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Game #53: Abet by Dean Howard (Offcenter)

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Anonymous

I know it's unusual to have a word game in this forum. Thanks to jwarrend for allowing me to submit it.

Abet has been play-tested by people I know, but they're not unbiased. I need comments from people who are seeing it for the first time - which of course is everybody here.

I know there are several games in the same family already on the market. I think the semi-cooperative scoring mechanism and other features will make it stand out as different (and better, I hope.)

Here are the rules, images of cards used in the game, and quick-reference cards:
http://www.mindspring.com/~deanhoward/AbetRules.html
http://www.mindspring.com/~deanhoward/AbetCards.doc
http://www.mindspring.com/~deanhoward/AbetRef.doc

There is also a completely cooperative variation that's not quite ready to post. I'll add that in the next day or two.

This is my first game I've developed this far, and of course my first in this forum. I hope I've followed the protocols.

Thanks in advance for your comments,
Dean

Anonymous
Game #53: Abet by Dean Howard (Offcenter)

It looks like an interesting game. I am not a big scrabble player, but loved rummy growing up. It has a very rummy feeling to it.

It looks like the rules could still use a little bit of work. My first two questions when I approach a game is "Can it be played with the number of players we have?" My second question is "Can it be played in the time we have left in the evening?" Neither question is answered in the rules.

Reading the rules I started thinking about the game as a rummy game. Then when I got to the scoring, I wondered how you would remember where the cards were played. I then realized that if you score it as you play (like scrabble) you don't have to remember who played what. You should introduce scoring into the main area of the rules, as part of the turn. This would also solve the issue I had during the first reading, why would I want to extend a word?

Is there a reason you choose to not put the score for playing a particular letter on the reference sheet? This would be good reference material.

You might consider increasing the value of each letter by 5 and then have it cost 15 points to form a new word. This will leave the scoring the same, but may be easier to explain. The disadvantage is that players would be required to a small amount of subtraction when calculating points for new words.

Jonathan

Brykovian
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Game #53: Abet by Dean Howard (Offcenter)

Howdy offcenter ... nice game! :)

First, I have a minor typo ... in your Quick Start section, at the end of point #3, you have "for each card over four." I think that should be "for each card over three" based upon how the complete rules read.

Can phases #2 (extend a word) and #3 (make a word) be taken in opposite order? Can I first make a new word, and then extend an existing word? (I'm guessing not, but thought you might want to spell it out.)

I agree with jhager's comment that you should mention immediate scoring as a step each player takes during his/her turn.

I really like the strategy aspect of forming words that others could easily extend, scoring points for both you and them. Also, the scoring seems to encourage extending over making new words, although making a good new word would be like "planting" for a later "harvest" of points. ;)

I haven't yet looked at the cards yet, but based upon the rules, this looks like it might make a fun party game for folks who are partial to word games.

-Bryk

Johan
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Game #53: Abet by Dean Howard (Offcenter)

Hello Dean

Liked the game. This game reminds me of all word and puzzle games I played with my daughters several years ago. As you wrote, there are a lot of Scrabble like games like this out there, but I have not seen any with this mechanism.

I can?t find anything in the rules that indicates any error (or even question marks). But i will keep looking.

One suggestion: With those components make several games. Reuse the same deck of cards all over again ...and again ...and again...
- Make one variant for 4-6 year olds that are eager to learn the alphabet.
- Make a school variant (with the right you have a huge market).
- Make a party variant.
- Make an advanced variant of this family game.
- Try to do a Whist variant.
There are a lot of games that could be made. Put them all in the same rulebook.
With more types of games, you have a bigger market.

// Johan

Scurra
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Game #53: Abet by Dean Howard (Offcenter)

Hey, what a terrific little game. I recently came across an old (1937!) cards & letters game called "Lexicon" which I had been trying to retune slightly, but I think you've made a much better job of it :-) (For reference, the basic version of Lexicon is built around a crossword grid structure, but I'm sure one of the variants has an individual words version.) I particularly like the colour-matching concept, which allows for interesting variants.
Having said that, there is something to be said for the way Lexicon values its letters in an inverse fashion to Scrabble; common letters have higher values than uncommon ones, but this is because there is a penalty for cards left in hand at the end. This adds a nice tactical touch and encourages "helpful" play (since common letters are more likely to be built upon.)

I too would add the observation about scoring needing to be included at both the "Create a Word" and "Extend a Word" steps rather than as a separate section at the end. The bonus for going out first can likewise be added into the last paragraph of the rules.
Otherwise I think I would ask for the component list to be included at the beginning (before the "quick start"). I realise that it's tricky to specify things like game length and number of players with a game like this, but some guidelines would help too.

