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Switch fantasy theme

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Johan
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I love to working with fantasy as a theme. That is also a big problem since I don’t like the stereotype way too look at this theme. There are two many games out there that uses the theme as there were copies of the Tolkien/D&D/WHFB world without give something new. The theme is easy to apply to a mechanism.
The traditional fantasy theme has two sides:
- It gives you the opportunity to create something that not is realistic but yet familiar.
- It can be extremely boring.
I can understand why some game publishers have a not on fantasy in there submission description (If you have a fantasy themed game, you have to add something extra to the game that gives the game its value). The problem is when you step outside the frame (make orcs good or let dwarfs do magic (this is just an example and the changes are mostly bigger and more exacting)) then you get complains that you don’t know what you are doing.

When I get a new idea for a game (as I normally starts with the theme or a detail in the game) around 50% of the times the start is themed fantasy. After the initial design I usually stop and check if I need just pure fantasy as a theme or it can be moved.

If the game is a game that is totally based on fantasy but seen from another angle (example: you are a dragon that wants to be the most famous dragon by kidnapping princesses , collecting treasures and terrorizing countries) then I exaggerate the fantasy part even more (and add humor).

If the game don’t require fantasy part (magic, good vs. bad, mighty creatures and so on) then this is removed and it can be placed in a pure unplacible medieval land. This both limits the options and gives me several new options to work with (and I can move outside the frame).

One way is also to move the whole game to a related theme. I have used fairytale worlds (Grimm Brother) and also the holyday characters (Santa, Easter bunny and more). That opened several new and interesting possibilities. To use a Mythology is another way.

When fantasy is necessary, then I see if I can move the time. Fantasy steam punk is an interesting time period that can be experimented with. I have also mixed fantasy with famous time periods and that also works fine (two known things that are mixed in a third) (example: place orcs, dwarfs and so on in a WWI trench warfare type game or mix 1930 Chicago with fantasy (I have not yet mixed the French revulsion with fantasy, but that would make a interesting challenge))..

// Johan

dete
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Switch fantasy theme

when I see another fantasy game, I'm like.......

uhhh ok whatever, just another fantasy game,

but the way for it to catch my attention is

CHaracters.

interesting characters then I can't take my eyes off it, I keep
thinking about it, wondering how it is.

If it then has something else like never seen before battle system,
or new 4 player battle royal plus be your own enemy!!!
something like that would make me obsessed with the game.

Nandalf
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Joined: 07/13/2009
Dragon Idea wins them all!

I totally agree with adding humor to the somewhat tired fantasy genre.
most of the DnD games i run have buckets of humor in them, because after LotR and playing Warhammer fr a decade it all gets a bit boring.
Yeah, cool characters are catchy, but humoris the best.

larienna
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Joined: 07/28/2008
Switch fantasy theme

I also have the same problem. All games I make either fall in one of these 3 themes : Fantasy, Sci-Fi, War. And it is really bugging me. It's like if I lacked of imagination to come with something new. I only have 1 or 2 game draft that does not fit in this category.

There are still some solution :

- Make variations : like adding humor, Or combine fantasy and sci-fi(like phantasy star ) or make capitalist medieval fantasy game (Monopoly in the middle age), manage a "Club Prince" where you must sell various weaponry and magic items to adventurers.

- Themeless (or low ) game : Simply remove the theme from the game. and make it an abstract game.

- Change focus : Focus on some elements in a fantasy world that other games does not focus on. You could make a noble court game where you must gain influence on the king. A game where you manage ressources to build a castle.

Hedge-o-Matic
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Switch fantasy theme

Well, it's funny, but I don't usually go for themes in games, since I'm all about abstracts for the last few years, but I'll pipe in anyway.

Most of my thoughts about fantasy relate to writing, really. When I think of an idea for a new book or short story, I never go with the "typical fantasy" setting. Really, if a story is about conflict, the basics of conflic are already present in the characters. So the fantastic elements are just there to nudge the characters into conflict. As the real world proves every day, it doesn't take much.

So, as far as game themes go, I tend to go with the same philosophy. Take a fantasy wargame, for example. Does it have to involve huge armies, or dragons? No way. Orcs, elves, or any non-humans? Nope.

