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Collaborative Game Design subject - EUREKA

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sedjtroll
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This should have been thought of before, and perhaps it has been... I think it would be a perfect topic for our Collaborative Game Design project. I hereby nominate Spiel des Jahres, the game of competetive game design.

Players go through the game gathering "Mechanics" and "Themes" and various other pieces of games, trying to assemble the game they think will win the Spiel des Jahres. Players assemble the pieces which somehow combine and interact with some random or pre-determined set of criteria which represents the judges, and at the end of the game the player whose assembled the best game wins!

- Seth

phpbbadmin
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Oops

Let's keep all discussion related to the project in the Collaborative Game Design Project forum from now on.

Thanks,
Darke

sedjtroll
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sorry, I didn't realize...

I didn't notice the new category- sorry!
:)

zaiga
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Collaborative Game Design subject - EUREKA

Making a game about making a game. Now that's what I would call meta-gaming... 8)

hpox
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Collaborative Game Design subject - EUREKA

Haha, wow this is an awesome "self-referencing" idea for a game. I absolutely love it. Also it have a lot of flavor which is good for a collaborative project (everyone can have his share of contribution).

As for the name, I would prefer something like what's in your thread title : "Eureka!".

Another concept idea :
Let's say the game is about Designing a perfect game for Spiel and during the game, everyone is helping design that same game, but the game we are designing in the game itself become the game we are playing! So you end up trying to have mechanics added to the game that will benefit you the most.

FastLearner
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Collaborative Game Design subject - EUREKA

Sedj, great idea, and hopox, oooooh, very cool! A bit of the Fluxx idea but without all of the horrible chaos that game entails.

Could it be done? It's fascinating, frankly. It would be tricky to have the results all be playable games, but if we can do it... wow.

Anonymous
Collaborative Game Design subject - EUREKA

Okay...assuming I caught that whole rant by hpox, what would the goal of the game be? Obviously to create the best game, by applying mechanics; but if all of the players are designing the same game, how would you work it to your advantage and how would you ultimately win?

Edit: Okay, perhaps this is what was meant, but the thought just came to me. It was said that the game you are making ultimately becomes the game you are playing. So, initially, there is no goal for the game, only immediate objectives. One of the objectives is to assign a goal for the game. In the meantime, you may be wanting to set yourself up to win the goal you are working to instill.
For example: I want to get the games goal to be "Possess the most tokens". So, while I am working to get that as the goal of the game, I may be gathering tokens to set myself up for the expected win.

Brykovian
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Collaborative Game Design subject - EUREKA

hpox's suggestion of creating the game that is being played sounds a bit too Nomic-like ... but perhaps integrating the Nomic concept into a strategy board game is an idea that is due ...

-Bryk

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Game about games

Folks,

If I understand the proposed concept, then hasn't it already been done more or less in the form of the card game fluxx (link)?

It is my suggestion (and it is only a suggestion) that we do something simple like a card game or a simple board game. Even if just for the initial project. The reason being we can hammer out the details of how the project works. Once that is done, with 'known good' procedures in hand, we could move on to a bigger, more complex project.

Anyone agree / disagree?

-Darke

Anonymous
Collaborative Game Design subject - EUREKA

I agree. I think for a collaborative project, a concept such as a game about designing a game that you eventually play could be a bit unweildy as a first project.

Perhaps after we've gotten a few, albeit, more simple games done, and we get more used to working with each other, and in a collaborative environment, then we'll start to tackle more abstract and complex designs.

Best to get the kinks out of our methods first.

Although I do like the idea of a game about creating a game that ultimately get's played, except what I like about it the most is that the goal isn't set and established at the beginning of the game.

I like most that through the course of the game, the objective is almost created through play. Perhaps we can take that concept and run with it.

If this is the idea behind FLUXX, then uh, sorry. I've never played it.

doho123
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Collaborative Game Design subject - EUREKA

Sorry, I've been away for awhile. My first child was born on July 11 (a girl), and I'm in the process of moving to a new house.

So, I checked my email and found I've been included in the CGDP. While an interesting concept, I really think it will completely fail if everyone has an equal say, primarily because everyone has different goals and objectives as to what makes a fun game.

In every collabrative project I've worked on, there ABSOLUTELY needs to be one (or at most, two) game 'daddy'(ies). This person sets the direction of the project, and decides on the use of the various suggestions of the other members. Without a daddy, the project will most likely quickly come to halt.

