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World War I board game/CCG combo

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ACG
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Joined: 12/31/1969

Hi!

I've been listening to an audiotape course on WWI and was wondering if I could make this into a game. Here are the basics. There are two players, France and Germany. Here are some snippets from the rules.

The board is a 6x6 hex board which starts out empty. The goal is to get one of your units over to the other end of the board -- a breakthrough. Each player draws 7 cards out of a deck of 60 to start the game -- I can't remember where that magic number came from.

TURNS

During each turn, each side writes down a set of actions he would like his units to do. No individual unit may perform more than one action. The actions may be one of:

1. Have a unit shoot at a target in a hex.
2. Have a unit to a hex not occupied by an enemy unit
3. Use a tool. Each unit has four tools: barbed wire (obstacle -- requires extra effort to cross), a gas mask (protects against gas but is a defensive liability due to loss of peripheral vision), a gun (well, using that is shooting), and a shovel (trenches and foxholes may come in handy -- give a defensive bonus just like in the actual war).
4. Play a card. Cards are responsible for initially deploying units (for instance, the German may have a "Dieter" card in his hand, so he picks up the token with the name "Dieter" and puts it on the board. The names of the soldiers are important -- before the game begins, certain soldiers are chosen to be snipers, miners, machine gunners, and so forth so we need to know who is who as some have special abilities) or trigger actions (call in a gas attack, mortar attack, grenade attack). The cards can give units bonuses (Head of State Visit: all your men get a bonus for this turn; Shore Leave: remove a unit from the board and when he comes back he's permanently stronger because of morale; Fraternization: remove one unit from each side from the game; Hello, My Name is X, You Killed My Comrade Prepare to Die: unit gets +2 offense/-2 defense until end of turn etc.).

The list can be as long as you want provided that each player has at least one action. At any time, a player can say "Done" and both players must perform the actions in the order specified in alternating order (French 1 German 1 French 2 German 2 etc.) with the side acting first chosen at random. People who think fast can get more done in a turn than those who strategize -- quick thinking is important in a battle.

SHOOTING WITH A GUN

To determine if A hit B, take B's defensive value, subtract A's offensive value, and add the distance between A and B. This is the "THAC0" so to speak. You roll a d8. If you beat the THAC0, B is hit and eliminated. Trenches and foxholes give a +3 bonus, a 1 always misses, and an 8 always hits.

MORTAR ATTACK

Choose the target square and roll a d12. 7-12 means the mortar was on target. 1 means long, 2 means right long, 3 means right short, etc. The occupants of the target hex suffer an attack with distance 4 and offense 3 (big explosives can be problematic)

GAS ATTACK

Targeted square is determine similar to a Mortar attack. Anybody in the target square who is not wearing a gas mask suffers an attack with distance 4 and offense 2 (you can survive a gas attack if you're lucky). The gas cloud lasts 3 turns -- roll the d12 to determine where the cloud moves next after each turn. 7-12 it stays put, 1-6 it moves like in the Mortar targeting scheme.

THE COLLECTIBLE CARD GAME ASPECT

The basic set will have 30 soldier tokens per side ("Auguste", "Bruno", "Charles", "Alfred", "Balthasar", "Dieter") and 30 "other" cards. By "other" cards I mean stuff like Gas Attack, Pacifism, You Killed My Comrade, Shell Shock (chosen enemy unit suffers -1/-1 until end of turn). Some of the cards will be commons (Mortar Attack, for instance; possibly Gas Attack -- otherwise no one will put their gas mask on; Bad Weather (all units get -1/-1 until end of turn)). Less common cards will be things like Tank, Shell Shock, Christmas Truce (which actually happened in 1914 and pissed off both sides' generals -- no one can use a weapon for three turns); Aerial Reconnaissance (opponent reveals his hand for this turn) and cards which are a little more powerful. Head of State Visit, Shore Leave, and other still more powerful cards would be rares. There would even be legends: von Ludendorff (all German units get +1/+1 permanently) and the French equivalent Petain.

All decks are required to have the 30 soldiers (think of "Summon Dieter" cards from Magic) and 30 "others".

Here's an example of fighting.
---------------
The French plan five actions:

Henri points his gun at Ludwig’s hex, and shoots from distance 4.
The Gas unit tries to gas the hex with Dieter and Karl in it. Jurgen is in the hex directly north of the one with Dieter and Karl.
The Tank runs over some barbed wire.
Charles, who started in the same square as the Tank, follows the Tank into enemy territory now that the barbed wire is out of the way.
Thierry grenades the hex with Adolf in it.

The Germans plan five attacks:

Ludwig, who starts out in a foxhole, moves somewhere.
Karl puts on his gas mask.
Dieter, a Sniper, shoots at Henri from distance 4.
Adolf grenades the hex with the Tank from a trench.
Jurgen lays some barbed wire.

