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Terra Prime V1.5

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sedjtroll
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Terra Prime V1.5 [last updated 2/17/06]
A game of interstellar exploration and colonization for 2-5 players

Goal:
The goal of Terra Prime is to explore the space surrounding the Terra Prime outpost, Colonize and harvest the resources produced on the nearby planets, and protect the colonies from hostile aliens. Players gain Leadership (score points) by placing colonies, delivering resources to Terra Prime, and driving off or befriending hostile aliens. The value of colonies and the resources they produce increase the farther away from Terra Prime you get, but so do the dangers of exploration and the likelyhood of alien attack. Earth uses the harvested resources at a steady rate, and the value of each resource fluctuates depending on how much Earth has in supply.

Components:
14 green Space tiles depicting planets or deep space at each vertex
14 yellow Space tiles depicting planets, space, asteroids, or hostile aliens
14 red Space tiles depicting planets, space, asteroids, or hostile aliens
2 Outpost tiles depicting Terra Prime (one for 2/3 players, one for 4/5 players)
1 Earth board depicting Tech Upgrade tracks, Supply/Demand tracks for each resource, and a Leadership scoring track.
4 Cargo Ship tiles with spaces for 6/7/8/9 resources (for 2/3/4/5 players)
[I might incorporate this into the earth board]
15 Green resource cubes [need cute name]
15 Yellow resource cubes [need cute name]
15 Brown Uranium resource cubes
15 Red Einstienium resource cubes
15 Blue Dihydrogen Oxide resource cubes
5 Command Ships, 1 in each player color
5 Cargo Shuttle tiles
10 Shield tiles
10 Fuel Cell tiles
10 Cargo Hold tiles
10 Weapon tiles
5 Command Ship boards depicting a command ship, with slots for ship upgrades
80 Colony markers (glass stones), 16 in each player color
Supply of Credit chips labelled 1, 5, and 10
3 six-sided dice
Might add a deck of Mission cards for bonus scoring opportunities

Setup:
Place the appropriate Cargo Ship and Outpost tile (depending on the number of players) in the center of the play area. Sort the Space tiles into stacks by color, shuffle each stack, and deal them face down onto the play area as shown (see picture). Sort the supply of resource cubes and upgrade tiles by type and place them within reach of all players. Each player chooses a color and takes the Colony markers and Command Ship board of that color, placing 1 marker on the first space of each Tech Upgrade track. Place one player pawn in each players color on the Outpost tile, and the other on the scoring track. Randomly determine a start player.

Each player begins the game with 1 Fuel Cell, 1 Cargo Hold, and 1 Colony marker on their Command Ship, and 2 Credits. The Cargo Hold and Fuel Cell are considered 'built in' (as if pre-printed on the ship - indeed they may be in the future) and cannot be lost - they are not considered modules.

Rounds of Turns:
At the beginning of each round - that is to say each time it's the start player's turn - Earth consumes 1 of each resource. Remove the top cube in each of the Supply/Demand tracks on the Earth board. If there are no cubes on a track, then skip it. Turns then begin with the start player and pass from player to player clockwise around the table.

Player Turns:
At the beginning of each player's turn, before choosing actions, each Colony belonging to that player produces a resource cube of the appropriate type. Each colony can only hold 1 cube. If there is already a cube at a Colony, leave it there instead of producing. The player then chooses actions from the following list. Choose a number of actions equal to 1 plus the number of Fuel Cells on your Command Ship. Players must take all of their allotted actions.

Action List:
MOVE: Move from sector to sector along edges of the hex tiles. A sector is the vertex of three adjacent tiles. Treat the edges of the board as if they were tiles with nothing but deep space in their vertices. Move only to a sector that is fully explored, you cannot enter an unmapped sector with a Move action.

EXPLORE: A Move action into an unmapped sector. An unmapped sector is a sector containing a face down tile. Note that a player will never be presented with the opportunity to move to a sector with more than 1 face down tile in it. Turn over the face down tile and choose it's orientation to complete the sector. This could result in being attacked by hostile aliens, or having to brave an asteroid field, see Hostile Aliens and Asteroids below. Only 1 Explore action is allowed per turn.

When choosing orientation of a newly explored tile, the following rule applies: No two adjacent sectors may contain planets. Asteroid Fields may be placed in sectors adjacent to planets, and there can be multiple planets or asteroid fields in the same sector, but planets may not be placed in adjacent sectors. The sectors that comprise Terra Prime are considered planets for purposes of placing tiles.

COLLECT RESOURCES: Your Command Ship must be in the same sector as the colony to Collect Resources. Pick up the resource cube at the colony, and place it on one of your Cargo Hold tiles on your Command Ship board. If there is not enough room for the resource or upgrade in your cargo hold, then you may not collect it without first discarding something else. Discarding can be done at any time.

The owner of the colony receives 1 Leadership Point when an opponent collects a resource from their colony.

COLONIZE: Place a colony marker from your Command Ship on an unoccupied planet or asteroid field, and score Leadership points for the sector (see Scoring). Unoccupied means there is not already a colony in that sector. Your Command Ship must be in the same sector as the Colony.

Note that there can be only 1 Colony per sector, but there may be up to three planets/asteroid fields per sector. When placing the Colony, choose which planet to put it on, that will determine the resources the colony produces and the upgrades available at that Colony.

Asteroid Fields can be mined for valuable minerals. A Mine can be established in an Asteroid by placing a colony marker from your Command Ship there as a Colonize action. Your Command Ship must be in the sector with the Asteroid Field to do this. The Mine does not count as a colony and does not score Leadership points at the end of the game. Owning the mine makes the sector less dangerous for you to pass through.

When a planet occurs in the same sector as a mine, the sector is worth Leadership points as normal: 2 points per planet (Asteroid Fields don't count) plus 1 per sector back to the Outpost. A mine in a sector by itself scores nothing.

DELIVER RESOURCES: Place any number of resource cubes from your cargo holds onto the Cargo Ship and collect the appropriate Credit reward for each based on the supply and demand tracks. Each time the Cargo Ship fills up, it ships back to Earth and empties, and the S/D track for each resource is updated. Your Command Ship must be at Terra Prime to deliver resources. You may have more resources to deliver than there are available slots on the Cargo Ship. Only the resources that fit on the Cargo Ship may be delivered. When the Cargo Ship fills, it is not available again until the next turn.

UPGRADE SHIP/INSTALL MODULE:

    Modules: Ship upgrade modules are available at planets*. Each color planet has a particular module it can supply. In order to install a module, discard the required Credits and place the Module tile in one of the appropriate slots on your Command Ship board. Modules cost 1 Credit, plus 1 Credit for each module of the same type already installed. For example, the first Shield module costs 1 Credit, while the third Weapon module costs 3 Credits. Players are allowed a maximum of 1 module per planet per visit.

The owner of the colony receives 1 Leadership Point when an opponent installs a module at their colony.

* Weapon Modules are purchased at Terra Prime, not at a planet. All other Modules are purchased at planets, not at Terra Prime.

Command Ships begin with the capacity to install 2 of each module. To install more than 2 of any module, players must invest in Tech Upgrades.