Oh, and one last thing. Having looked at the cards, I like the illustrations but they must surely be very distracting when trying to build words - especially ones in front of other players? I know it adds a bit of colour to the game, but a word game is all about the letters on the cards!

As a word game fan, I think I'd be buying this one (indeed, I shall probably mock up a set to try at Christmas...;-) Good work.

onew0rd
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Game #53: Abet by Dean Howard (Offcenter)

Very nice! I like this. It has something that I feel is very hard to capture: elegance. I would probably do what Johan said about the variants. Particularly for children. This is a game that schools would allow (encourage?) kids to play and the school system might be a big potential client. Good Luck!

Eugene

Anonymous
Game #53: Abet by Dean Howard (Offcenter)

jhager wrote:

It looks like the rules could still use a little bit of work. My first two questions when I approach a game is "Can it be played with the number of players we have?" My second question is "Can it be played in the time we have left in the evening?" Neither question is answered in the rules.

I'll add something like "For 2-6 players. With 4 players, one round takes 10-15 minutes, a full game takes 45-60 minutes", and adjust if necessary after more play-testing.

jhager wrote:
Reading the rules I started thinking about the game as a rummy game. Then when I got to the scoring, I wondered how you would remember where the cards were played. I then realized that if you score it as you play (like scrabble) you don't have to remember who played what.

Words remain in front of the player who made them, so he will share credit for extensions. I'll try to make that clearer.

jhager and others wrote:
You should introduce scoring into the main area of the rules, as part of the turn.

Good idea. I'll see how it looks, and probably do it

jhager wrote:

Is there a reason you choose to not put the score for playing a particular letter on the reference sheet? This would be good reference material.

I'll try that, but I'm trying to keep the reference cards simple. For what it's worth, the Scrabble board has tile frequencies but not letter values, as I recall.

Brykovian wrote:
I have a minor typo ... in your Quick Start section, at the end of point #3, you have "for each card over four." I think that should be "for each card over three"

Good catch. The minimum was 4 letters until I saw rounds ending with people repeatedly drawing and discarding, trying to make the last word.

Brykovian wrote:

Can phases #2 (extend a word) and #3 (make a word) be taken in opposite order? Can I first make a new word, and then extend an existing word? (I'm guessing not, but thought you might want to spell it out.)

You'd hardly ever want to. If you can extend a word, doing that first may give you a card to make a better word. The extra card(s) from making a long word could make an extension possible, but I'm inclined to disallow this to keep the order simple.

Thanks to all for the encouraging words, and thanks even more for the suggestions!

-- Dean

Anonymous
Game #53: Abet by Dean Howard (Offcenter)

Johan wrote:
One suggestion: With those components make several games. Reuse the same deck of cards all over again ...and again ...and again...
- Make one variant for 4-6 year olds that are eager to learn the alphabet.
- Make a school variant (with the right you have a huge market).
- Make a party variant.
- Make an advanced variant of this family game.
- Try to do a Whist variant.
There are a lot of games that could be made. Put them all in the same rulebook.
With more types of games, you have a bigger market.

// Johan
Good thinking. I'll post a co-operative variation later, and I'm trying to think of a good solitaire game. Also an anagram version (CIGAR + L = GARLIC) which would probably need a time limit for each turn because of all the possible arrangements.

I know the friendly scoring system (including no penalty for unused cards) should be attractive to the family market. I just wish I knew more about marketing.

Johan wrote:

I like the illustrations but they must surely be very distracting when trying to build words - especially ones in front of other players? I know it adds a bit of colour to the game, but a word game is all about the letters on the cards!

I _may_ drop the illustrations, but I think it's more interesting to have something on the card other than a big G.
Illustrations also create possible markets - a children's edition with simple pictures of animals, maybe even a dog-owner's edition with pictures of different breeds ??

Thanks again!
-- Dean

Scurra
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Game #53: Abet by Dean Howard (Offcenter)

offcenter wrote:
Scurra wrote:
(yes, it was me, not Johan!)
I like the illustrations but they must surely be very distracting when trying to build words - especially ones in front of other players? I know it adds a bit of colour to the game, but a word game is all about the letters on the cards!

I _may_ drop the illustrations, but I think it's more interesting to have something on the card other than a big G.
Illustrations also create possible markets - a children's edition with simple pictures of animals, maybe even a dog-owner's edition with pictures of different breeds ??

