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Deterministic Combat System

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questccg
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I am trying to design a "combat" system that uses no luck: there is no dice rolling or any other form of "randomness".

The idea is that all "combat" is determined by stats.

So I have six (6) stats:

  • Strength [Str]
  • Wisdom [Wis]
  • Dexterity [Dex]
  • Charisma [Cha]
  • Intelligence [Int]
  • Constitution [Con]

Each "Hero" has three (3) of these stats: one - Primary, two - Secondary, and three - Auxiliary. Which three (3) depends on the class of the character.

From simple rules, it can be determined that "Minions" (Lesser Creatures) can have from ONE (1) to THREE (3) stats. "Monsters" (Greater Creatures) can have from THREE (3) to FIVE (5) stats...

To BEAT a Minion or Monster, you need to MATCH the stats of the creature.

So IF I have a "Black Dragon" with FOUR (4) stats: Str, Con, Int, and Wis. The party (in play) must have "X" Heroes with equal or greater sum of these stats.

If a player has the right combination of Heroes, he may defeat the "Black Dragon". And of course you can use Items & Equipment to help boost some of your stats (to defeat the Black Dragon).

At the same time, your opponent can boost his "Black Dragon's" might by using Minions & Traps to increase the power of his Monster...

Obviously at the beginning of the game - you only have ONE (1) Hero. And no Items or Equipment at your disposal. So beating Monsters early in the game is a challenge. My problem is "at the END", you will have several Heroes and a bunch of Items and Equipment at your disposal.

Even thought this "combat" system is deterministic and relies on no luck, is it too simple?

Feel free to comment! I am just thinking about the "combat" system and seeing if there are "other" possibilities of only using stats without the need for randomness...

questccg
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Obviously trying to "make sense"...

So it makes 100% sense that by giving Items & Equipment to your Heroes, adds to the power/stats of your party.

But it also makes sense that Monsters can be boosted by Minions & Traps as these occur in the lair where you encounter these maleficent beings. So alone a Monster can be relative easy to defeat - but by adding a couple Minions and a Trap to his lair - and suddenly you have a "tough" monster to defeat... because his lair is "boosted" by all kinds of "Fragments".

X3M
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questccg wrote: Even thought

questccg wrote:

Even thought this "combat" system is deterministic and relies on no luck, is it too simple?


Compare it with chess.
Chess is one of the most deterministic games out there. The only thing that you don't know in the game is what your opponent is thinking.

But in the end, it is one big giant puzzle.
And the thoughts of your opponent aren't actually important.
The most skilled players can think ahead several turns regardless of their opponent. A perfect play, contains no risks either.

So you have to ask yourself these 2 questions:
- Does your game have enough complexity that solving this puzzle is based on the players skill?
- And can players take risks?

DarkDream
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Some Thoughts

The stats you showed are straight from Dungeons and Dragons. Is there a copyright problem using these exact same stats?

I like the general idea of what you are saying, but seems to me a little weird that you have to have high constitution to defeat a dragon. Strength and Dexterity make sense, but not Intelligence and Wisdom, for example.

The particular stats have particular uses in particular situations. As such, an alternative is that you can "battle" against situations. For example, you can turn over a card and it shows "Toxic Gas." You then need to defeat it via using Constitution.

Similarly, you "battle" against a card which is a puzzle that has a certain Intelligence requirement. If you make it, you get X or fail get Y.

For battles vs monsters, I would just use Strength and Dexterity or possibly intelligence vs a wizard or something.

I do not think the mechanic is too simple. I would just expand the notion of what constitutes a "battle."

From there you can even have a different set of cards which constitute the layout of a dungeon and each card represents a room and indicates how many event cards you need to draw to "battle" with. A different set of item cards then have what things you get when you win a battle and so on.

Some ideas. :)

--DarkDream

ElKobold
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I think you should focus less

I think you should focus less on stats and other minor details, and more on what sort of interesting choices players will have to make to succeed.

questccg
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An example to clarify

DarkDream wrote:
...I like the general idea of what you are saying, but seems to me a little weird that you have to have high constitution to defeat a dragon. Strength and Dexterity make sense, but not Intelligence and Wisdom, for example.

Well the general idea is that IF you are battling a "Black Dragon", then he will have these stats for example:

"Black Dragon" = 6 STR, 5 DEX, 5 CON, 4 INT, 3 WIS

You goal is to create a PARTY with one or more Heroes to defeat this evil Monster...