Tech Upgrades: Tech Upgrades are available at Terra Prime. In order to install a Tech Upgrade, discard the required Resources and move your marker to the next space on the appropriate upgrade track. Players are allowed 1 Tech upgrade per tech track per visit to Terra Prime

Available Modules and Upgrades:

    Cargo Hold: Each Command Ship starts with 1 Cargo Hold, but the capacity to install only 2. Each cargo hold can store up to 2 resources. Command Ships have space for 4 cargo holds. Tech Upgrades: 1. Max 4 Cargo Holds, 2a. Cargo Shuttle (see below), 2b. Cryo Chamber (see below)

Fuel Cell: Each Command Ship starts with 1 Fuel Cell, but the capacity to install only 2. During their turn, players get 1 action plus 1 action per Fuel Cell. Command Ships have space for 4 Fuel Cells.
Tech Upgrades: 1. Max 4 Fuel Cells, 2. 1 Additional Explore action allowed per turn, 3. Additional action per turn

Weapons: Weapons help repel hostile aliens. Each Command Ship has space for 4 Weapons, but the capacity to install only 2.
Tech Upgrades: 1. Max 4 Weapons upgrades, 2. 1 Additional die per attack, 3. hits scored on 3+ (i.l.o. 4+)

Shields: Shields help avoid damage from asteroid fields and hostile alien attacks. Each Command Ship has space for 4 Shields, but the capacity to install only 2.
Tech Upgrades: 1. Max 4 Shield upgrades, 2. 1 Additional die per attack, 3. hits cancelled on 4+ (i.l.o. 5+)

Cargo Shuttle: A Cargo Shuttle requires 2 empty Cargo Holds (4 cargo slots), but can hold 3 Resource cubes. It can be sent to Terra Prime to deliver cubes. Play this ability as a Deliver Resources action, but your Command Ship need not be at Terra Prime. Discard the Cargo Shuttle after delivering resources.

If the resources delivered via the Cargo Shuttle fill the Cargo Ship, then any excess is moved to the Earth Board as well. Receive Credits for each resource as if they all fit on the Cargo Ship.

Cryo Chamber: Command Ships can normally carry 1 Colony marker at a time. A Cryo Chamber upgrade increases that capacity to 3 Colony markers. REFILL CRYO CHAMBER: Refill the Cryo Chamber on your Command Ship. Basic Command Ships can hold 1 Colony marker, while Upgraded Cryo Chambers can hold 3.

USE SATELLITE SCANNER: Peek at any face down tile. Your Command Ship must be at Terra Prime to use the satellite scanner.

PASS: Do nothing. Your Command Ship stays were it is. Hostile Aliens:
Hostile Aliens lurk in the deep reaches of space, but they steer clear of Federation outposts. The green space tiles, which are placed nearest to Terra Prime, are safe from alien presence. When exploring Yellow space tiles it is increasingly likely that aliens will attack, and in the Red space tiles the aliens are more likely to appear and they are more vicious as well.

When a Space tile is drawn during the Explore action, it may or may not have any Alien symbols in the center of it. Alien symbols indicate a Hostile Alien attack.

Alien Attack: For each Alien symbol on the tile, roll 1d6. For each 4, 5, or 6 rolled, the Aliens score a hit. Then, for each Shield module roll 1d6. For each 5 or 6 rolled, cancel 1 Alien hit. For each hit that was not cancelled, discard 1 Module from your Command Ship. If you have no modules, then lose 3 Leadership Points. The starting Fuel Cell and Cargo Hold cannot be lost.

    Fighting back: For each Weapon module, roll 1d6. For every 4, 5, or 6 rolled, score 1 hit against the Aliens. If you score at least as many hits against aliens as there are Alien symbols on the tile, you have defeated the aliens. Put one of your Colony markers from the supply on the Alien symbols, they no longer have any effect on the game. Score 3 Leadership Points per Alien Symbol on the tile.

When a tile is explored, the Alien attack occurs first. For tiles already mapped with Aliens present, a player may use their weapons (or diplomacy - see below) first. For each successful hit, the Aliens roll 1 less die for their attack, even if the player fails to defeat them.

Aliens only attack once, and players only get to fight back once per action. A player intending to defeat the Aliens may Pass as their next action and attack the Aliens again. Note that in this case, all the symbols are to be considered - even if one was 'hit' during the previous action.

Diplomacy: A player may try Diplomatic means to befriend the aliens. Instead of fighting back, a player may offer resources to the aliens. Discard any number of resource cubes from your Cargo Holds to attempt to befriend the aliens. Roll 1d6 per discarded resource cube. Each 4, 5, or 6 counts as 1 Successful Negotiation with the aliens. If you get as many Successful Negotiations as there are alien symbols on the tile, then you have befriended the aliens. Put one of your Colony markers from the supply on the Alien symbols, they no longer have any effect on the game. Score 3 Leadership Points per Alien Symbol on the tile. At the end of each action, if a Command Ship is in a sector adjacent to Hostile Aliens, the aliens attack as described above.

Asteroid Fields and Stray Asteroids:
Some space tiles have Asteroid symbols. Symbols may appear in the vertex of a Space tile, or in the center. Asteroid Fields occur in a vertex and are located in a particular sector. Stray Asteroids occur in the center of a Space tile and are only considered when that tile is revealed.

Treat Stray Asteroids as an alien attack. Roll as many dice as there are Asteroids depicted in the center of the tile. You may not fight back, irrespective of Weapon upgrades. You may not befriend Stray Asteroids. Shield modules do apply to cancel hits from asteroids.

Once the tile is explored, a Stray Asteroid has no effect on the game. Whenever a Command Ship enters a sector with an Asteroid Field in it, treat it as an alien attack. Roll 1 die for each asteroid depicted in the Asteroid Field. Roll one die less if you have colonized the sector containing the Asteroid Field. Every 4, 5, or 6 rolled is a potential hit. Then roll 1 die for each Shield module. For each 5 or 6 rolled, cancel 1 hit. Discard a module from your Command Ship for each uncancelled hit. If you have no modules, then lose 3 Leadership Points. The starting Fuel Cell and Cargo Hold cannot be lost.

Game End:
The game end is triggered by the following occurances...
1. Any player places a colony marker such that they have only 2 remaining between their supply and their Command Ship, or
2. When the last yellow Space tile is explored.

Once the game end is triggered, each player takes 1 more turn and then the game ends - the last player to play will be the player who triggered the game end.

Scoring:
During the game, players score Leadership points as follows:
For each colony placed, determine the shortest path to Terra Prime. Score 1 Leadership Point for each sector along that path - not including the sector the colony is in, but including the Terra Prime outpost - plus 2 Leadership Points for each planet in the colonized sector. Asteroid Fields do not add to the Leadership value of a colony. Mines without planets in the sector score no points. Mines with planets in the sector score normally as a colony.

For each Colony marker you have on a Hostile Alien tile, score 3 Leadership Points per Alien Symbol.

At the end of the game, score 1 Leadership Point per Credit chip.

There might be a Mission score as well, for bonuses from Mission cards

The player with the most Leadership is the winner, and gets promoted to Lieutenant!

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sedjtroll
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Terra Prime: Building the tiles

Well, I happen to have some hex tiles I made for a proto of Three Kingdoms, so in an effort to expedite a proto of Terra Prime I will use those. They have Green, Red, and Yellow backs, and there appears to be 14 of each of them.

This brings up an important question: how many hexes is enough? For now, I'll use these hexes, and have the board extend in just 1 direction from the Terra Prime outpost. In the future I might approximately double the number and allow expansion in any direction.

Here's a picture of what the board might look like at the beginning of the game. The white hexes will actually be 1 connected piece that represents Terra Prime. The Green, Yellow, and Red hexes represent space that can be explored. When placing a Space Tile, place one from the appropriate stack, depending on where it's going on the board. In general, the tiles near Terra Prime (green) are "safe", they have no hostile aliens and few Asteroids. They will also have sparse planet population - as soon as I design the tiles! The Yellow hexes are for yellow Space Tiles, which have a few Aliens, and more Asteroids, and more planets. The Red hexes are for Red space tiles, which are the most dangerous because they have more and stronger aliens and asteroids, but they also have planets that produce rare resources, and colonizing the 'redzone' means more points (as it's farther away from TP).

