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Your thoughts on PDFs and distribution

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Anonymous

So developement continues on Mi Gato Se Incendia. I suspect I'll be ready for playtesting and rules tweaking in about three weeks.

Once I've finished this and the game performs to my satisfaction I then have to think of a distribution route and/or publication. I'm looking for opinions (and experiences!) on the following:

1. Putting everything together as a PDF and simply distributing it for free. Perhaps uploading the game to this site and letting people download and print out/play at their own expense. Is this a good way to get my name out there? (particularily if the game turns out to be good :)

2. Creating a PDF version and charging a fee per download and/or offering self-published and printed versions for a bit more than downloading a PDF.

With #1 I feel I'd have a better chance at getting my name out there and getting people playing the game. Obviously I won't be compensated for this but there's always the chance of improving/expanding on the game and selling the new and improved version.

With #2 I stand to make a little money, but most likely less people will play the game and know my name unless it's a runaway hit. (and while I like the game, it's no Magic or Monopoly).

At this point I have a career and games are a hobby. I'm not banking on making a ton of money off of creating games, but to do this and make a buck would also be nice.

Thoughts and opinions?

Thanks,
Ben

btaggart
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Your thoughts on PDFs and distribution

Here's an option to consider.

Post it somewhere for free. Here is good, but there are likely other places that would get more player traffic.

Also post that it is "FREE for 2 months ONLY!" Meaning, if you want to try out a free game, do it now. Hopefully this gives wishy-washies motivation.

In two months, you then start charging for it. If it was good, all those people who tried it free will spread the word that it is indeed worth $2.50. That way you can get your name out there, and then make some money if it is a good game.

Anyway, this thought just came to me, and may be completely off, but I thought I would share it.

OutsideLime
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Your thoughts on PDFs and distribution

It would also probably be a good idea to establish a website for yourself where this game and your future creations could be downloaded and inquired upon. Then you just try to get your URL linked to by the zillions of websites/BBs/forums that would be relevant. Links are much easier for other website hosts to accept and install than to setup a direct download of your game themselves.... There are plenty of free or inexpensive ways to set up such a site for yourself where simple functions can take place. Haven't done it yet myself but am planning to soon.

TargetBoy
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Joined: 08/13/2008
PDF sales

There are a handful of places that sell PDF games. The ones I know are mainly for role playing games, but they have sections for board games. Off the top of my head I can think of:

www.rpgnow.com
www.drivethrurpg.com
www.e23.com (Steve Jackson Games)
www.wargamedownloads.com
www.dbookbooth.com

War Game Downloads is very new (say, a few weeks) and could probably use the content. RPGnow gets an insane amount of traffic, but 80% of what they sell is d20 related RPG material.

Generally these places take a cut of your cover price (RPGnow is 25%, War Game Downloads is 15% or 20%) and I don't think any of them are exclusive, so you can put your game on all of them!

Hope this helps.

phpbbadmin
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Joined: 04/23/2013
Your thoughts on PDFs and distribution

My idea: Give away a 'basic version' of the game that is complete and ready to go, and then sell expansions for actual cash. Once people have played your game and like it, they might be more likely to shell out cash for the expansions.

-Darke

jwarrend
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Joined: 08/03/2008
Re: Your thoughts on PDFs and distribution

stynx9000 wrote:

Once I've finished this and the game performs to my satisfaction I then have to think of a distribution route and/or publication.

Just keep in mind, of course, that development of a game is an open-ended process, and can take a rather long time depending on how frequently you playtest, how many changes you make each time, etc. Be patient!

Quote:

1. Putting everything together as a PDF and simply distributing it for free. Perhaps uploading the game to this site and letting people download and print out/play at their own expense. Is this a good way to get my name out there? (particularily if the game turns out to be good :)

You can put it up here, but you probably won't get many plays from just the folks on this site. Make sure that you get it in the BoardGameGeek database, that may generate more traffic. I wouldn't charge anything for it. The goal with a web-published game should be, I think, to generate enough "buzz" about your excellent game (and that's key, the game must be excellent) that a company takes notice and picks it up. (This happened recently, with a game called "Merchants of Empire" being published as "Himalaya").

If you really want to charge a few bucks for the game, I'm sure you can succeed in doing so, but I think you'll get relatively few downloads that way. In contrast, I've downloaded quite a few free games, and while I haven't ever gone to the effort of printing any out yet, there have been a few that have seemed pretty well done and that I would consider purchasing in published form. If it's "buzz" you're looking for, you have to make the game available for free. And I think that taking the long view is probably best.

