules the first time, read it to myself a bunch of times and wonder what in the world was I thinking when I wrote this. Then I look for a better mechanic to solve what I was looking for.

-Steve

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