The next question is, how many of each type of planet should go in each 'zone'? Also, how many asteroids and aliens?

I have added the following rules on tile placement and colonization to make the game more interesting:
1. Planets may not be placed in a sector adjacent to a sector that already contains a planet. This forces colonies to be 2 spaces apart. I guess this is similar to how Settlements can't be adjacent in Settlers. It also forces planets to be grouped 2 or 3 to a sector, which might make the next point interesting...

2. Only 1 colony can be placed in a sector. When placed, the color of the planet colonized defines the type of resource produced by that colony, as well as the type of ship upgrade available at that colony. I'm considering the alternative that on your tutn, your colonies produce not the color their on, but ANY color available in the sector where there colony is, but that the actual planet the colony is on defines which ship upgrades are available. I'm not sure which I prefer at the moment - comments welcome!

3. It should be noted that each colony produces goods at the beginning of the owner's turn... however ANY player can collect goods from any colony. This is because all players work for the federation and they're 'all on the same team'.

Please reply with comments or questions on this game, as I'd like to see a playtest of it soon!

Thanks,
Seth

Xaqery
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Terra Prime V1.5

Hi Seth -

I just read it all again.

Firstly nice job on this write-up. It is clearly a concise abstract of the game and ideas from one board game enthusiast to another.

Random thoughts:

I am not sure what you mean by:
5 six-sided Alien dice [or, 1 yellow, six-sided Alien die with 5 blank faces and 1 alien face; and 1 red, six-sided Alien die with 4 blank faces and 2 alien faces] but not sure it matters at this point.

I like the theme.

Thematically why does it cost more at Tera-prime to upgrade? It seems like it should be cheaper.

Quote:
Should it be that Shields go first, then Fuel Cells? Or should the player be able to choose?

Letting the player decide sounds good at this point.

DELIVER RESOURCES : I was thinking that delivering from the red should be worth more than yellow and Yellow should be worth more than green. Maybe you already have this and I just missed it.

I like the Colonization score at the end. Its a game of do I make several close outpost or a couple far ones. It reminds of the Qix style video game where you try and large boxes but while you do you are in danger. If you just make small boxes you get less points but can finish the level and move on. It is this reason I think maybe you could make the scoring more exponential. An out post 3 away is worth 6 VPs; 1+2+3 = 6. 4 away is worth 10; 1+2+3+4 = 10.

I think this has great potential for tension if balanced well. With each action further from SAFE BASE the dangers increase and the so do the rewards exponentially.

Quote:
This brings up an important question: how many hexes is enough?

So the answer to this question becomes where is infinity? I think 5 or 6 levels out might do it. So maybe two rows of yellow and two or red. At 5 levels an outpost would be 15 VPs and at 6 21 VPs quickly getting close to as high as you should go to maintain some balance. The key will be making the dangers equally heart pounding.

Quote:
The next question is, how many of each type of planet should go in each 'zone'? Also, how many asteroids and aliens?

Like I stated earlier I think planets that give more expensive goods should be farther away. Since each farther ring has more and more hexes I think you can have the same number of encounters in each color. This will make space more sparce maybe creating more tension. There is a certain amount of fun in flipping over a tile. You can milk the suspense this way I feel. Not sure that really answers your question.

Good luck with it and keep the updates coming.

- Dwight

Rick-Holzgrafe
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Terra Prime V1.5

I have no problem with the hazards presented by aliens and asteroids, but I'm concerned about the amount of dice-rolling needed to resolve the encounter. Rolling one at a time, or counting pips and trying to remember the rules, will bog down the game.

I think you need as many alien dice as the maximum number of aliens that can attack at once. Each face of an alien die should either be blank, or show a an alien icon: a blank is a miss. You also need as many shield dice as the maximum number of shield upgrades a Command Ship can have, and as many weapon dice as the maximum number of weapons upgrades. This allows your players to resolve an encounter by grabbing the right numbers of dice, making a single throw, and counting icons. (Maybe this is what you were planning -- like Dwight, I couldn't quite follow the mention of "alien dice" in the Components list.)

sedjtroll
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Terra Prime V1.5

Xaqery wrote:
I just read it all again.
Thanks for your input! I'll see what I can answer or respond to:

Quote:
Firstly nice job on this write-up. It is clearly a concise abstract of the game and ideas from one board game enthusiast to another.
Thanks! It's fun, and I think this game might really work.

Quote:
I am not sure what you mean by:
5 six-sided Alien dice [or, 1 yellow, six-sided Alien die with 5 blank faces and 1 alien face; and 1 red, six-sided Alien die with 4 blank faces and 2 alien faces] but not sure it matters at this point.

You cought me! Combat was going to work differently. I was discussing it in the chat room, and had worked out a system. I wrote the component list out as such for the post. Then later when I went in and posted the Alien section, I had an idea I liked better for the combat (as detailed above). I didn't think to change the components. I've updated it now. Nice catch!

Quote:
I like the theme.
Thanks, me too ;)

Quote:
Thematically why does it cost more at Terra-prime to upgrade? It seems like it should be cheaper.

The reason it costs more is because you can get any upgrade you want, rather than just the one that's avaliable. So for the flexibility (and convenience) you have to pay.

Quote:
Quote:
Should it be that Shields go first, then Fuel Cells? Or should the player be able to choose?

Letting the player decide sounds good at this point.

I like letting the player choose, but maybe it makes more sense to force it? I dunno. Guess it's not important at this stage.

Quote:
DELIVER RESOURCES : I was thinking that delivering from the red should be worth more than yellow and Yellow should be worth more than green. Maybe you already have this and I just missed it.

That's sorta built into the design of the tiles. There's a resource that's only on planets on Red tiles for example, and there aren't as many of those planets. So it's more rare, and harder to get. Thus, the Earth demand track will be such that the reward is better for that resource. Kinda like in Power Grid how the Uranium is on a different rtack than the coal - with a different price schedule and refresh rate.... know what I mean?

Quote:
I like the Colonization score at the end. Its a game of do I make several close outpost or a couple far ones. It reminds of the Qix style video game where you try and large boxes but while you do you are in danger.

I Love that game! I only had 2 games on my Game Boy, Qix and Tetris. And Tetris came with it!

Quote:
If you just make small boxes you get less points but can finish the level and move on. It is this reason I think maybe you could make the scoring more exponential. An out post 3 away is worth 6 VPs; 1+2+3 = 6. 4 away is worth 10; 1+2+3+4 = 10.

Hmm... that's a VERY interesting idea indeed! I dunno if that would be completely unbalanced or not, but it's worth thinking about for certain!

Quote:
I think this has great potential for tension if balanced well. With each action further from SAFE BASE the dangers increase and the so do the rewards exponentially.
That's pretty much what I was going for, so maybe exponential increase is the thing! However, if you look at the board I'm thinking of (the pdf linked), it's not all that big. I don't know if that makes any difference on way or another.

Quote:
Quote:
This brings up an important question: how many hexes is enough?
So the answer to this question becomes where is infinity? I think 5 or 6 levels out might do it. So maybe two rows of yellow and two or red. At 5 levels an outpost would be 15 VPs and at 6 21 VPs quickly getting close to as high as you should go to maintain some balance. The key will be making the dangers equally heart pounding.