Of course, I could be wrong.

FastLearner
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Collaborative Game Design subject - EUREKA

Congrats on your baby! I did the same thing but 16 years and 362 days earlier and I can tell you that you're in for an absolutely incredible and wonderful ride.

I know that Darke and I both agree about the game daddy/mommy. It's just that no one has yet stepped up.

Again, congrats. Very cool.

FastLearner
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Collaborative Game Design subject - EUREKA

If the consensus is that hpox's expanded idea would be too much, Seth's original idea wouldn't be nearly as complex and seems like it could be done by the group.

Other nominations are welcome too, of course. I know Darke suggested a good dungeon-crawl type of game (I believe). Any other thoughts?

Anonymous
Collaborative Game Design subject - EUREKA

I agree that we should try something a bit smaller. I also very much enjoy more fantastic themes. I also agree that we should consider using the idea of creating the goal through game play. I think that in a fantasy, sci-fi, or other fictional setting this could be even more interesting.

As for game daddy/mommy, I personally think that natural leaders will tend to emerge. Though I also know that managing an online group can be very difficult. Also, having a single figure head leads to the issue of the entire group then taking on their characteristics, as far as strengths and weaknesses, likes and dislikes, as well as themes. This would then eliminate the idea of collaborative work. So, as for this matter I'm undecided.

Why don't we try a small project without management. We can then, for one, see how we all handle it. Also, if it is decided that we need someone to direct the group more, we'll also have more of a feel for each other and can then better decide who it should be.

Brykovian
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Collaborative Game Design subject - EUREKA

I agree with darke in that the initial idea should be kept to something quite simple. The very nature of the fact that there will be a lot of "cooks" working on this stew will cause it to grow into something more complex anyway -- it's a common characteristic of committee-based work. So, start with a very simple core ... a single intention or mechanic ... then evolve it from there -- more will get tacked-on where seems a good fit.

I also agree with Krosse in that the initial project could be run as a test of true collaboration without a specified lead designer. However, it would probably be best to elect someone as the "nag", whose responsibilities would simply be to continue driving the project forward, without having to be the one to make the creative/administrative decisions. A "facilitator" if you will. (Brings to mind a Dilbert 'toon I once saw ... ;) ).

-Bryk

jwarrend
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Collaborative Game Design subject - EUREKA

I don't know how involved I'll get in this, but I'll try to chime in from time to time. I'm not really able to attend the chats, so that will probably be a hindrance for truly involved participation.

It seems like a couple of times in the Journals that someone will write their idea for a game, and someone else will chime in saying "hey, I had the same idea!"

Perhaps rather than trying to invent a concept for a game (I like the suggestions so far, BTW), we just need someone to be magnanimous and hand over one of the designs that they've started, but haven't got very far on. Folks could propose their different ideas, and the group could decide which seems like the most promising for this project. Personally, I would lean towards exploring a theme/system that hasn't been done before. The game about designing a game seemed to fit this description (although it doesn't light my fire, personally, but it could be a cute idea)

I have one game idea that I think could work very well to this end, (in the sense that it's a unique theme, but one that I'll never finish), but I'll wait to hear whether people want to use this kind of a "suggestion" process, or whether we want to start completely from scratch. Either way is fine by me!

-Jeff

Anonymous
Collaborative Game Design subject - EUREKA

I've got several ideas that have barely seen the light of day. However, before I start blurting things out, I'd kinda like to hear what type of game everyone is looking at doing. I've got card game ideas, boardgames, ideas and tile game ideas. You name it and I've got an idea for it, so fire away, I'll let you know some of my thoughts.

Anonymous
Collaborative Game Design subject - EUREKA

This 'game of game design' is not too far from the game "Democrazy" by Bruno Faidutti - which I would have to say is not one of my favorite games.

Scurra
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Collaborative Game Design subject - EUREKA

I don't think it's so much "Democrazy" as "Nomic" (as I say elsewhere).
Democrazy simply has some meta-rules that are implemented according to votes. Nomic allows even the basic rules to be changed depending upon circumstance.

I would envisage the "game of game design" as lying somewhere between the two. I would also imagine it working better with a smaller number; where Democrazy and Nomic both really want 6 or more to make them work effectively, I would expect this to work for 3 - 6 instead. But who knows? :)

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