SCENARIO 1: The d8 is rolled, and the French attack first. Here is how things play out.

FRENCH 1: Henri needs a 6 to hit Ludwig. He’s 4 units away, Ludwig’s defense is 2, and Henri’s offense is 2. That would mean he needs a 4 to hit. However, Ludwig is in a foxhole, so that gives him a bonus of 2. The player rolls and gets a 3. He missed.
GERMAN 1: Ludwig moves somewhere.
FRENCH 2: The first thing we need to check is if the gas actually hits the desired hex. The player rolls the d12 and it comes out a 1. This means that it misses Dieter and Karl – and lands on poor Jurgen’s head. Jurgen does not have his gas mask on. Out comes a 2. Jurgen’s toast.
GERMAN 2: Karl puts his gas mask on, thanking God that the last shot just missed him.
FRENCH 3: The Tank runs over the barbed wire.
GERMAN 3: Dieter shoots at Henri. He needs a 3 to hit instead of a 4 because he is a Sniper. He rolls and gets a 7. Bye-bye Henri.
FRENCH 4: Charles runs after the Tank.
GERMAN 4: Adolf grenades the square which had the Tank and Charles in it – but both have moved. Oops.
FRENCH 5:Thierry grenades Adolf. He needs a 3 to hit. He gets a 6. Looks like Adolf is about to spend time talking to Jurgen.
GERMAN 5: Jurgen would have loved to lay the barbed wire, but he’s dead. Nothing happens.

BETWEEN TURNS: Gas cloud rolls a 1 and moves 1 north. This movement (and any associated casualties) take place just before the next turn's actions. Let's hope Charles didn't follow the Tank north!

Compare this to what would happen if the Germans attacked first.

GERMAN 1: Ludwig moves somewhere.
FRENCH 1: Henri pulls the trigger only to find Ludwig gone. Insert French expletive here.
GERMAN 2: Karl puts his gas mask on.
FRENCH 2: The gas attack gets a 12, so the missile lands on target. Karl has his gas mask on, but Dieter doesn’t. The die is rolled, and Dieter is toast. Karl survives.
GERMAN 3: Dieter would love to shoot at Henri but he’s busy arguing with St. Peter.
FRENCH 3: The Tank runs over the barbed wire.
GERMAN 4: Adolf can’t hit the Tank because the Tank moved. However, poor Charles is still stuck in the hex. Adolf needs a 3 to hit. He gets a 3. Charles is toast.
FRENCH 4: St. Peter starts screaming as Charles starts trying to shoot Dieter. This has no impact on the battlefield, though.
GERMAN 5: Jurgen puts up his wire.
FRENCH 5: Thierry needs a 5 hit Adolf because Adolf’s in a trench. He gets a 6 and misses.

BETWEEN TURNS: The gas cloud roll is a 10. The gas stays put. Karl falls in love with his gas mask.

Depending on the order the actions are resolved and the dice, we have two entirely different series of events. The first series of events knocks off Henri and Jurgen and the second set blows away Dieter, Charles, and Adolf. Yet the plan was the same both times!

What do you think?

ACG

Nando
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Joined: 07/22/2008
Re: World War I board game/CCG combo

ACG wrote:
What do you think?
I think chickens are hard to catch when they're awake and that pecan pie is the best kind of pie.

ACG
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Joined: 12/31/1969
World War I board game/CCG combo

Oh, and I forgot the obvious: both sides draw a card ("reinforcements") at the beginning of each turn. They may play any number of cards on any given turn (to perform the appropriate actions).

If you want a scoring system for multiple games, the score of each game is as follows: the winner of each battle gets a total score equal to the total number of units on the board at the time of the breakthrough. Winning a battle is good. Winning a battle with horrendous casualty totals for either side is not good.

ACG

OutsideLime
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Joined: 12/31/1969
World War I board game/CCG combo

I like the basic concept of the game a lot, and the walkthrough was a fun read. I don't see why this has to be a CCG though.

I get the feeling that this game will take a lot of careful balancing to actually work, and by adding more and more cards you run the risk of the whole thing grinding to a halt. I think that you could develop an interesting base game here without all the extra powerful cards.

The orders notation system must be formalized so that players cannot just scribble whatever and call it orders. Hexes must be numbered to facilitate this. E.g. "Heinrich shoots at hex 12"

Nice idea!

~Josh

ACG
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Joined: 12/31/1969
World War I board game/CCG combo

There's going to be a shorthand for moves and orders everyone will have to follow (no "everyone in hex 12 moves to hex 13").