This is where I think the numbers might be getting too big. It seems 'easier' to keep everything small and compact, so the game is more about the choices than the numbers... but maybe it'd be more fun if it were bigger - more to explore, more exciting fights...

Quote:
Quote:
The next question is, how many of each type of planet should go in each 'zone'? Also, how many asteroids and aliens?

Like I stated earlier I think planets that give more expensive goods should be farther away. Since each farther ring has more and more hexes I think you can have the same number of encounters in each color. This will make space more sparce maybe creating more tension.

Yeah, that's what I have in mind.

Quote:
Good luck with it and keep the updates coming.

Will do! Thanks for the comments!

sedjtroll
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Terra Prime V1.5

Rick-Holzgrafe wrote:
I have no problem with the hazards presented by aliens and asteroids, but I'm concerned about the amount of dice-rolling needed to resolve the encounter. Rolling one at a time, or counting pips and trying to remember the rules, will bog down the game.

I agree, that sounds like a lot of rolling. I have the tiles set up (I just did this while watching TV) such that there are at most 3 aliens, that's why I picked 3 dice. I figure you roll the aliens, count the hits. Roll the shields, cancel the hits. Then roll weapons if you got 'em. Seems pretty simple to me, but then again, specialty dice would also be cool!

Xaqery
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Terra Prime V1.5

sedjtroll wrote:

Quote:
Thematically why does it cost more at Terra-prime to upgrade? It seems like it should be cheaper.

The reason it costs more is because you can get any upgrade you want, rather than just the one that's avaliable. So for the flexibility (and convenience) you have to pay.

I understand completly from a game-design POV. What I was concerned about was it felt strange that the place that thematicly was good at upgrading and was safe from hostiles ect cost you more to get them for no apparent reason.

sedjtroll wrote:

Quote:
DELIVER RESOURCES : I was thinking that delivering from the red should be worth more than yellow and Yellow should be worth more than green. Maybe you already have this and I just missed it.

That's sorta built into the design of the tiles. There's a resource that's only on planets on Red tiles for example, and there aren't as many of those planets. So it's more rare, and harder to get. Thus, the Earth demand track will be such that the reward is better for that resource. Kinda like in Power Grid how the Uranium is on a different rtack than the coal - with a different price schedule and refresh rate.... know what I mean?

I do.

- Dwight

doho123
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Terra Prime V1.5

Quote:
DELIVER RESOURCES : I was thinking that delivering from the red should be worth more than yellow and Yellow should be worth more than green. Maybe you already have this and I just missed it.

Actually, depending on the level of detail geekness, shouldn't the value of resources in the red area (compared to the SAME resources in closer colors) be worth LESS, due to the extra cost of shipping from greater distances?

sedjtroll
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Terra Prime V1.5

Xaqery wrote:
I understand completly from a game-design POV. What I was concerned about was it felt strange that the place that thematicly was good at upgrading and was safe from hostiles ect cost you more to get them for no apparent reason.

Well, maybe look at it this way... it's not 'more expensive' to upgrade at Terra Prime... it's just cheaper to fmake the stuff at your colony ;)

sedjtroll
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Terra Prime V1.5

doho123 wrote:
Quote:
DELIVER RESOURCES : I was thinking that delivering from the red should be worth more than yellow and Yellow should be worth more than green. Maybe you already have this and I just missed it.
Actually, depending on the level of detail geekness, shouldn't the value of resources in the red area (compared to the SAME resources in closer colors) be worth LESS, due to the extra cost of shipping from greater distances?
Well, actually this is maybe built in as well, as people will likely deliver the 'closer' resources first, so the same resource from farther out earns you fewer VPs. That's sorta like making it worth less, or a sort of 'cost' for shipping farther :)

Xaqery
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Terra Prime V1.5

doho123 wrote:
Quote:
DELIVER RESOURCES : I was thinking that delivering from the red should be worth more than yellow and Yellow should be worth more than green. Maybe you already have this and I just missed it.

Actually, depending on the level of detail geekness, shouldn't the value of resources in the red area (compared to the SAME resources in closer colors) be worth LESS, due to the extra cost of shipping from greater distances?

I agree. I meant STUFF you get in the dangerous regions would be differnt and more valuable. So players could constantly weigh should I go for the less valuable stuff nearby or risk it.

setarcos
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Terra Prime V1.2

Seth,

I’m having trouble with the PM. So I’ll just post this “in the open”.

Ditto what Xaqery said: excellent write-up!

I like this kind of “Civ-building” game. The economy mechanic setting the value of each resource based on how much of it is already available is one I especially like in a game.

This sounds like a 4X game without any direct conflict between players, just conflict with a couple of the game elements: aliens and asteroids.

But I wonder if that provides enough player interaction. Maybe you could add trading or some kind of co-operation mechanic to keep it from feeling to much like a mere race or multi-player solitaire game.

Quote:
Should it be that Shileds go first, then Fuel Cells? Or should the player be able to choose?

Thematically I think it works best if Shields go first. But after that it would be neat if there was some way to randomly choose which of the other Upgrades were lost next. Maybe a spinner would work best. If you spin an Upgrade not present on the ship, you go clockwise around the spinner to the next Upgrade type until you come to one that is on the ship. (On the other hand, maybe this kind of event-resolution would just lengthen the game. Just thought I’d throw the idea out there...)

Overall, I like the sound of this one a lot. It seems like there are never enough good Space-exploration themed games out there.

When do we get to test-play?

doho123
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Terra Prime V1.5

Have you had a chance to play Starfarers of Catan? There are some similarities here (go off into space, get resources from planets to upgrade your ships in a Catan format). however, one of the more interesting aspects is the inclusion of event cards which let's you have a variety of encounters (as opposed to your asteroid/alien encounters).

Anyway, one of the ways to earn victory points is, for all practical purposes, Courage Points. So you'll get an Event card that states "Another ship sends you a distress signal that it's falling into a sun, do you rescue it?" And then if you choose to rescue them, there are many outcomes depending on the state of your ship, if it's pirates faking people out, or whatever, and results can end in gaining or losing VP, or gaining new parts or losing parts.

sedjtroll
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Terra Prime V1.5

doho123 wrote:
Have you had a chance to play Starfarers of Catan?

Actually, no... but perhaps while designing a space colonization type game I ought to check it out as 'research', huh?
Quote:
There are some similarities here (go off into space, get resources from planets to upgrade your ships in a Catan format). however, one of the more interesting aspects is the inclusion of event cards which let's you have a variety of encounters (as opposed to your asteroid/alien encounters).

I'm not sure event cards are the way I want to go with this one. Although I might need to add something to spice up the game and make it more fun. I'd like to instead concentrate on the decisions regarding where to colonize and whether to get upgrades, or collect resources (and which ones!), which upgrades to get, whether to explore deep space or stick close to the Outpost...

Quote:
Anyway, one of the ways to earn victory points is, for all practical purposes, Courage Points. So you'll get an Event card that states "Another ship sends you a distress signal that it's falling into a sun, do you rescue it?" And then if you choose to rescue them, there are many outcomes depending on the state of your ship, if it's pirates faking people out, or whatever, and results can end in gaining or losing VP, or gaining new parts or losing parts.
The question quickly becomes, how does one go about rescuing them? Or do you just say yes or no? I'm afraid that would shift the focus of the game away from what I'm trying to accomplish.

Right now, I imagine the player interaction will come from:
(a) Competition for Colonization space,
(b) Competition for resources
(c) Buying upgrades (I'm currently considering that you buy upgrades from the player who owns the colony you buy it at, and the currency is VPs)
(d) Competition in delivering Resources.