One other "suggestion" for any who seek to make web-published games, it might be cool to make your card files compatible with the pre-perforarted card sheets from the Protoparts store. People who are just going to cut them from cardstock could still do so, but it might encourage a few people to buy some of the protoparts cards, which is good for all of us.

Good luck!

-Jeff

TargetBoy
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Joined: 08/13/2008
Giving stuff away.

I am way out of my depth commenting on this, but I'm going to anyway.

If you are going to give it away, you need to think about your goal in doing so. If you intend to sell the game, I think giving it away is a bad idea. When you set a price you make a statement of the game's worth. If you give it away, you are saying that it has a value of zero.

Now, there may be valid reasons to do so. I give away a bunch of games on my web site, but they are intended as examples of my work for when I do freelance writing for RPGs. So the games I give away are actually advertising.

If you mean for it to be a product, you should charge for it or shop it around to companies. Don't devalue it by giving it away.

onew0rd
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Your thoughts on PDFs and distribution

BTW - I'm pretty much agreeing with Jeff here and elaborating on what he said. I'm just a long winded guy...

As novice game designers (at least I am), our focus shouldn’t be on profits or making money. If that is our goal, we are setting ourselves up for failure (from all the stories I’ve heard). In my opinion, we should focus on developing our name in the business. This means getting polished versions of game we design into the hands of players and have them play them and enjoy them. If you create several free downloadable games and at least one becomes a big success, your name will be out there. This will make dealing with Publishers easier, it will make selling games easier, etc. As far as losing money on a potentially marketable game, I think that is pretty nearsighted. First off, you might not make any money anyhow. Secondly, I personally have an almost limitless well of ideas to work with so I never feel like 1 game would ever break me if I failed to profit from it. Thirdly, and most importantly, a downloadable version of a game does not compare in value to a boxed game with wood (or whatever) components, colorful game materials, and solid cardboard tokens (or whatever). They could easily make a downloadable version of Power Grid or Puerto Rico, and the game wouldn’t really change, but it would never compare to a wooden bit, cardboard, beautifully boxed version for $40. So I say make it downloadable. See what people think. Maybe include your email and have people report back with feedback. If it’s a runaway success, say a year or 2 later, I say you get the emails to Rio Grande, Fantasy Flight, etc and send them an email that starts…”Hello, My name is X, I am the designer of Game X. I’m sure you’ve heard of it. By my estimates, we currently have almost 10,000 downloads and I personally have received over 500 inquiries/comments/”love letters” from fans of the game. I want to make a Boxed version of it. Can we meet and discuss this? Etc…

If you are able to get even minor royalties from a game you design and it succeeds, you will then probably have more opportunities to make more money and get better and better deals.

This is, in my opinion a much safer route as you really mitigate risk. The only danger in doing this is if you have the next Trivial Pursuit, Settlers, or whatnot on your hands and you didn’t capitalize on it right away. Unfortunately, most of us will probably never really have a game of this caliber, so this isn’t such a big risk at all.

Anonymous
Your thoughts on PDFs and distribution

Hi Folks,

Thanks for the insightful replies, they've given me a lot to think about.

I think in the end, I'll be marketing this game as a free, downloadable series of PDFs. This will be my first game released to the public and while it's a fun game (chasing, putting out and capturing a flaming cat) I don't believe it's the Next Big Thing (tm). (Hmm... dibs on that name).

As many of you probably are doing, I'm always thinking about games. I've got several ideas I want to develope after this one, in several different genres and new things are always popping into my head. I'm not terribly worried about losing money over 1 release. And I don't think this game is really meant for the mass market (*cough* burning cat *cough*) but is more of a tounge in cheek sort of thing for this and other similar communities.

Having the cards match the pre-punched sheets is a good idea, and perhaps I'll do that once the playtesting is over. Heavens knows I'm no wiz with desktop publishing though, so that aspect may be a bit iffy.

Anyway, please don't consider this then end of this discussion, if you have more to add, I'm interested in hearing it.

Thanks,
Ben

larienna
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Joined: 07/28/2008
Your thoughts on PDFs and distribution

As I have browsed the website in the list above, most downloadable games prices range from 1$ to 10$ US. And some of them contains a demo version to test before buying.

I think the demo version is important. If you wish, you can make a free demo and sell your first game at a low cost like 5$. If it works and you become somewhat popular, in your next game, you still make a demo but you could now sell it 8$ or 10$ US.