That's all very well, but unless the game is about spelling those particular words then they are going to be distracting to the point of annoyance.
With musical instruments, if you've got "cell" in front of you, it's going to be very hard to think of anything other than "cello" to extend it :-)

(Don't get me wrong - I like the pictures. I just think that they are wrong for a spelling game, that's all. I know it makes it tricky to give the game a USP, but I think the colour letter matching is enough.)

Anonymous
Game #53: Abet by Dean Howard (Offcenter)

Scurra wrote:

That's all very well, but unless the game is about spelling those particular words then they are going to be distracting to the point of annoyance.
With musical instruments, if you've got "cell" in front of you, it's going to be very hard to think of anything other than "cello" to extend it :-)

Another option may be to drop the words and leave the pictures. The player would see a cello but not "cello".

You could also use pictures for letters. For example, use a picture of Oscar (from Sesame Street) in the shape of a "C". Of course, this would require a license from Sesame Street, which may or may not be obtainable. Another option using the same idea is human-letters, like the ones created at school during assemblies from hundreds of people.

Unless you are planning on self-publishing I would not focus too intently on the exact graphical representation on the cards. Most likely the publisher/manufacturer will have their own ideas to reach the market. So whatever you do, it will likely change.

Jonathan

Anonymous
Game #53: Abet by Dean Howard (Offcenter)

Looking at your cards again, I have another quick tip. Add some symbol to the cards to represent the color. This will allow color-blind people to play.

Anonymous
Game #53: Abet by Dean Howard (Offcenter)

Here's the cooperative variation I mentioned earlier, along with another link to the basic rules:

http://www.mindspring.com/~deanhoward/AbetCoop.html
http://www.mindspring.com/~deanhoward/AbetRules.html

This varitaion is completely untested. Do you think it would work?

Thanks,
Dean

Scurra
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Game #53: Abet by Dean Howard (Offcenter)

I jsut wanted to add that I also found it highly amusing that your game - a wonderfully simple and elegant word game - should follow my game - an overambitious high concept mess. (On the down side, both of them suffer from the same feedback problem: yours is just about perfect as it is, and mine has too much wrong to make comments useful. That doesn't make the comments that people have made redundant, but possibly less helpful.)

Personally, I think solitaire rules are more important than co-operative rules, but your first attempt looks promising. (I must confess that I'd never play a co-operative version of a spelling game though: where's the fun in that? :-)

The scoring still bothers me a little. There seems to be no incentive to extend a word, since you are just helping another player, compared to hoarding cards to make a huge one yourself. Is there a reason why both players get the 5 point/card "extension" bonus? (Rather than just the extending player.)
It'd be really cool if you could track multiple "owners" too: if I play "CAR" and you add "ES" (to make CARES), then we should both get something if a third player adds "S" (to make CARESS.) But then you get into counters and stuff and it all gets a bit excessive.

zaiga
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Game #53: Abet by Dean Howard (Offcenter)

Dean, thanks for sharing this game with us. The design looks like really nice and elegant. It's basically a "one-idea" game, which means that either it works, or it doesn't and that makes it hard to comment on. If it works (and apparently you playtesting shows that it does) than you have something that could possibly get published one day.

That said, there are a few things I'd like to comment on.

I see that the scores of letters on individual cards range from 3 to 17, correct? Perhaps it is a good idea to divide all the scores of the letters by three. Or perhaps some of the easier letters can even score zero points, as you give a bouns to lonher words as well. Smaller numbers are easier to compute, which is especially important when children are part of your target audience. The scoring will be less finer grained this way and I can imagine that there will be some letters that you really want to let score one and a half point, but I think you might want to sacrifice a bit of balance for simplicity in this game. Of course, you would also need to tweak the other scoring mechanisms again.

I think you can do away with the pictures on the cards. The focus should be on the letters. Let a publisher decide the final design of the cards and whether they want pictures on it or not. If you are going to self-publish this game then I think the pictures are a nice touch, but I would make them less prominent and I would remove the word on the card, which would just be confusing. Instead use pictures which everyone immediately recognizes and knows the first letter of. You could even do something with the colors, for example the yellow B is a banana, the red S a strawberry, the yellow S the sun, etc. I wouldn't bother with this if you are just making a prototype to show to publishers, though, as it is probably a lot of work.

Also, add a little symbol in the corner the cards to differentiate the colors. Being colorblind I have a hard time distinguishing between the green and the red on your cards. I would also make the colored borders much bigger and print the letters and their scores in both corners (left and right)of the card. Some people like to fan their cards just the other way round, you know.