You know, perhaps a player should have to pay a VP to pick up a resource from another player as well... a minor point, but might make a big difference in your decision to visit someone else's colony.

I suspect this game would have the feel of a euro strategy game, not an american space battle game. And in fact, it'sn ot a space battle game at all, but a colonization and resource gathering game. Players don't fight each other because they're all on the same team.

This morning I thought perhaps players should be able to trade or 'buy' resources from each other - again the currency being VPs.

So event cards, if added, would probably have to have the effect of impacting the decisions I mentioned earlier. Maybe they make a resource more or less available, maybe they make upgrades more or less expensive to buy, thatkind of thing. I suppose there could be something akin to an Alien Attack (maybe call it something else, but resolve it like an Alien Attack or Asteroid - like rescuing a ship from an asteroid field), which if successful would earn the player points...

Any more thoughts on this?

- Seth

sedjtroll
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Missions and other updates

Missions
Doho mentioned Event cards. I'm not sure I want those in the game at the moment, but in thinking of the idea - maybe a Mission deck would be a good fit with the theme... Drawing a Mission card (which could be an Action at Terra Prime for example) would give a player the opportunity to complete the mission for points. I don't know what the missions might be... maybe "Colonize 3 planets of type X" or "Colonize 1 of each type of planet and an Asteroid" for bonus VPs if you meet the criteria. Another type of Mission could be to address a Hostile Alien threat. When prepared, you play the card (maybe you have to be in the 'red zone') and resolve the combat - which would be just like an Alien attack, but with more bad guys, and maybe you could fight multiple rounds of combat until you either retreat, discarding the card, or win, keeping the card for a VP bonus.

I imagine these cards would work similarly to the Prestige cards in Princes of Florence, where they give you some goal to work towards, and a bonus for achieving it.

Any thoughts on this?

Upgrade mechanics
Mylatest thoughts on obtaining upgrades is this: At the beginning of your turn, each of your colonies produces EITHER a resource of the appropriate type OR an upgrade of the appropriate type - as long as there's one in the supply. Then, when a player arrives at a Colony, they can buy the upgrade, paying VPs and/or resources (depending on the upgrade) to the player who owns the colony.

Along thoes lines, perhaps a player picking up a resource at another player's colony ought to pay that player 1 VP (or at least, the player who's colony it is could earn 1 vp from the supply). Caylus has a similar mechanic where players can buy buildings and anyone can use them... you use your own building for free, and when other players use your building you earn a VP. For the record, we had this 'anyone can pick up resources from any colony' thing going on well before I'd ever heard of Caylus!

Questions that I'm asking about purchasing upgrades:
1. What should they cost? I think Shields should be cheap and plentiful, otherwise it may be too difficult to get out to the Yellow zone. Then again, maybe you just wait until other players explore it, so as to avoid stray asteroids, and then just follow up - with the down side that an asteroid in a colony might sort of block your route (this was the original intent). that said, I think I just turned 180 degrees and think shields should be a little scarce. However if anyone expects to explore the Red zone and fight aliens, they should be able to get a number of shield upgrades or they'll get owned.

Maybe the shields should cost more for each one you get - like your first Shield upgrade costs x, the next one costs X+Y ... whatever X and Y are. I think Sheilds should be available in the Green and Yellow zones.

I think Fuel Cells should be unavailable in the green zone, to make people expore out at least to the Yellow zone before they can really mobilize. I think that'll set the beginning of the game apart from the later portion because people will be able to do a lot more as they zip around. Maybe these too should cost more the more you get. I don't know if that makes sense thematically though.

I think Cargo upgrades should be available in either the Green or Yellow zones I guess. I can't think of a good reason either way, so I guess it doesn't matter. Should this cost anything in particular?

I think Weapons should be available only in the Red zone. So if you want to explore the dangerous stuff, you probably want to get some shields to fend off aliens and asteroids, then find a planet in the red zone to get weapons, then you can start to fight back. Being that difficut to get, I don't think these should cost anything but the action to pick it up.

And finally I think Cargo Shuttles should be available only at Terra Prime, but should cost some of the resource found on Asteroids.

Any thought on this??

Rick-Holzgrafe
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Re: Missions and other updates

sedjtroll wrote:
At the beginning of your turn, each of your colonies produces EITHER a resource of the appropriate type OR an upgrade of the appropriate type - as long as there's one in the supply. Then, when a player arrives at a Colony, they can buy the upgrade, paying VPs and/or resources (depending on the upgrade) to the player who owns the colony.

Sounds good. Does the active player make the choice of resource vs. upgrade?

I like the idea that players can take resources and upgrades from anyone's colony, for a price. Games in which you can't easily benefit yourself without benefitting someone else often create agonizing decisions for the players.

sedjtroll wrote:
I think Shields should be cheap and plentiful ...or... Maybe the shields should cost more for each one you get

I think Shields should be reasonably cheap and available. The reason is that battle with aliens can destroy your Shields. Exactly how cheap is a tuning knob to tweak during playtest. If you employ a price increase, it should be based on the number of shields you already have installed, not on the total number you've purchased over the course of the game: again, because aliens destroy them. Your thematic justification is that the second and third shields require beefier power supplies because they are "outer shields" that extend out past the inner shield. They're not intrinsically stronger, but they have to enclose a larger volume.

sedjtroll wrote:
I think Fuel Cells should be unavailable in the green zone ... I don't know if that makes sense thematically though.

Fuel cells unavailable in the Green Zone is good. It's because gas stations are so close together in the Green Zone that nobody needs extra fuel cells. Or something. "Thematic, schmematic."

sedjtroll wrote:
I think Cargo upgrades should be available in either the Green or Yellow zones I guess. I can't think of a good reason either way, so I guess it doesn't matter. Should this cost anything in particular?

Cargo upgrades and weapons should cost something just because all the other upgrades cost something. Tweak the price during playtest.

sedjtroll wrote:
I think Weapons should be available only in the Red zone.

Sure.

sedjtroll wrote:
And finally I think Cargo Shuttles should be available only at Terra Prime, but should cost some of the resource found on Asteroids.

Sounds good. I like the way you're using availability to influence the story arc, and the prices are all good balance knobs you can tune.

Xaqery
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Terra Prime V1.5

Mission cards are good spice but they need to be inline. Meaning they should not be optional. I found in Space Pirates Tycoon (my space cargo game) that if players had the option they never choose to do a mission opting instead to complete their goals. So we changed the rule so that you were always on a mission. Each turn then became do I work toward my goals or do I try and complete this mission, adding more tension. I am not saying to do this. I am saying you can do a mechanic where all of a sudden the player is on a mission. Like in Starfarers of Catan the events / missions are thrust upon you.

Upgrade mechanics
I have two thoughts.

1 - When I was reading "Along those lines, perhaps a player picking up a resource at another player's colony ought to pay that player 1 VP..." my thought was allow the players to set the price, up to some cap. Allow the players to undercut each other and or starve someone out. Or they are undercutting the prices set by earth at Tera firma. This might not work for you but it was just a thought. It will let players interact some.

2 - If the items to buy are not commonly available early you might get people playing the game the same as each other each time. If they are more readily available early on then players can decide which path they like best and play that one. The difference being that my path might be different from yours but be equally viable. It’s just another thought.

- Dwight

sedjtroll
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Terra Prime V1.5

Xaqery wrote:
Each turn then became do I work toward my goals or do I try and complete this mission, adding more tension. I am not saying to do this. I am saying you can do a mechanic where all of a sudden the player is on a mission. Like in Starfarers of Catan the events / missions are thrust upon you.

