Skip to Content

October 2005 test session

8 replies [Last post]
Johan
Johan's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/05/2008

Hi

This month test session, had a full set of games to test:
- One for all (by Sedjtroll and Scurra)
- Wag the wolf (by IngredientX)
- Horror in Europe (by me)

Wag the wolf was send by a delivery firm and they did not manage to get me the game on time (I don't have the game yet but I will get it tomorrow (Monday)). I will get the game is tested within a week.

Horror in Europe (my game for the Z-man game challenge) did not work the way I wanted it. It took too long time.
In these cases I am lucky to have a so understanding test group. First we did a test that took 2.5 hours and we had just managed to run it for 2.5 turns (out of 8-16). We stopped the test and had a lunch break. During that lunch break I redesigned some parts in the game and later in the evening we had a new test. Then we manage to complete the game within 3.5 hours.
There were a lot of positive things in the game:
- All players did like the game and the concept.
- The player downtime was short (no player did think that we played for so long).
- The basic concept worked.
Now I have to take away at least 1 hour and streamline the whole game (another 40-80 hours before the next test).

One for All
The test for One for All took 1 hour and 20 minutes including rule description. The result was:

<br />
Player       Id                score<br />
Agnes       Milady           19 (12/7)<br />
Johan       Arthos           11 (6/5)<br />
Marcus      Rocheford        10 (4/6)<br />
Björn       Aramis            8 (4/4)<br />
Magga       d´Artganan        2 (1/1)<br />

Game notes:
- It took at least two rounds around the table before we understood how to win the game.
- We had only 3 duels during the game. Two of the duels where including mission cards. Instead of having duels we let the character with the object move to the location, drop the object, take a new turn and then let the character that should have the object go and pick it up and complete the mission.
- d´Artanganan was left in the eastern part of the city and all other characters was in the western part of the city (he was not moved into play).
- The guards that lurking in the city did not effect the game (the players avoided those).
- Agnes did win because she could complete around one mission per turn except the first one (sum of 7).

Rule discussion:
- One we had a rule discussion and that was if it was possible to play the One for all card (get a new round), use it and get a mission (return the One for all card to the hand), use the One for all card to get a new round, get a mission, return the card to the hand (and so on). We ruled against it. You could only have two turns in a row.

The comments:
Since we actually tested this game as a ready game there were a lot of non-relevant discussion on the game graphic design... maybe not that non-relevant because we had one players that was really negative to the game because of the graphic's.
- Game board: Here is actually the big problem. It was hard to get an overview of the game and how you could move (and where to move to).
- The cards were hard to read, but that was manageable when you learned it (Black on blue is not the best).
- You had managed to have 4 different styles in the game (the rules have a strict correct look, the game board is an old map, the character cards are cartoons and the cards...yes the cards).

- Otherwise the main thing about the game where that it was to random and only depended on the cards you get. I did not believe that. I think that you could win with some strategy (combined with luck). Still, the way the game is today (the rules not the graphic's), this game will never be a favourite of mine, but an updated version would be OK to test in the future.

// Johan

sedjtroll
sedjtroll's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/21/2008
October 2005 test session - ALL FOR ONE

First off, I would like to give a big "Thank You" to Johan and his crew for testing All For One. Thanks!

Johan wrote:

One for All
The test for One for All took 1 hour and 20 minutes including rule description. The result was:
<br />
Player       Id                score<br />
Agnes       Milady           19 (12/7)<br />
Johan       Arthos           11 (6/5)<br />
Marcus      Rocheford        10 (4/6)<br />
Björn       Aramis            8 (4/4)<br />
Magga       d´Artganan        2 (1/1)<br />

I assume the score breakdown is (playerscore/characterscore)... Let me comment on your scores relative to what I would expect to see:
- The player who had MiLady as their ID got themost points... or more importantly, MiLady completed the most missions. This is not a suprise, as in my opinion, it's easiest to do missions with MiLady. I think this is OK, because MiLady cannot supplement her score by dueling guards like the musketeers can, and she has no combat ability for fighting Musketeers.

- The player with D'Artagnan only completed 1 mission, and with only 1 token, and no bonus for their One For All card? That player must have really failed to grasp the basic concept of the game. This happens sometimes. I would be intereted to know if Magga figured it out by the end of the game, or was still as confused as at the outset.

