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Giving newcomers a chance.

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Anonymous

[[Delete or move this if it is in wrong place or I shouldn't be typing these kinds of things or this has been covered already. Also I have deplorable grammar so let me know what to fix.]]

I am probably as far from a game as one can imagine; however, I was thinking about something important in making a game. Unless you are trying to make a game for who aren't easily discouraged or making a very complicated game, you are going to want almost any who plays to have a chance at winning. Now that's not to say you want a pseudo-game such as fluxx where you can win by accident(I do like it nonetheless) but a game that is not intimidating to people who are young or have never played your game before. I can think of two ways in which you can give people with an inherent handicap a chance at winning without playing Chutes and Ladders.

Randomness
Adding a small bit of chance into a game is a good way to keep someone who is less skillful interested in a game as they have a chance of winning. One end of the spectrum would be Chess. I don't like Chess. It's a good game, but I don't like playing because I know from the onset I'm going to lose and that ruins it for me. The other end is the previously mentioned Fluxx in which it's hard to believe that skill plays any roll in winning(with the exception of being able to pull of large combos). The key is finding a balance so that your fourteen-year-old is wins on occasion and is able to have enough fun trying the rest of the time.

The method in which you add randomness can very from the oft forgot deck of cards to the ever ubiquitous dice. Many people are against randomness which is completely arbitrary. It is much perfer that someone won because they adapted to the new resources on the board than because everyone else rolled double sixes and was hit in the head by a cave troll.

Player interaction
Any game which involves heavy trading, bluffing, or negotiation can give an advantage to newcomers. Many of you have found out in real life that being able to play the game and being able to play the people aren't always inclusive traits. A subset of this is in games were there is a bash the leader tactic where the person who seems least powerful such as someone who just learned the game can often win as she is rarely the target.

A third option is lowering the learning curve so people can just jump into a game. I'd be interested in hearing how to go about making a game thats simple and not intimidating such as blokus and still have much more depth than say tic-tac-toe.

I hope you found insight in my repetative rambling because I sure didn't.

DSfan
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Giving newcomers a chance.

Quote:
I hope you found insight in my repetative rambling because I sure didn't.

Don't be so hard on yourself Eugman! ;)

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Randomness

Personally, I like a little randomness. Now don't get me wrong I love games like Stratego where there is a determinstic combat mechanic. But, I even think this is random. Crap, I don't know if thats your Spy coming towards my General, or not.

Like you said, Randomness gives the loser, or newcomer a chance to catch up and redeem themselves.

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Player interaction

Hopefully, every game has player interaction. Without some type of interaction games will get really boring fast. IMHO

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A third option is lowering the learning curve so people can just jump into a game. I'd be interested in hearing how to go about making a game thats simple and not intimidating such as blokus and still have much more depth than say tic-tac-toe.

Ahh, my favorite: learning curve. In every game that I design I try to keep it simplistic. Games that take hours to explain, really need some work done on them. IMHO of course.

My motto is: Easy enough for a kid, enough strategy for an adult.

Nice topic Eugman,
-Justin

GamesOnTheBrain
GamesOnTheBrain's picture
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Joined: 07/24/2008
Giving newcomers a chance.

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My motto is: Easy enough for a kid, enough strategy for an adult.

Good motto. That is precisely why Settlers of Catan and Ticket to Ride are so popular.

Anonymous
Giving newcomers a chance.

Intersting arguments!
I think that this is also why the Game of the Year is always a Family game!
Family games by design must be easy to aprehend, easy to explain, have some randomness and chaotic elements, still there need to be some decisions that every player FEELS he can influence the outcome!
IMO if someone follows your suggestions he or she is on the best way to produce the next "Game of the Year"! :wink:

Sorry for repeating myself here! I think some designers are so in love with their intriguing 40-80 pages rulebook, and special cases that they forget about this simple rules.
Still I think these extensive games have their value and I am glad to have the possibility to play them from time to time. But as the rulebook gets more geeky, so get their players. IMO! :wink:

Qundar
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Giving newcomers a chance.

Hi,

IMHO, there are uses for all of them. Simple games like tic-tac-toe or pong and the like are a lot of fun. Also, simple games like solitaire (technically called Klondike, at least the standard version is) that are terribly hard to beat (chess is another) can be great fun. They can be very addicting. Tetris anyone? Yeah, I know this is about board games, but it applies here as well. On the other end, D&D is supposed to be fun (never played it) as are many other complex and drawn out games. It all depends on your audience. And a game doesn't have to be made so anyone can win, cause some games by nature are highly complex and someone who wants to play them should try a simpler game of the same genre. Also, I personally think that randomness and player interaction should be a part of any game. To one extent or another. How else can you account for luck? Sudden happenings? Etc. Not easy to do. Plus, some games are cool cause they can be varied to be easy or complex (that's what I plan on doing with the game I'm working on). Anyway, that's my ramble on the topic.

Live long and prosper, Qundar out.

zobmie
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Giving newcomers a chance.

A good game to mention here would be Go. It is NOT an easy game. There is no randomness, none of the player interaction you speak of, and Someone of great skill can cream you every time. You could have NO chance of winning whatsoever, but in the game of GO there is a built in handicap system. Whenever I am making a more skill based game, i always think back to the Go handicap system and see how I can emulate it in my own game.

for those of you who dont know. Every Go player has a rank. The handicapp gives you a certain amount of free stones on the board based on your rank compared to the rank of your opponent.

Qundar
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Giving newcomers a chance.

Hi,

Never heard of GO before. Sounds interesting.

Live long and prosper, Qundar out.

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