The missions I have in mind would be more like a bonus or give you direction, not create tension in and of themselves. The tension is supposed to come from the need to get different resources at different times for different reasons. I don't know if that comes across though.

Quote:
1 - When I was reading "Along those lines, perhaps a player picking up a resource at another player's colony ought to pay that player 1 VP..." my thought was allow the players to set the price, up to some cap. Allow the players to undercut each other and or starve someone out. Or they are undercutting the prices set by earth at Tera firma. This might not work for you but it was just a thought. It will let players interact some.

My concern here is that the player might want to 'reserve' the unit for himself by just settingthe price high.

However, if they ALSO have to pay the price in VPs to get the Resopurce, then maybe that works. It wouldn't work too well with the way the game is currently - that the player can discard the expensive item and produce a new one at the beginning of their turn. But that could be changed... but any way I can think of to change it causes other problems... A big part of th game, I think, is that you can pick up other people's resources. Costing some points might be interesting, but even that might discourage the action.

Perhaps that means the best answer is to simply give the opponent a VP by taking their resource.

Quote:
The difference being that my path might be different from yours but be equally viable.

That's certainly what I'm after! Thanks again for the comments.

Johan
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Terra Prime V1.5

Hi

I have read the rules and tried to understand the game flow. I have some small questions to continue with the reading (and fully understand the game). I have not read the whole discussion yet.

I understand that you have never tested the game, but what is the estimated game time (1 hour, 2 hours or more)?

Resources
What I understand from the discussion, is that resources are created for mine colonies in the beginning of my turn, but any command ship can pick up the resources.
According to the rules you need a Command ship for picking up resources in a colony?

Cargo ship
Is cargo ships upgrades. Can I create more of them out in space or do I have to pick them up at Terra prime? Can I create one in space, send it to Terra Prime with Cargo. Destroy the ship and create a new ship in space (never return to Terra Prime)?
Is picking up a Cargo ship at terra Prime an action?

Ship upgrade
Can the ship have any number of cargo bays, fuel cells, weapons, shields, Cargo Shuttles?

Aliens
I don’t get the battle. Can I loose my Command ship due to battle or asteroids? If so how do I get it back/ if not why should I not just go around and try to defeat aliens without any upgrades at all?
How many turns of attacks can I do in my turn (1 or any number until 1 side is beaten)?
When I win against an Alien, I build a colony there. According to the rules I have to build or...?

I will be back.

// Johan

sedjtroll
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Terra Prime V1.5

Johan wrote:
I understand that you have never tested the game, but what is the estimated game time (1 hour, 2 hours or more)?

I'm not sure, but I'm hoping it'll be 90 minutes or less. I am unsure abou tthe game end conditions, they are sort of placeholders until I find something better.

Quote:
Resources
What I understand from the discussion, is that resources are created for mine colonies in the beginning of my turn, but any command ship can pick up the resources.
According to the rules you need a Command ship for picking up resources in a colony?

You are correct. At the beginning of each player's turn, THEIR colonies will produce. Players move their Command Ship (this is the player marker) around to pick up resources. You only pick up resources in the sector where your ship is, so yes, you have to be there with your Command Ship in order to collect the resource.

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Cargo ship
Is cargo ships upgrades.
The cargo ship is a repository on Terra Prime where players deliver their resource cubes. The cargo shuttle is an upgrade that allows you to unload some resources at TP without actually going there with your command ship. I think I need new names for these things.
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Can I create more of them out in space or do I have to pick them up at Terra prime?
My latest thought on this is that the Cargo Shuttle upgrade will only be available to purchase at Terra Prime, but will cost some of the resource you can only find in the "red zone", or else the resource that's only found on Asteroids.
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Can I create one in space, send it to Terra Prime with Cargo. Destroy the ship and create a new ship in space (never return to Terra Prime)?
The original intent was that each player has a maximum of 2 they can purchase, and once sent the Shuttle will sit at Terra Prime, waiting for you to pick it up. A player is not required to pick up the shuttle, however after buying the second shuttle (they use up 2 bays each), the Command Ship would not be able to collect resources anymore. It was never inteded that you could destroy a Shuttle. However it may be easier to ust say that the Shuttles are temporary to begin with - when you purchase one it takes up 2 Cargo Bays while on your ship and has a capacity of 3, and once you send it to TP, it goes away and you have your Cargo Bays back... thus you have to purchase a new one whenever you want to use it. In any case, players will still have to return to Terra Prime at some point - unless they don't care to deliver any resources. For example one could spend the later part of the game exploring and fighint Aliens and Colonizing the Red Zone, thus scoring good points without shipping anything.
Is picking up a Cargo ship at terra Prime an action?

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Ship upgrade
Can the ship have any number of cargo bays, fuel cells, weapons, shields, Cargo Shuttles?
Flagships (better name for "Command Ship") will have limited slots for these upgrades. Perhpas some slots will be for either of 2 upgrades.

Quote:
Aliens
I don’t get the battle. Can I loose my Command ship due to battle or asteroids? If so how do I get it back/ if not why should I not just go around and try to defeat aliens without any upgrades at all?
You can never lose your Flagship, and you can never win a battle with fewer Weapons upgrades than the number of Aliens (which I just realized might cause a problem - maybe the flagships have to have a built in 1 attack, so you roll a number of dice equal to 1+ number of weapons upgrades)
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How many turns of attacks can I do in my turn (1 or any number until 1 side is beaten)?
Combat is 1 round. You roll the alien attack and your shields to see if you take damage, then you roll your attack, then it's over.
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When I win against an Alien, I build a colony there. According to the rules I have to build or...?
You place a colony marker, so that's 1 less colony you can build. Yes, you must do so. You will score points for that at the end of the game. It's never the case that you can screw yourself by 'accidentally' winning a combat - you never HAVE to attack back.

Thanks for reading it! I look forward to your further comments.

sedjtroll
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Possible Mission Cards

First off, let me say that I am not ready to add Mission Cards at all until after a playtest to see if I even think it's worth the trouble.

That said, here's the type of missions I've got in mind. They are sort of like goals which award VPs if you meet the correct conditions. Princes of Florence has Prestige cards that are similar, and Twlight Empirium does as well.

All cards except the ones noted would be unique in the Mission deck.

Bonus: Condition
3VP: Colonize 3 Green planets
3VP: Colonize3 Blue planets
2VP: Colonize3 Yellow planets
5VP: Colonize3 Red planets
6VP: Mine 3 Asteroids
2VP: Colonize 1 Green, 1 Blue, and 1 Yellow planet
2VP: Colonize 1 Red planet and Mine 1 Asteroid
4VP: Colonize 1 Green, 1 Blue, 1 Yellow, and 1 Red planet, and Mine 1 Asteroid
2VP: Deliver 4 Green resource cubes at one time
2VP: Deliver 4 Blue resource cubes at one time
3VP: Deliver 4 Yellow resource cubes at one time
4VP: Deliver 3 Red resource cubes at one time
4VP: Deliver 3 Brown resource cubes at one time
3VP: Deliver 4 different resource cubes at one time
5VP: Deliver 5 different resource cubes at one time
3VP: Obtain 1 of each upgrade
3VP: Obtain full Weapons and Shield upgrades
3VP: Obtain 2 Sargo Shuttle upgrades
3VP: Defeat Hostile Aliens! Strength 3 (several cards in the deck)
5VP: Defeat Hostile Aliens! Strength 4 (several cards in the deck)

Johan
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Terra Prime V1.5

I'm not a huge fan of mission cards (I like them but I had many problems with them). They can be fun and make different games every time, but missions can also be to random and a player with mission cards that fit together can get easy points, while players that get too hard mission cards will have problems to fulfill the missions.
Instead of giving each player one or several mission cards, use the theme (they are all from the same planet and compete when they try to achieve the same goal). Place x (4-5) number of mission cards face up and then the first that manage to fulfill that mission, can clam the points (and the mission card is taken). When a mission card is taken, then place a new mission card in that place.
If you use hidden mission cards (you get missions in the start of the game) then the VP from those cards has to bee max 25-30% of the total score.

