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I never win. . .

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Anonymous

I've noted a curious trend where I never win when playtesting my own games.

You would think that having an intimate knowledge of the game would give me a slight edge over new(er) players. Perhaps on some level deep down I don't play to win, but play to test as many different aspects of the game as I can?

Anyone else notice this?

Cheers,
Ben

Brykovian
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Joined: 07/21/2008
I never win. . .

I rarely win at my games ... whether playtesting or "really playing" ... never really tried to figure out why -- I've just accepted it as part of life.

;-D

-Bryk

OutsideLime
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Joined: 12/31/1969
I never win. . .

The temptation to offer playtesters good strategy during playtesting is a tough one to resist. You want new players to realize all the options that they have, so that they will see all the clever ideas you've built into your masterpiece, and understand the depth of the game.

Offering strategy is a good way to get players to pick up on the nuances of a game that they would otherwise have to learn for themselves, usually through many runthroughs of a game. But you're playing RIGHT NOW, and you don't want to wait, so you give them hints, suggest options, remind them of rules that they can take advantage of. You raise your eyebrow questioningly at a less-than-wise decision... and the last thing you want to do, perhaps subconsciously, is absolutely TROUNCE someone the first time they play your game... you do want them to play it again, after all.

As the designer, you are aware of the balances and imbalances of your game. It is the exploiting of the imbalances that allows a skilled player to succeed at the game. Try this:

Play your game with someone who doesn't know it. Have them read the rules, and don't offer them any verbal clarification on anything, even if they ask. Your response to any query should be to shrug and say: "Check the rules." Do not offer them any strategic tips, do not ask them "are you sure you want to do that?" when they make a dubious move. No help. Play your best to beat them. Two things will arise from this.

Thing 1) You will win your game. If you don't, then you have either designed a very luck-based game or a very transparent one. Neither of those fit my personal criteria for an interesting game, but people are different.

Thing 2) You will find out how complete your rules are. Any questions that are unanswerable need to be addressed, and any questions relating to a major element of mechanic or gameplay means that that element need to be more clearly explained.

That being said, I'm no angel myself and usually get beaten at my own games for all the reasons above. A few games in with the same player, however, the learning curve evens out and then it's a different story.

~Josh

Scurra
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Joined: 09/11/2008
I never win. . .

OutsideLime wrote:
Thing 1) You will win your game. If you don't, then you have either designed a very luck-based game or a very transparent one. Neither of those fit my personal criteria for an interesting game, but people are different.

If only this were true :-)
I have done this with several of my games, and have still lost. This is (1) because one of those testers is a good "sight-reader": he sees how games work pretty quickly and reaches a competent level of play usually within the first game, and (2) because I'm actually rubbish at playing games. (I tend to finish 2nd in most games rather than winning, if the game has a positional outcome.)

To adapt an old adage: Those that can, play. Those that can't, design.

xantheman
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Joined: 12/31/1969
I never win. . .

I lose a lot at my own games. I tend to play for the sake of testing the game rather then to win. Also, my fellow players are sometimes intimidated at playing a game with the person that designed it and they tend to gang up on me at times. It makes for a good challenge though.

Xan
www.rentoys.com

FastLearner
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Joined: 12/31/1969
I never win. . .

I nearly always lose my own games, and am not in the least concernced that they're transparent or simple. Rather, I blame it on my preoccupation with watching how the game is going, what precisely is happening each turn ("Did he choose that becuase he's out of them, or does he not know how to play them?"), and constantly considering what would be happening at a given moment with a slightly tweaked rule. That, and several of the guys in my group are very fast on the draw, figuring out games quickly.

-- Matthew

Hedge-o-Matic
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Joined: 07/30/2008
I never win. . .

FastLearner wrote:
I nearly always lose my own games, and am not in the least concernced that they're transparent or simple. Rather, I blame it on my preoccupation with watching how the game is going, what precisely is happening each turn ("Did he choose that becuase he's out of them, or does he not know how to play them?"), and constantly considering what would be happening at a given moment with a slightly tweaked rule. That, and several of the guys in my group are very fast on the draw, figuring out games quickly.

-- Matthew

I do this as well, but even after this feeling fades, I continue to lose my own games. But I'm not concerned, as I tend to lose almost all the time anyway, no matter who designs them. What can I say? I'm just bad at playing games, I guess.

FastLearner
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Joined: 12/31/1969
I never win. . .

Yeah, me too, but I blame that on my subconsciously still being a game designer and constantly working out why certain rules are in place, etc.

Don't know that it's true, but it feels better than just assuming I suck. :)

larienna
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Joined: 07/28/2008
I never win. . .

Each time I convince my friend to play a game, either a game I bought or made, I generally always lose. If I don't lose on my own game, well some of my friends might think that I am cheating by making the rules at my advantage.

I think that I am good to design and modify games but I am really bad for playing them.

Second there is also the fact that luck is never with me. In a AD&D sessions, I can easily have 75% of my D20 rolls under 5. If another player play with my dices, it will curse him unless he draw a rune of protection over the die ( it has been tested and it works (^_^)).

Lor
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Joined: 12/31/1969
I never win. . .

Geez, I thought I was ALONE on this one... my win: lose ratio runs 30:70. Tonight at a gracious local game store it was 0:100! Both rounds! The newcomer picked it up quickly.

My item is an abstract strategy game which is pretty easy to learn with only a couple of ordinances which are almost easy to forget, so when I see a player making an illegal move I first ask why, if the need isn't obvious. Then I restate the ordinance and ask if it's clear.

New players expect to spend a few minutes mastering a few rules of movement in new universe. But the simpler and more logical to the theme and the playing field, the better.

You do enough tsting and certain stumbling blocks emerge. Afterward I got to churn over how to make certain rules clearer.

There is nothing to approach playtesting to make a game real. You learn more from losing than winning.

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