"Boring!" shout the purists.

But is it? Say, for a moment, that you've got a typical wargame, but it simulates the conflicts between the two nations along a certain fantasy desert's edge. The desert people continually forage into the foothils of the nearby mountains for raw materials, while the mountain warriors foray into the desert to capture valuable treasures.

When the mountain people venture into the sands, they travel in long caravans, or columns fo marching people. the defending desert dwellers, while also fielding infantry, hide skirmishers under the sands, and have fast-assault sand-clippers, sail-driven ships that plow through the dust and loose sands, bringing ranks of archers, or launching waves of hot gravel from onboard cannons. Trained warriors swing from lines in the masts, swords flashing among the mountain people as the ship hisses past. Boring? No way! Magic? Nope.

When the desert people venture into the foothills, though, they have to contend with not only the standard defending formations, but wood and wicker battle-harnesses in the shapes of animals, each powered by a team of four specially trained fighters. When fixed into their harnesses, the team moves together to animate the clawed limbs and teeth of the mythic beast they embody, allowing it to move and attack like a tremendous lion or other animal. Boring? I hope not! Magic? Who needs it!

This is just an example of the sorts of things that can be done with a good setting. Forget the idea of "themes" with games, and give them a setting instead. It will really bring the games alive!

Once you've got a setting, designing the conflicts the games will enact becomes simple. Plus, the players begin to fell they are part of an ongoing storyline, and this only adds to the experience.

Johan
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Switch fantasy theme

Hedge-o-Matic wrote:
Well, it's funny, but I don't usually go for themes in games, since I'm all about abstracts for the last few years, but I'll pipe in anyway.

I do it the other way around (normally). Starting with a theme and build the game from that.

Hedge-o-Matic wrote:
Take a fantasy wargame, for example. Does it have to involve huge armies, or dragons? No way. Orcs, elves, or any non-humans? Nope.

Agree, but if you include them, and not make them stereotyped, you get the Boring scream. Orcs can not be good, Dwarfs has to live in the mountains (and live in the cold north) and elf's... yes the worshipper of the elf's is the conservative of them all.

The example you have is a good example of a low fantasy conflict that could be both a board game, card game, table top or RPG.

Nandalf wrote:
I totally agree with adding humor to the somewhat tired fantasy genre.
most of the DnD games i run have buckets of humor in them, because after LotR and playing Warhammer fr a decade it all gets a bit boring.

The problem with humor is that has been done over and over again (Steve Jackson Games especially). If Humor is added, there still has to be with something new.

Nandalf wrote:
Yeah, cool characters are catchy, but humoris the best.

dete wrote:
CHaracters.

interesting characters then I can't take my eyes off it, I keep
thinking about it, wondering how it is.
Characters can make a game worth trying again. Runbound (first ed) had a interesting gallery of characters and a underlying conflict I liked, but after 5 games I put this game away. I will probably never play it again because of the crappy mechanism. But still the characters were a major reason why I tested the game so many times.

Hedge-o-Matic wrote:
Most of my thoughts about fantasy relate to writing, really. When I think of an idea for a new book or short story, I never go with the "typical fantasy" setting. Really, if a story is about conflict, the basics of conflic are already present in the characters. So the fantastic elements are just there to nudge the characters into conflict. As the real world proves every day, it doesn't take much.

Have you had anything published?

// Johan

gpetersz
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Switch fantasy theme

Yes, I understand what you mean. It is hard to diverse from the usual stuff.
Beautiful elves best with the bow, sturdy dwarves drinking beer (and burping), dumb evil orcs dying in bunches... ;)

Here is a good example of something different:
http://www.violetdawn.com/

It is not my site, and I never worked for them, but I really admired
their creativity, though it is a bit too complex for me.

They invented a bit of a surreal world with many (too many in my opinion) new races (man-like and animals). I think that's way that might be take.
It is still fantasy, but not the classic one.

Hedge-o-Matic
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Switch fantasy theme

Johan wrote:
Have you had anything published?

// Johan

Just short stuff, so far. But here's hoping on the books! The problem I'm having is getting past the "slush pile" to show a manuscript to someone with authority to make a decision!

Shameless plug:
http://www.blackgate.com/

My story is in the latest issue, #8.

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