// Johan

Johan
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Terra Prime V1.5

Question:
- If I explore a sector and that sector contains aliens that I don’t fight (they remains in the sector, will the sector be explored or not).

Some small suggestions on changes:
- When you fetch goods, I think that it is good and within the theme that you could fetch from any colony, but it should be easier to get goods from your own colonies (It is your people that working in the top management in the station and you should have some bonus there).
- I would remove the player's mats (if the only thing on them is upgrade slots). Instead add an upgrade card (same cards). All players' starts with 1 upgrade card. Each card has 2 slots where you can either have goods, weapons, shields, fuels and so on. The players can then expand the sized of there ships and you have the possibility to add more future expansions.
- One thing that I don’t like with these kinds of games and that are the 19th century thinking of colonize (we meet something strange (a new strange life form) we have to kill or conquer it. If the aliens don’t want us in there territory, we just remove them and build our own colony there). It would be good to have different ways to handle aliens (battle is one), but also expanding with diplomacy, trade treatments and other things.

// Johan

akacamper
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Terra Prime V1.5

Check out the picture from my first playtest and also the new layout i have been using for my game. I have not been able to work on it in a month but maybe that layout will help you. I did play my game with the layout and it worked well for my space game. I will try to play my game again soon and take some pictures of how the board will look.

http://www.geocities.com/akacampersk2000/boardgame.html

PS the rest of my page might need some updating.

Camper

sedjtroll
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Terra Prime V1.5

Johan wrote:
If I explore a sector and that sector contains aliens that I don’t fight (they remains in the sector), will the sector be explored or not?
The sector will be explored - the aliens attacked while you were exploring, so you got the info on what planets are there. So the tile stays, and it's considered Explored. Furthermore, you know there are hostile aliens there.

Quote:
When you fetch goods, I think that it is good and within the theme that you could fetch from any colony, but it should be easier to get goods from your own colonies (It is your people that working in the top management in the station and you should have some bonus there).

At present, it's easier to get goods from your own Colonies because you don't have to pay. Other players taking stuff from your colony will have to give you VPs and/or resources. While you get the discount of not having to pay VPs.

Quote:
I would remove the player's mats (if the only thing on them is upgrade slots). Instead add an upgrade card (same cards). All players' starts with 1 upgrade card. Each card has 2 slots where you can either have goods, weapons, shields, fuels and so on. The players can then expand the sized of there ships and you have the possibility to add more future expansions.

This is interesting, the ability to keep growing your ship. A possible upgrade would be another Upgrade card... I was planning on using the player mat and available upgrade slots to encourage people to choose a strategy, because some of the slots will overlap, and they will be limited. So if you want to build several cargo holds so you can carry lots of goods, then you can't build many fuel cells and therefore won't go very fast.

Quote:
One thing that I don’t like with these kinds of games and that are the 19th century thinking of colonize (we meet something strange (a new strange life form) we have to kill or conquer it. If the aliens don’t want us in there territory, we just remove them and build our own colony there). It would be good to have different ways to handle aliens (battle is one), but also expanding with diplomacy, trade treatments and other things.
I agree with you in the respect that it's the same old thing, and also that it's not the most Xeno-friendly point of view. But in the same vein, this game (and others like it) sort of use that stereotype as the theme.

- Seth

Johan
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Terra Prime V1.5

sedjtroll wrote:
Johan wrote:
If I explore a sector and that sector contains aliens that I don’t fight (they remains in the sector), will the sector be explored or not?

The sector will be explored - the aliens attacked while you were exploring, so you got the info on what planets are there. So the tile stays, and it's considered Explored. Furthermore, you know there are hostile aliens there.

I don’t understand what happens when you loose a battle. According to the rules (I don’t know if I have seen them all, you can jus use explore (no upgrades at all), travel around and colonize the planets that you found. Can you jus pass those sectors without any effect (if you don’t have upgrades).

Quote:
Quote:
When you fetch goods, I think that it is good and within the theme that you could fetch from any colony, but it should be easier to get goods from your own colonies (It is your people that working in the top management in the station and you should have some bonus there).

At present, it's easier to get goods from your own Colonies because you don't have to pay. Other players taking stuff from your colony will have to give you VPs and/or resources. While you get the discount of not having to pay VPs.

I did not find anything of this in the rules or have I missed something. I think that is a good way to handle this.

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Quote:
One thing that I don’t like with these kinds of games and that are the 19th century thinking of colonize (we meet something strange (a new strange life form) we have to kill or conquer it. If the aliens don’t want us in there territory, we just remove them and build our own colony there). It would be good to have different ways to handle aliens (battle is one), but also expanding with diplomacy, trade treatments and other things.

I agree with you in the respect that it's the same old thing, and also that it's not the most Xeno-friendly point of view. But in the same vein, this game (and others like it) sort of use that stereotype as the theme.

I can agree that to use this type of themes is a way to simplify the game (and not add several of layers to one particular isolated part of the game). Still, you can still make a simplified system by adding 2 values to Hostile Aliens: one attacking and one diplomacy. Diplomacy is not about weapons and more about to bribe (with goods) and have negotiators (jus 1 more upgrade ;) that takes space in the ship). Use the same type of dice roll.
If you completely fail the diplomacy they will hit you with everything they have...
If you win with weapons or diplomacy, just call it that this alien has been neutralized.

Some more question:
- Can Asteroids have Hostile alien. If so what will attack first?

- I don’t understand how the trade works and how money (or resources) works? What do you need to pay for and with what (resources)? How do I pay for resources in other players colonies)? If I defeat a Hostile alien and build a colony there, will that also generate resources?

Is produce resources at your colonies mandatory? Do I have to stick with the colonies that I have build or can I destroy one of my colonies? Can I dump resources that I don’t want and are already loaded in my ship?

// Johan

akacamper
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Terra Prime V1.5

sorry sedjtroll,

I was in a hurry last night but i wanted you too see the second picture on my web page. Maybe that can give you a good idea of how many tiles you need.

A way you could decide how many layers is by how many players you have playing at one time.
3 players = 3 layers. (this works for me, just not sure if it will for you.)
4 players = 4 layers.
etc...

Sorry got to run again(at work)
Camper

sedjtroll
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Terra Prime V1.5

Johan wrote:
I don’t understand what happens when you loose a battle. According to the rules (I don’t know if I have seen them all, you can jus use explore (no upgrades at all), travel around and colonize the planets that you found. Can you jus pass those sectors without any effect (if you don’t have upgrades).
Right now the rule is that if you have no upgrades, then yes - you could go around and get attacked, lose nothing, then colonize. Every time you enter a sector on that hex you'll get attacked again, and if you have resources youmight lose them.

That would be very slow and inefficient, and I don't think it will be a winning strategy compared to upgrading.

Maybe a better idea is to say that
(a) if you don't have any resources or upgrades, then you lose 1 VP per successful Alien hit. Hmm... maybe after Shields you ONLY lose VPs instead of upgrades or resources... something to think about. And
(b) Maybe Colonization is not allowed if there are Hostile Aliens around. That would make sense, and make you have to get rid of aliens if you want a colony there.