- Did anyone think Rochefort's combat ability was 'too good'? It appears Marcus did not attempt to score extra points by 'attacking' musketeers (demanding tokens from them), even though he could almost ensure victory. Did this not cross his mind? Or did he prefer to work on missions, thinking fighting duels would not be efficient enough (or might give away his identity)?

Quote:

- It took at least two rounds around the table before we understood how to win the game.

This does not suprise me at all. It isn't obvious how to go about this game, which is perhaps its biggest downfall.

Quote:
- We had only 3 duels during the game. Two of the duels where including mission cards. Instead of having duels we let the character with the object move to the location, drop the object, take a new turn and then let the character that should have the object go and pick it up and complete the mission.

This is a pretty low number of duels for a game. Especially a 5 player game where lots of characters are doing lots of different things. Didn't you find that it took too much time sometimes to drop an item and have another character pick it up? Were you always able to complete the mission that turn, or did such a maneuver (using your One For All card to drop an item with one character and then pick it up with another) leave you 'vulnerable' without the use of your One For All card?
Quote:
- d´Artanganan was left in the eastern part of the city and all other characters was in the western part of the city (he was not moved into play).
This happens sometimes, but not often when someone has D'Artgnan as their ID. I'd think Magga would have started using D'Artagnan more when noone else was - though that's not strictly necessary because you can score points without ever using your ID.
Quote:
- The guards that lurking in the city did not effect the game (the players avoided those).

So the guards DID affect the game - the players avoided them ;) That's their intended purpose. You have to plan your route around the guards, or else fight your way through them.
Quote:
- Agnes did win because she could complete around one mission per turn except the first one (sum of 7).

I find it a little hard to believe that anyone can complete 1 mission per turn for an entire game - but not impossible. In order to do so, I expect Agnes would have had to use the One For All card for extra turns every turn, and only deliver 1 token much of the time, and could therefore still lose the game to someone doing more efficient missions.
Quote:
Rule discussion:
- One we had a rule discussion and that was if it was possible to play the One for all card (get a new round), use it and get a mission (return the One for all card to the hand), use the One for all card to get a new round, get a mission, return the card to the hand (and so on). We ruled against it. You could only have two turns in a row.

David and I had a similar discussion to what you had... on the one hand, if a player sets it up such that they can chain together a bunch of turns then more power to them. On the other hand, I once chained 5 turns in a row, and while that was very fun for me, my opponents were bored waiting for me, and it messed up the entire board for the other players, and it didn't even make me win. So David and I agreed it would be best to stop the chaining, and to do so we worded the rule such that you get the One For All card back in your hand AT THE END OF A TURN in which you completed a mission, not right when you complete it. I thought the rules david sent you said that...

Quote:
- Otherwise the main thing about the game where that it was to random and only depended on the cards you get. I did not believe that. I think that you could win with some strategy (combined with luck).

I agree with you. I believe that a good player will beat lesser players almost all the time in this game, and that would not be the case if it were truely random. I think the REAL problem is that it's too subtle... it's hard to tell (until you've played a lot) what it means to be 'good at' this game.

Thanks again for testing it. I hope it was fun. I noticed that you played with 5 people, which tends to make for a more chaotic game with lots of things happening before it's your turn again. The fewer players in the game, the more control you tend to have, and the 'easier' it is to do bigger missions.

- Seth

Johan
Johan's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/05/2008
Re: October 2005 test session - ALL FOR ONE

First: I revived Wag the Wolf yesterday so we will test it on Sunday (It will be 3-4 players that time). At the same time will we do a retest of All for One but this time with 3 players (Me, Agnes and Marcus). We will see if there will be a different result.

Now to the comments:

sedjtroll wrote:
I assume the score breakdown is (playerscore/characterscore)

Yes it is.

Quote:

- The player with D'Artagnan only completed 1 mission, and with only 1 token, and no bonus for their One For All card? That player must have really failed to grasp the basic concept of the game. This happens sometimes. I would be intereted to know if Magga figured it out by the end of the game, or was still as confused as at the outset.