The price should also varies according to the amount of work and material supplied with the download. If you are making a "chute and ladder" game, there will be much less rules and components to print than if you are making a war game with many complex rules and many unit tokens.

JackDarwid
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Your thoughts on PDFs and distribution

Hi !

I have thought the same when I made my first game (see www.geocities.com/islandofd)

I made the game as a hobby, (that's why) I put it for free (plus I don't have any name in this board game world).

I promote it a little via game mailing list I've joined, and via BGG ,and BGDF (thanks to Darke) :)

And I encouraged people to gives me feedback, if the player wins(but it's hard to win :), I will give them a You Win card file and the epilogue of the story, and put their name on the Top Ten.
Here's what happened after about 1 months :
(is this good ? is this bad ? I don't know, any experience , people ?) :

the front page is viewed about 400 times (maybe a lot of back and forth from the files in the menu, so maybe it's just 200 viewed maybe)
the game is downloaded about 100 times ( I seperate the 'real download' page with the 'want to download' page, so maybe the number 100 is rather real)

6 (I count 'em!) feedback (any feedback) : including 1 review (on BGG), 4 wins the game and go in the Top Ten.

All the feedback say nice things about the game, and give me some input/comments.

Then I prepare my second game, and the thought about selling my game (maybe via wargamedownloads.com or another) is here AGAIN.
I don't know, my heart is still in the 'hobby' thing, not to make money here (but who knows?), but I want to know what if I charge maybe $3 ? or just $1 ? How many people will buy ? I just corious :)
PS : the second game is in heavy playtesting.

And, I'd love to try your 'Cat On fire' game :) (I hope it can be played with 2 players, sometimes it's hard to gather more than 2 people to play)

Jack

Anonymous
Your thoughts on PDFs and distribution

Hey Jack,

Thanks for the input. This game is designed for two to four players currently (althought that may change with playtesting).

I'm pretty sure I'm going to take your route and distribute this thing for free at first, welcoming feedback and comments once it's out there.

If I ever make a name for myself (or my games :) in the gaming world then perhaps I'll redo it "more better" and release it on an actual board, printed by a professional. But that's a bit further down the road.

Once I've gotten the major kinks and bugs worked out I'll post a version of it here.

Cheers!
Ben

Anonymous
Beta PDFs available

Just thought I'd add this to the thread.

You can download a fully playable, beta version of Mi Gato se Incendia at

http://people.deas.harvard.edu/~bgerber/gato/MiGato.zip

Please feel free to check it out. Pleaes also note that this is a beta version. I appreciate feedback on anything and everything (yes, including spelling) but don't expect the graphics and layout to be perfect. :)

Cheers!
Ben

Anonymous
Your thoughts on PDFs and distribution

I'm looking to go the PDF/download route for one of my indie RPG designs, but have a hard time visualizing how to apply it to board game design.

That said, Greg Stolze's "ransom" publishing model for MeatBot Massacre was an interesting approach. Granted, Greg has some street cred for his stellar work with several other products, but it shows that innovative approaches can work using a PDF delivery.

http://www.danielsolis.com/meatbot/ransom.html

Azzarc
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Downloadable games

We are looking for downloadable games to sell through our web site. www.wargamedownloads.com. While we do have a slant towards wargames, we do have some strategy games listed. We are interested in board games, card games, and software.

Greg Moore

Anonymous
Your thoughts on PDFs and distribution

Greg, that's pretty darn interesting... To get a better feel for the utility of PDF products, could you share some information with us on how you came to the decision to pursue PDF downloadable content as opposed to more traditional media? Were there unexpected hurdles? Has response to your product line been favorable? Etc.

I'd love to gain more insight into the nuances of PDF-based products, as some items (especially RPGs and text-heavy products) seem to lend themselves better to this format than others. Please share some juicy tidbits! : )

Azzarc
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Your thoughts on PDFs and distribution

Ynnen, Just to be clear, it is a store to sell others published games.

How did I come to pursue the downloadable content? Well it was not my first idea, which was/is to sell original miniatures accessories. Then started thinking about the downloadable materials realized that it should be the wave of the future. People already purchase music online.

Unexpected hurdles? Mainly finding games/publications. There are many could be converted to a PDF, put people fear losing print sales (to pirates). But I have found some companies that do sell both, and they claim that it does not hurt their print sales.

More insight. Hmm, not sure what to tell you.

Greg Moore

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