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State tracking pawns

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Anonymous

A quick look at my post count shows just how new i am here. However, i was wondering what sort (if any) discussion has been generated regarding state-tracking pawns.

State tracking pawns are basically a dual purpose piece that is used to track location (and possibly facing) as well as one or more other game effecting states. The most prevelent comercial application i can think of off the top of my head is the stuff that Wiz Kids produces which involve highly specialized (and i assume expensive) game pieces.

The other day i stumbled upon the fact that you can use dice as state tracking pawns. You can shift the die's position on the board to track one state (generally location) and use the value shown on the die face to track a different state altogether (movement rate or whatever is appropriate). Then i realized that in addition to that you can use them for a third purpose: randomization.

So i guess my question is, what other kinds of ideas have people put forward regarding the use of state-tracking pawns in general and dice as state-tracking pawns in particular?

Thomas

sedjtroll
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State tracking pawns

Someone just mentioned yesterday using Dice as pieces in a game... though he wasn't specific as to how. There are some commercial games that do this, the only one I can think of offhand is Deadwood (by Cheapass Games). I'm sure there are other Cheapass games and maybe some Halfass Games (Steve Jackson for those who don't get the reference) which do the same.

It got me thinking, and I outlined a chess-type game last night using dice as pieces... d4's for pawn-like pieces, d6's which are similar to Rooks, d8's, a d10, and a d12. Movement rules for pieces depend on the die and range depends on the pips showing. On your turn you can Move, Promote (or demote), and in some cases Rotate (d8, d10) a piece.

Another possibility I had n mind instead of promoting, all the dice start at their maximum number, and on your turn you can 'attack' a piece, causeing it to go down 1 pip. At some point that piece would then die (like when it's at 1 pip and gets attacked).

The win condition would probably be to capture or kill the other guy's d12 or something.

- Seth

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Re: State tracking pawns

LordSmerf wrote:
A quick look at my post count shows just how new i am here. However, i was wondering what sort (if any) discussion has been generated regarding state-tracking pawns.

State tracking pawns are basically a dual purpose piece that is used to track location (and possibly facing) as well as one or more other game effecting states. The most prevelent comercial application i can think of off the top of my head is the stuff that Wiz Kids produces which involve highly specialized (and i assume expensive) game pieces.

The other day i stumbled upon the fact that you can use dice as state tracking pawns. You can shift the die's position on the board to track one state (generally location) and use the value shown on the die face to track a different state altogether (movement rate or whatever is appropriate). Then i realized that in addition to that you can use them for a third purpose: randomization.

So i guess my question is, what other kinds of ideas have people put forward regarding the use of state-tracking pawns in general and dice as state-tracking pawns in particular?

Thomas

I know the Cheapass game Diceland use different facings of the dice for a lot of things; power, different weapons, different abilities, 'Hit Points' (depending upon which set you're playing).

I get the feeling you have something in mind when you posted. Do you have a great idea you're holding back on? Possibly to see if someone else has already done it?

-Darke

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Re: State tracking pawns

Darkehorse wrote:
The Cheapass game Diceland use different facings of the dice for a lot of things

Of course! How could I forget Diceland... it's a perfect example.

Anonymous
Re: State tracking pawns

Darkehorse wrote:
I know the Cheapass game Diceland use different facings of the dice for a lot of things; power, different weapons, different abilities, 'Hit Points' (depending upon which set you're playing).

I get the feeling you have something in mind when you posted. Do you have a great idea you're holding back on? Possibly to see if someone else has already done it?

-Darke

First, Diceland rocks. It uses all three modes for dice: Pawns (position and facing on a non-delineated surface), state (weapons, abilities, etc.) and randomization (you have to roll them onto the play surface). A quick side note: Diceland uses oversized pasteboard 8-sided dice (two pyramidal prisms stacked bottom to bottom) that are pretty large. Part of the game involves the option to bump and move dice already in play as you put a new die into play.

As to whether i have ideas, yes. I am not really "holding back" (i hope). It is more a case of still formulating and finalizing my ideas. The basic design is a 10x10 grid board using d6s as pawns. They can move orthogonally (not diagonally) any number of spaces up to the value showing on the die and can capture any die with an equal or higher value showing. You can choose to reroll any of your dice instead of moving. Play alternates back and forth with each of two players getting one action (to move a die which may or may not include capturing an opponent's die, or rerolling a die). There is a scoring system and a simple victory condition which i could go into if anyone is really interested.

But i am not really worried about other people doing it first. I tend to favor self publishing and if i think it will sell, i will probably package it up (which is why i was inquiring about vinyl boards). The main thrust was: what other (or even similar) ideas have people played around with? Are there other things you can do with state-tracking Pawns and dice-as-pawns that i have not really considered yet?

Thomas

Anonymous
State tracking pawns

Very cool concept! I love it when people use common items in uncommon ways!!

An alternative too would be to use blank dice (or even simple wooden cubes) with custom faces written/printed/adhered to them. That would remove the 1-6 variable and open up more possibilities like dice with variable or non-standard face values (like 1-3 duplicated or 1-2 tripled).

Anonymous
State tracking pawns

Definately a possibility. Additionally the same (or similar) rules can be expanded by chaning die types. d8's are good for bigger boards, d4's are great on 6x6 boards, stuff like that. We will probably stick with d6's for a couple of reasons: they are more familiar than any other type of die, we have actually playtested d6's on a 10x10 board, and the game plays just fast enough and has just the right combination of luck and skill for our purposes...