About the cooperative scoring: I like it in principle and I understand why it is there. However, keep in mind that it useless in a 2 player game, because it is zero sum. Therefore I think it would be nice if the player adding the letters and the player who made the original word both score something different for the word. Perhaps the original player of the word gets points for the whole word, while the extending player just scores points for the extra letters, or the other way round? At least something that makes it less zero-sum. That way it would actually mean something in a 2-player game and I also think it makes for more interesting decisions in multiplayer games.

"Exception: you can't just add an S at the end of a word if it only creates a plural or verb form". What if you change this to: "you always need to add at least two letters to an existing word"? That would make extending a word a little harder (which may or not be desirable) and you could drop this particular rule. Not a big deal, but I prefer "clean" rules to rules that are obviously just needed to prevent a "broken" strategy or some other quirk.

Acceptable words. I would leave the phrase "All words must be single, unhyphenated English words found in whatever dictionary the players agree to use.", but I would cut out the bit about challenging words and taking back unacceptable words. Just state what the players may and may not do, don't tell them what to do when someone breaks the rules, leave that to the players themselves. The problem with rules like these is that you are implicitly allowing players to make unacceptable words, as long as no one notices or has the guts to challenge them.

A minor thing that will probably rarely ever happen in real play, but which you may want to cover anyway, just in case... What happens if the deck runs out? I think you can solve this issue neatly by stating that a round also ends when someone draws the last card of the deck, because that way the game will always end even when players for some reason cannot form any words anymore.

Anyway, good luck!

- René Wiersma

Anonymous
Game #53: Abet by Dean Howard (Offcenter)

Scurra wrote:
The scoring still bothers me a little. There seems to be no incentive to extend a word, since you are just helping another player, compared to hoarding cards to make a huge one yourself. Is there a reason why both players get the 5 point/card "extension" bonus? (Rather than just the extending player.)

Extending a word in effect allows you to draw 2 or more cards per turn, which can be very useful. It's also a way to get rid of a card you can't use, like your only card of a color. Giving the bonus to both players keeps the rules simpler, but your idea is worth considering.

Scurra wrote:

It'd be really cool if you could track multiple "owners" too: if I play "CAR" and you add "ES" (to make CARES), then we should both get something if a third player adds "S" (to make CARESS.) But then you get into counters and stuff and it all gets a bit excessive.

I'm planning to add a page of variations. If this idea tests well, I'll include it, with my thanks to you.

-- Dean

Anonymous
Game #53: Abet by Dean Howard (Offcenter)

zaiga wrote:
I see that the scores of letters on individual cards range from 3 to 17, correct? Perhaps it is a good idea to divide all the scores of the letters by three. Or perhaps some of the easier letters can even score zero points, as you give a bouns to lonher words as well. Smaller numbers are easier to compute, which is especially important when children are part of your target audience. The scoring will be less finer grained this way and I can imagine that there will be some letters that you really want to let score one and a half point, but I think you might want to sacrifice a bit of balance for simplicity in this game. Of course, you would also need to tweak the other scoring mechanisms again.

That's something I'm still debating with myself. Values ranging from 1 to about 10 have the advantages you mention. The present 2-based values allow finer tuning, and I like how it fits with 5-point bonuses. (This is an ongoing adjustment. My original 10-point and higher bonuses were too high compared to the letter value. Also, the Qu was once worth 50 because of its rarity, until I realized its wild color tripled the ways to play it.)

zaiga wrote:
I think you can do away with the pictures on the cards. The focus should be on the letters. Let a publisher decide the final design of the cards and whether they want pictures on it or not. If you are going to self-publish this game then I think the pictures are a nice touch, but I would make them less prominent and I would remove the word on the card, which would just be confusing...

I like having more than just letters on the cards. Most of the comments here disagree, so I may reconsider.
I'm thinking of self-publishing on a small scale. There could be enough interest among local retailers to produce 50-100 copies. That would let me clean up mistakes, send some for review, and in general see if it's anywhere near "ready for prime time". I'd probably lose a little money on that scale, but it's a lot cheaper that risking the cost of making 2,000.

zaiga wrote:
Also, add a little symbol in the corner the cards to differentiate the colors. Being colorblind I have a hard time distinguishing between the green and the red on your cards. I would also make the colored borders much bigger and print the letters and their scores in both corners (left and right)of the card. Some people like to fan their cards just the other way round, you know.

I'll do something for the color-blind. I'll at least make the borders different. If I keep the pictures, I may use pictures of different things for different colors. I'll experiment with your other suggestions, too.

zaiga wrote:
About the cooperative scoring: I like it in principle and I understand why it is there. However, keep in mind that it useless in a 2 player game, because it is zero sum. Therefore I think it would be nice if the player adding the letters and the player who made the original word both score something different for the word...