The CCG aspect is there but it isn't critical (it can be removed). What is important is that there are cards which appear many times in a deck, cards which are infrequent, and so forth. The more powerful the card, the more infrequent it is.

I have so many ideas for cards that I'm fairly certain we can find a set that works. Air Raid (uncommon) -- in effect an always on-target mortar attack with a plane flying at you firing its machine guns. Defector (rare) -- take control of an enemy unit. Influenza (rare) -- remove 4 units from both sides (actually, the 1918 flu epidemic supposedly killed more people than the war). Medic (common) -- bring a casualty unit (chosen at random) back to your hand.

This will be fun!

ACG

OutsideLime
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Joined: 12/31/1969
World War I board game/CCG combo

It certainly sounds like it will be. You enthusiasm for the subject is apparent, and perhaps your interest in including all of these interesting facts about the war would lend itself well to a CCG structure. Or perhaps not a full CCG, but an expandable card game á la (dare I say it) Munchkin. I can already envision the little flavour blurbs on each card.

I'd be interested in playtesting if you ever get a proto set together, good luck and keep us informed!

~Josh

bluesea
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Joined: 07/28/2008
World War I board game/CCG combo

Quote:
I've been listening to an audiotape course on WWI and was wondering if I could make this into a game.

just a thought...

Would there be a way to combine the audio experience of the learning process into the play of the game? With mp3 players so common, can they be made to be a limited part of the whole board game experience?

For example, I picture WWI soldiers crouched in a cold, wet trench, huddled around the radio listening to the crackling news and battle progress reports. These news reports could become part of the theme of the game while also affecting the game play... A report on the success in another battle could obviously boost morale of your players and give them an advantage in battle without just drawing or playing a card that says +1 Attack. Your head of state visit could be an announcement over the radio as well.

The reports of Influenza coming over the wireless might be foreshadowing to an impending problem and each player must take precautions to mitigate its effects. (i.e., quarantine sick troops (remove them from the board so there is a loss of few vs. a loss of many. lack of action could lead to great troop loss).

Or these could just as easily be made as "wireless report" cards that offer a way to effect the morale of the troops like you say you want to do.

I like the feel of what you describe though. Keep on it.

ACG
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World War I board game/CCG combo

There's actually a very good reason a CCG would work -- and in a sense be necessary.

If you know exactly what you are facing, it will be easier for you to defend against it. That's going to happen if everyone has the same deck -- if you've got a whole bunch of gas canisters in your hand, you're going to know the opponent does as well and as a result everyone will be walking around with gas masks on. In reality (according to the tapes), when gas was first introduced (by the Germans) the Allied forces were so devastated that even the Germans had underestimated the casualties and weren't in a position to advance.

Realistically, in a war, you have no idea what's going to be thrown at you. Some theaters may have lots of tanks. Some may have lots of gas. If your opponent guesses tanks when you have gas (especially if he's EXPECTING you to have tanks from a previous game), he's going to be in big trouble.

ACG

ACG
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World War I board game/CCG combo

By the way, here's the set of cards I just thought up. This will do for now. I haven't thought about game balance yet. A deck will consist of 30 soldiers and 30 others -- and the others will be distributed among these.

COMMONS (excluding the 30 soldier cards)
-------------------------------------------------
GRENADE (Common): accurate, used in conjunction with a unit attack, offense 1 distance 2 (THAC0 3)
MORTAR (Common): inaccurate, offense 2 distance 2 (THAC0 2)
MEDICAL ATTENTION (Common): Deceased unit chosen at random is brought back to your hand.
HELLO, MY NAME IS X, YOU KILLED MY COMRADE, PREPARE TO DIE (Common): Unit gets +3/-1 until end of turn.
SHELL SHOCK (Common): Enemy unit gets -1/-1 until end of turn.
FOG (Common): All units get -1/0 until end of turn.
INJURY (Common): Enemy unit gets a permanent 0/-1.
REINFORCEMENT (Common): Draw a card.
PRISONER EXCHANGE (Common): Each player searches through his opponent’s casualties, chooses a unit, and shuffles it into his opponent’s deck.
MISFIRE (Common): A chosen enemy unit’s gun malfunctions. He cannot fire this turn. He can throw grenades, though.