Magga tried to build up missions, but it took too long time between the rounds and Agnes manage to take some or her mission tokens nearly each time.

Quote:
This is a pretty low number of duels for a game. Especially a 5 player game where lots of characters are doing lots of different things. Didn't you find that it took too much time sometimes to drop an item and have another character pick it up?

No not in our game. Take object by duels where too random (you did not know if you would win or loose the duel). With this it was possible to at least get the quick victory points.
In this 5 players game it was not possible to build up a larger mission.

Quote:
Were you always able to complete the mission that turn, or did such a maneuver (using your One For All card to drop an item with one character and then pick it up with another) leave you 'vulnerable' without the use of your One For All card?

Most of the time we used the "One for All" card to get the mission done. (Agnes was an expert on this and she did not need to add her secret character score to win this game).

Quote:

I find it a little hard to believe that anyone can complete 1 mission per turn for an entire game - but not impossible. In order to do so, I expect Agnes would have had to use the One For All card for extra turns every turn, and only deliver 1 token much of the time, and could therefore still lose the game to someone doing more efficient missions.

Not all but nearly.

// Johan

p.s Sorry about the name ;)

Scurra
Scurra's picture
Offline
Joined: 09/11/2008
Re: October 2005 test session - ALL FOR ONE

I shall try to refrain from duplicating Seth's comments. However... :-)

Sedjtroll wrote:

I find it a little hard to believe that anyone can complete 1 mission per turn for an entire game - but not impossible.

As you noted, in a five-player game it is much more difficult to complete larger missions (but certainly not impossible.) I must admit that my first reaction was pretty much the same as Seth's, but I can certainly see how it could be done (one of my testers has used the same strategy to good effect too.)

Quote:
Rule discussion:
- One we had a rule discussion and that was if it was possible to play the One for all card (get a new round), use it and get a mission (return the One for all card to the hand), use the One for all card to get a new round, get a mission, return the card to the hand (and so on). We ruled against it. You could only have two turns in a row.

The rules say:
Quote:
Once you have done everything you want to do, your turn is over. If you Completed a Mission during your turn then you can pick up your One for All! card and put it back into your hand. You cannot use the card to take another turn at this point.

This is not quite the same as versions that have been discussed in these forums previously!

Your comments about the graphic design are well made. Disregarding the "cartoon" character cards for the moment (they are very much fillers), the disparity between the mission cards and the board in terms of "look" is significant. I guess that I was more concerned with making the information (and there is lots of it) on the Mission card to be clear and useable rather than whether it fitted with an overall graphic style. Certainly your observation about the black-on-blue issue is in accord with other comments and I'm sure we'll try and think of a different way to do it. Meanwhile, the ruleset is definitely only in a "mid-stage" version. (Then again, if it was picked up by someone, it would get a makeover anyway!)

Once again, thanks for the report, and I shall be interested to see how you get on with a three-player game.

sedjtroll
sedjtroll's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/21/2008
Re: October 2005 test session - ALL FOR ONE

Scurra wrote:
Once again, thanks for the report, and I shall be interested to see how you get on with a three-player game.

As will I! I think you will find it a very different game.

- Seth

sedjtroll
sedjtroll's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/21/2008
Re: October 2005 test session - ALL FOR ONE

Johan wrote:
At the same time will we do a retest of All for One but this time with 3 players (Me, Agnes and Marcus). We will see if there will be a different result.

I just re-read this thread, and I wondered if this three player game ever occurred, and if so, how did it go?

- Seth

Johan
Johan's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/05/2008
October 2005 test session

No we did not :(
I shal see if we can squeze one in the weekend.

// Johan

Scurra
Scurra's picture
Offline
Joined: 09/11/2008
October 2005 test session

Hmmm. We might need to have some additional correspondence before you do...
(Although probably not until after Seth and I have had a brief argument, which is what usually happens ;-)

sedjtroll
sedjtroll's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/21/2008
October 2005 test session

I'd still be interested in seeing how a three player game with the "old" rules (the ones you have) plays for you. If you'd like an update of those rules (not including the latest addition Scurra's been testing), here's a link:
http://dakotacom.net/~sej/A41/AllForOne.pdf

- Seth

Syndicate content


forum | by Dr. Radut