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Quote:
At present, it's easier to get goods from your own Colonies because you don't have to pay. Other players taking stuff from your colony will have to give you VPs and/or resources. While you get the discount of not having to pay VPs.

I did not find anything of this in the rules or have I missed something. I think that is a good way to handle this.

It might not be in there, it was discussed in some posts on the thread. I've updated the initial rules post, so if you haven't read it in a while you might want to look at it again.

Quote:
you can still make a simplified system by adding 2 values to Hostile Aliens: one attacking and one diplomacy. Diplomacy is not about weapons and more about to bribe (with goods) and have negotiators (jus 1 more upgrade ;) that takes space in the ship). Use the same type of dice roll.
If you completely fail the diplomacy they will hit you with everything they have...
If you win with weapons or diplomacy, just call it that this alien has been neutralized.

I like that idea. In fact, I could keep the same value and just say you can 'make friends' with the aliens by rolling a number of 'hits' (like an attack), but instead of using weapons, you roll as many dice as resources you give up. So to 'neutralize' (or 'defeat') a 2-power alien, you could have 3 Weapons, roll 3 dice, and get at least 2 hits, or you could offer them 3 or 4 resources, roll 3 or 4 dice, and hope to get at least 2 "hits".

How does that sound for a diplomatic solution? It gives people who aren't on the 'conquest' strategy a chance to defeat aliens as well.

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Can Asteroids have Hostile alien. If so what will attack first?

A Stray asteroid does not occur in the same tile as Hostile Aliens.

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I don’t understand how the trade works and how money (or resources) works? What do you need to pay for and with what (resources)?

You pay for upgrades, and you pay with VPs and resources. Probably you either transfer VPs to the player you're buying from, or else they just earn VPs for you using ther colony, and then you must discard certain resources in order to install the upgrade.

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If I defeat a Hostile alien and build a colony there, will that also generate resources?
The marker you put out for defeating Aliens is not actually a colony, it does not produce. If you build a colony in a sector on a tile where there WERE aliens that got defeated... then yes, that colony would produce. I'm not sure which you were asking.

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Is produce resources at your colonies mandatory?
Yes. That way you can't stop other people by not producing when they are planning on picking up your colony's resources. Here's a question, if a colony has an item from before that hasn't been picked up, should a player get rid of it and produce whatever they want that turn? Or should that item stick around until someone picks it up?
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Do I have to stick with the colonies that I have build or can I destroy one of my colonies?
You cannot destroy a colony - that would be anti-thematic!
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Can I dump resources that I don’t want and are already loaded in my ship?
I hadn't thought about that. I suppose so. It costs you points or time to do that, so if it's in your best interest to do it then sure.

sedjtroll
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Terra Prime V1.5

Here's what I threw together for the upgrades/player mat:
http://www.dakotacom.net/~sej/upgrades.pdf

I like how the slots 'overlap,' that is to say if you want Weapons upgrades, then you give up slots for either Shields or Cargo Holds.

Any thoughts on this, or on which upgrades should be available where?

2 will be available in the 'green zone', 1 more available in he Yellow zone, and 1 more in the Red zone.

- Seth

Johan
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Terra Prime V1.5

sedjtroll wrote:
Johan wrote:
I don’t understand what happens when you loose a battle. According to the rules (I don’t know if I have seen them all, you can jus use explore (no upgrades at all), travel around and colonize the planets that you found. Can you jus pass those sectors without any effect (if you don’t have upgrades).
Right now the rule is that if you have no upgrades, then yes - you could go around and get attacked, lose nothing, then colonize. Every time you enter a sector on that hex you'll get attacked again, and if you have resources you might lose them.

That would be very slow and inefficient, and I don't think it will be a winning strategy compared to upgrading.

Maybe a better idea is to say that
(a) if you don't have any resources or upgrades, then you lose 1 VP per successful Alien hit. Hmm... maybe after Shields you ONLY lose VPs instead of upgrades or resources... something to think about. And
(b) Maybe Colonization is not allowed if there are Hostile Aliens around. That would make sense, and make you have to get rid of aliens if you want a colony there.

I just trying to find loopholes in the game. I have a friend that I test games with and I know that he would try this strategy (or a similar) just to see if he can beat the system.

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It might not be in there, it was discussed in some posts on the thread. I've updated the initial rules post, so if you haven't read it in a while you might want to look at it again.

I will read it and be back on that.

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you can still make a simplified system by adding 2 values to Hostile Aliens: one attacking and one diplomacy. Diplomacy is not about weapons and more about to bribe (with goods) and have negotiators (jus 1 more upgrade ;) that takes space in the ship). Use the same type of dice roll.
If you completely fail the diplomacy they will hit you with everything they have...
If you win with weapons or diplomacy, just call it that this alien has been neutralized.

I like that idea. In fact, I could keep the same value and just say you can 'make friends' with the aliens by rolling a number of 'hits' (like an attack), but instead of using weapons, you roll as many dice as resources you give up. So to 'neutralize' (or 'defeat') a 2-power alien, you could have 3 Weapons, roll 3 dice, and get at least 2 hits, or you could offer them 3 or 4 resources, roll 3 or 4 dice, and hope to get at least 2 "hits".

How does that sound for a diplomatic solution? It gives people who aren't on the 'conquest' strategy a chance to defeat aliens as well.

I like it and then you have options to always choose how you will handle aliens.

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If I defeat a Hostile alien and build a colony there, will that also generate resources?
The marker you put out for defeating Aliens is not actually a colony, it does not produce. If you build a colony in a sector on a tile where there WERE aliens that got defeated... then yes, that colony would produce. I'm not sure which you were asking.

My mistake. I believed that a defeated Alien made a colony.

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Can I dump resources that I don’t want and are already loaded in my ship?
I hadn't thought about that. I suppose so. It costs you points or time to do that, so if it's in your best interest to do it then sure.

Yes it will be costly but there can be situations when you want to get other resources instead of the one you have.

By the way, the space ships look fine. If you add different colours to the counters, you will get a better overview when testing the game.

// Johan

sedjtroll
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Terra Prime V1.5

Johan wrote:
How does that sound for a diplomatic solution? It gives people who aren't on the 'conquest' strategy a chance to defeat aliens as well.

I like it and then you have options to always choose how you will handle aliens.
I think the tiles with the aliens still have to attack normally whn youflip them, but once you know they're there you can go try and be diplomatic. Otherwise Exploring's not as dangerous as it ought to be.

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By the way, the space ships look fine. If you add different colours to the counters, you will get a better overview when testing the game.
Yes, I think the color of the upgrade will match the color of the planet it's produced on. Which brings me back to that wuestion...

Right now I have the following planet colors:

<br />
 Zone  | Planets<br />
Green  | Green, Blue<br />
Yellow | Green, Blue, Yellow, Astroids<br />
  Red  | Red, Yellow, Asteroids

Each colored planet (not asteroids) will have 1 Upgrade type available.

Ooo... new idea regarding producing and having upgrades appear - maybe if nothing is there, a Resource is produced. If there's a resource there, the player can leave it, or switch it for an Upgrade.

I'm thinking Fuel Cells (which I may change to "Thrusters") and Shields should be on Blue and Green, Cargo Holds on Yellow, and Weapons on Red. therefore if you want to go kill aliens, you have to explore and rick being attacked first. The Diplomacy rule might injur that dynamic, but since it cots points to give up resources it might be allright.

The resource gathered on Asteroids will be needed to get a Cargo Shuttle. There will be no upgrades available at Mines (which are like colonies on Asteroids)

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