UNCOMMONS:
-----------------
GUNSIGHT (Uncommon): Play when a unit is deployed. This unit has a special gunsight which allows him to treat all distances between 2 and 4 as distance 2 when it comes to firing. He will still not be able to attack units more than 4 squares away.
JAM (Uncommon): A chosen enemy unit’s gun malfunctions. He cannot fire the rest of the game.
MATERIEL SUPPLY (Uncommon): Draw three cards.
BULLETPROOF VEST: (Uncommon): Played when a unit is deployed. Unit gets +0/+2 as long as he is in play.
CHRISTMAS TRUCE (Uncommon): No one may fire weapons for the next three turns (this includes the remainder of this turn)
AERIAL RECONNAISSANCE (Uncommon): Opponent plays with his hand revealed until end of turn. [Uncommon because they could be using a dirigible/zeppelin instead of the exotic new airplane]
ESPIONAGE (Uncommon): Look at your opponent’s next 3 cards and arrange them in any order you wish.
SHORE LEAVE (Uncommon): Remove a unit from play and bring him back to your hand. When he is deployed again, he gets a +1/+1 bonus as long as he is in play.
GAS (Uncommon): inaccurate, offense 1 distance 2 (THAC0 3, lasts 3 turns)

RARES:
---------
CHARISMATIC LEADER (Rare): Play when a unit is deployed. Unit encourages people to fight better and gives all friendly units +1/+1 while this unit is in play.
DEFECTOR (Rare): A chosen enemy unit switches sides and joins your forces.
INFLUENZA (Rare): Roll d8. Each player removes that many units in play. If he does not have enough units in play, all in play are removed.
AIRCRAFT STRAFE (Rare): Equivalent to simultaneous grenade attacks on two adjacent hexes, chosen by the attacking player.
AERIAL BOMB (Rare): Like a mortar, but offense 3.
TECHNOLOGICAL BREAKTHROUGH (Rare): Player can use a COMMON World War II (that’s Two) technological device present in 1939, the premise being it has just been invented by one of the warring powers. They can also try to create a new style of weapon or technology based on 1914 technology which was not actually created during the war. Once it is introduced, both sides may use it. The players negotiate as to what its properties will be (for instance, is it +2/+1, etc.)
MUTINY (Rare): Any remaining actions planned by the opponent this turn do not take place.
HEAD OF STATE VISIT (Rare): All your units get +2/+0 until end of turn.
MALNUTRITION (Rare): All enemy units get +0/-2 until end of turn.
NERVE GAS (Rare): Like a gas attack, but gas masks won’t help.

That's all for now :)

ACG

OutsideLime
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World War I board game/CCG combo

Quote:
TECHNOLOGICAL BREAKTHROUGH (Rare): Player can use a COMMON World War II (that’s Two) technological device present in 1939, the premise being it has just been invented by one of the warring powers. They can also try to create a new style of weapon or technology based on 1914 technology which was not actually created during the war. Once it is introduced, both sides may use it. The players negotiate as to what its properties will be (for instance, is it +2/+1, etc.)

I cannot imagine that this will work, in practice. The idea is nice but you are giving your players the opportunity to break your game. That, and you assume that they have a good working knowledge of 1939 technology. Why don't YOU just add a card that represents this "new" technology - a better machinegun or whatnot. That way you don't get a +35 panzerschrek messing wih your balance.

~Josh

ACG
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World War I board game/CCG combo

I actually thought of that argument shortly after I sent out the mail -- it would be too powerful. So, instead, we have a new Rare:

WIRELESS INTERCEPT (Rare): Must be the only action in your list. When the lists of actions are revealed, you may look your opponent's list of actions and plan your own based on this knowledge. You may plan no more actions than your opponent. Once you have developed your list of actions, the turn continues as before with the die roll to determine whose first action is resolved first.

JeffK
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World War I board game/CCG combo

ACG wrote:
There's actually a very good reason a CCG would work -- and in a sense be necessary.

If you know exactly what you are facing, it will be easier for you to defend against it. That's going to happen if everyone has the same deck -- if you've got a whole bunch of gas canisters in your hand, you're going to know the opponent does as well and as a result everyone will be walking around with gas masks on.

It's possible to have an expandable, customizable game that isn't collectable. Blue Moon manages this very nicely by having ten fixed decks and rules for mixing matching the cards for customizable decks. There are about 300 cards total, giving plenty of choices for deckbuilding. However, since you know exactly what cards you're getting when you buy a deck there are none of those "chase rares" that many people (like me) find annoying. I prefer my deckbuilding and playing skills to be the determining factor in a game, not my ability to buy and open hundreds of boosters or hunt down rare cards on ebay.

Jeff K.

snak_attack
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World War I board game/CCG combo

I hate giving negative feedback, but WW1 doesn't seem like a good setting for this game. I think some kind of Sci-fi skirmish would be a much better fit.

Also, consider looking at duel of ages, it has some similarities - with named characters who can be upgraded with equipment, skills, etc. Your gameplay feels pretty distinct though

Jonsonite
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Joined: 12/31/1969
World War I board game/CCG combo

For deckbuilding purposes, maybe you should give each card a point value, say 1-10, and then build decks to a agreed upon limit, say 100. It works in heroscape, it could work here.

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