Can anyone think of other ways state-tracking pawns have been used?

Thomas

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State tracking pawns

SiskNY wrote:
An alternative too would be to use blank dice (or even simple wooden cubes) with custom faces written/printed/adhered to them. That would ... open up more possibilities like dice with variable or non-standard face values

Or non-numerical values... like arrows indicating movement (straight ahead like a pawn, a + like a rook, an X like a Bishop, or an * like a king)

Put the Pawn movement opposite the King movement, with Bishop and Rook movements alternating on the sides, on your tun you can rotate the die 1 face in any direction... something like that.

fanaka66
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State tracking pawns
phpbbadmin
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Also

A delightful little company called Kidult also has a game called Diceland where they use dice in a similar manner, but with hexes instead of squares.

-Darke

Oracle
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State tracking pawns

Railroad Dice uses the same dice as randomization devices, different types of money, and tracks on the board. It all depends on location and orientation.

Halfass has a Chess variant called Proteus. Each player has a set of 8 dice where each face is a different chess piece. It's played on a chess board and each piece is moved according to the Chess rules for that piece, but after moving a piece the player can change a piece up or down one rank. There is no King. When you capture an opposing piece, you get points equal to the value of that piece and when a player can't move or only has 1 piece left the game ends and whoever has the most points wins. That gives a reason not to just play with 8 queens. There are some nice variants like after capturing a piece you roll the piece that did the capture to determine which piece it becomes (that makes sacrificing a pawn very risky as you might end up losing a queen instead).

You can get customized trains for the empire builder games that point in the direction the train is moving, so they specifcy position and direction on the board.

Jason

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Re: State tracking pawns

LordSmerf wrote:
A quick look at my post count shows just how new i am here. However, i was wondering what sort (if any) discussion has been generated regarding state-tracking pawns.

One game that used dice as pawns was the old TSR game Chase. A BGDF member named slam (Greg Lam IRL) has published several games based on this principle through his company, Pair-of-Dice games. Here are a few...

Warp 6

Knockabout

Pagoda (this one's by Luke Weisman)

Anonymous
State tracking pawns

I saw this post, and all I could thik of were 'Hero Clicks'. Google will yeild a bunch a searches for them.

Not quite dice... but they do have states.

RookieDesign
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State tracking pawns

sedjtroll wrote:
It got me thinking, and I outlined a chess-type game last night using dice as pieces... d4's for pawn-like pieces, d6's which are similar to Rooks, d8's, a d10, and a d12. Movement rules for pieces depend on the die and range depends on the pips showing. On your turn you can Move, Promote (or demote), and in some cases Rotate (d8, d10) a piece.

I played this game years ago. I don't remember the name but I'm going back to my parents home and look it up this weekend. You had a line of dice like pawn in the front line starting at 1, some dice in second line starting at 2. All the piece must move for the number of pip orthogonally. You eat piece like chess. After the move you can change one side of the dice. You also have to Queen that only move tho square diagonally. The goal was to eat both opponent's queen. The board was a bit larger than a chess board.

Hope I didn't burst you bubble.

RookieDesign
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State tracking pawns

Just to follow up. I found the game I wanted.

The name was Master.
Here's a link:http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/9795

Just for your information.

Zzzzz
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State tracking pawns

For what it is worth, when I was at GenCON the following company was there showing off an idea that might help pawn states... basically they created color plastic circles (containing magnets) that can be placed under a pawn to show state information. Since they are magnetic you can stack them and thus have multiple states going on at once.

www.aleatools.com

They also showed a method for punching out artwork (say from a MTG card) then mount it on a metal washer. This washer could then be placed in the magnetic piece and used as a custom flat pawn piece. You could make your own custom MTG checker or chess set! Ok I am not selling for them, but I just had to ramble!
l

Anonymous
State tracking pawns

Zzzzz wrote:
For what it is worth, when I was at GenCON the following company was there showing off an idea that might help pawn states... basically they created color plastic circles (containing magnets) that can be placed under a pawn to show state information. Since they are magnetic you can stack them and thus have multiple states going on at once.

www.aleatools.com

Asside from those being a little pricey for my taste, they look really cool. Not a bad idea either. I wonder if there are some generic refrigerator magnets that might work for this kind of an idea as well?

What about a really cheap solution... like a bolt and colored washers? Use the bolt as your pawn, and the washers as your different states. Heck you might even have the parts, and spray paint you need to make it work.

Anonymous
State tracking pawns

I remember Nosissies' game Othberon used something very similar. The pawns were uprights on a base (like a bolt upended but with a more sturdy base). Colored discs (like plastic washers) were then stacked onto the upright. That would work exactly like you describe, though I can't remember the company that provided them (I think they were in the UK).

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State tracking pawns

Yeah the cost did seem a little high.

If I remember correctly you can get circular (and other shape) magnets at local craft stores, and if you just bought some paint and put in on the outside edge of the magnet, ta-da you would have something similar.

nosissies
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State tracking pawns

The pegs and rings I used came from Plastics for Games (also linked in the web resources section), you can find the posts and rings here: http://www.p4g.co.uk/us/us_prod_postring.asp, I use the "long post" and the regular (not thick) ring.

And speaking of bolts, a friend of mine wanted a copy of my game and wasn't willing to wait until it got published, so he made one using nuts and bolts :-)

peace,
Tom

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