Yes, the 2-player competitive game needs something different. Maybe just give the letter value to the extending player.

zaiga wrote:
"Exception: you can't just add an S at the end of a word if it only creates a plural or verb form". What if you change this to: "you always need to add at least two letters to an existing word"? That would make extending a word a little harder (which may or not be desirable) and you could drop this particular rule. Not a big deal, but I prefer "clean" rules to rules that are obviously just needed to prevent a "broken" strategy or some other quirk.

Words would change too rarely if two letters had to be added. Most words games address prefixes and suffixes in some form. I'll probably keep the "no added S" rule, but I may drop it, or even add a rule against -ED, -ING, RE-, and other boring changes.

zaiga wrote:
I would cut out the bit about challenging words and taking back unacceptable words. Just state what the players may and may not do, don't tell them what to do when someone breaks the rules, leave that to the players themselves. The problem with rules like these is that you are implicitly allowing players to make unacceptable words, as long as no one notices or has the guts to challenge them.

Another thing I'm not sure about. Challenge rules are common in word games, but hey do create an element of bluffing. Automatically losing a turn is harsh for a reasonable guess. Maybe lose a turn for two unacceptable words in a row? (Or three per game, with "strike 1" markers?)

zaiga wrote:
What happens if the deck runs out?

The rules say a round ends after the last card is drawn. Maybe it needs to be in a separate sentence.

zaiga wrote:
Anyway, good luck!

- René Wiersma
Thanks, and thanks for some excellent questions!
-- Dean

Anonymous
Game #53: Abet by Dean Howard (Offcenter)

offcenter wrote:

zaiga wrote:
I would cut out the bit about challenging words and taking back unacceptable words. Just state what the players may and may not do, don't tell them what to do when someone breaks the rules, leave that to the players themselves. The problem with rules like these is that you are implicitly allowing players to make unacceptable words, as long as no one notices or has the guts to challenge them.

Another thing I'm not sure about. Challenge rules are common in word games, but hey do create an element of bluffing. Automatically losing a turn is harsh for a reasonable guess. Maybe lose a turn for two unacceptable words in a row? (Or three per game, with "strike 1" markers?)

The three strikes rule would be a good way to solve challenges. You could have a player loose 50 or 100 points if they accumulate 3 strikes during a game.

The only disadvantage is that you would have to manufacturer tokens in addition to cards. Currently, your game would fit nicely in a double tuck card box. Your manufacturing cost would actually be fairly low if you don't include the counters.

Jonathan

Anonymous
Game #53: Abet by Dean Howard (Offcenter)

Thanks for all the comment and suggestions. I'm not at all surprised that you brought up some things I hadn't even thought about. This week has been very helpful!

-- Dean

Anonymous
Game #53: Abet by Dean Howard (Offcenter)

I created a set of cards and play tested this game over the weekend. My revelations are ...

Building onto a word is a lot harder than it sounds. Maybe part of the problem is we created words that are not easily extended.

The game is based more on luck than skill:

    During the first round I was dealt only 1 vowel. (I had a F-O-M in one color + a black Z). There was a lot of drawing and immediately discarding as the players rearranged their hands. Getting into the game took several turns. That wasn't fun.

The hand diminishes. This makes it even more critical what you were dealt.
I am going to try playing again with modified rules. I was going to allow redrawing up to 12 after extending or creating a word with the game ending after the deck is exhausted. I was also going to try allowing a vowel to be played as any color, but the player only gets points if played as the correct color. I'll let you know if it is more fun to play.

[/]
Anonymous
Game #53: Abet by Dean Howard (Offcenter)

Have you ever seen the game Quiddler? See http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/339 on BoardGameGeek for reference. This is a word game that is played with cards. In the first hand, you are dealt 3 cards, and you are trying to make a word with all three cards. Simple rules - draw one, play your word or words, discard one. If you play your word, you have to use all your cards. Each word must be made up of at least two cards. In each subsequent hand, you are dealt one more card and play hands until you have a 10-card hand. It's easy to learn, easy to play. The letter mix is a bit different from what you have, and you can still get a very bad hand.

Second comment: I've seen references to the most common English letters being ETNORIAS (possibly in that order, though they may just be in that order to make a somewhat-pronounceable word). These letters should be more frequent. Look at Quiddler, Scrabble for their letter distributions.

Third comment: Would you consider using some of these letters as "common pool" letters? For example, set up a pool of letters in the middle of the table. These are face-up letters. Allow players to draw from this pool or from the draw pile. If you did this, I would still include the normal letters in the standard draw pile. Make it so that the cards drawn from this common pool are not worth any points.

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