"Fighter #1" = 5 STR, 2 DEX, 4 CON, x, x
"Fighter #2" = 4 STR, 3 DEX, 4 CON, x, x
"Wizard #1" = x, x, 1 CON, 6 INT, 5 WIS

"Party" Total = 9 STR, 5 DEX, 9 CON, 6 INT, 5 WIS

As I mentioned the "Black Dragon" is one of the most "toughest" Monsters around... And you can see it takes THREE (3) Heroes to defeat it...

That's sort of the mechanic... Basically it means that the Fighters will be using melee attack to wound the Dragon, meanwhile the Wizard will be using Magic...

Again just an example...

questccg
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And of course you can BOOST a Monster...

With say for example a "Trap" card which boost DEX = +2. So we would then have:

"Black Dragon" = 6 STR, 7 DEX, 5 CON, 4 INT, 3 WIS

Your THREE (3) Heroes would not be sufficient enough to beat this ENHANCED "Monster"... You might need to add a "Thief" or a "Bard" to the team/party (for example). Another "Fighter" might also do it...

All this because your opponent added one (1) additional "Fragment" to your timeline for his "Black Dragon"...

questccg
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Boots of Agility!

However all is not lost, you TOO can add a "Fragment" to your timeline in your own favor:

"Boots of Agility" = +3 Dex

Haha! Take that "Black Dragon"!!! And of course being a deterministic form of combat, the Heroes would claim victory over the maleficent Monster and "save the day"...

Now just wanted to ADD that you CANNOT add as many "Fragments" as you like. There are rules that go something like this:

  1. The stronger the Monster, the lower the amount of Fragments you/your opponent can add.
  2. So a WEAK Monster may allow a player to add up to THREE (3) Fragments.
  3. Whereas a STRONG Monster may only allow up to ONE (1) additional Fragment.

Generally speaking the stronger the Monster, the more income he will generate for YOUR OPPONENT (once conquered). So your Heroes will take over that giant hoard of gold left by the vanquished "Black Dragon"!

questccg
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Just bumping this thread...

BUMP!

I'd like some more "eyes" on the concept. And maybe some other ideas, comments or feedback?!

X3M
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With only the combat

With only the combat explained, there isn't much to go around. So, maybe the game might look good. We don't have sufficient information to judge/suggest/support.

***

You have to be careful with deterministic combat, or other deterministic aspects of games. The whole game might become a certain set of events. Forced to play a certain path will be noticed after a couple of times.

If randomness by tools is something you don't want to have. You can still introduce it by players choices and a "fog of war".

If both players have all the tools ready to use. Then this should mean that once used, the tool is gone.

So, when one decision looks good at a certain point. It might bite back later on.

One deterministic way can be:
Allow players to create their own deck on before hand. Like having to choose out of, for example, 40 cards. And they can only pick for example 20.

During the game, these 20 are consumed. And the end game, it might be a gamble for the players. Solely based on their choices. But if they decide on a good strategy. The game might cut close to the edge.

questccg
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Yeah that's sort of what I had in mind...

@Ramon: it's like you READ MY MIND!

So the goal would be players build their deck of 60 cards. During the game, players have two (2) goals:

  1. Reach a specific Income Goal (total gold).
  2. Avoid losing by Terror (total Dark Virtue).

It's something like this... but not 100% definite. So maybe a player only draws 30 cards from his 60 card deck to WIN (or lose).

Specifically I'm looking at what kind of COMBAT I can have. I want to stay away from Magic Simulators or Copies (Attack/Defense) thought that STATS might be the better way... Sure RPGs use them A LOT. So do WARGAMES...

Anyhow I just wanted to see if people like this Combat System or can propose something different... Obviously staying within the realm of determinism (as much a possible).

My goal is to ONLY have a "Card Game" - no dice. Dice pose a logistical problem - you need a BOX for them. I wanted to use a Poker Tuck Box - 60 cards... Something like Epic does (no dice)... But instead of 120 cards, half the size...

Anyhow if anyone else has any IDEAS - love to hear them!

Thank you.

X3M
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Sorry for TLDR

I don't have time right now to cut the story to a smaller read. So a lot to dig through. I hope you can take some critic.

***

There is a clear difference between choosing and simply drawing cards. Wording in the rules is very important.

***

I tried to copy MtG once. But that combat mechanic only fits MtG. I like to apply RPS, but with MtG, it was so mechanical. And it was also deterministic, which caused the game to be in favour of the best deck for 100%. And since only dice could fix that, I continued back then with my board game instead.

It is indeed better to think up a combat mechanic that fits your feeling about it and your other game mechanics. How well does your 6 stats/combat mechanic fit the other game mechanics?

What I don't like about these 6 stats is. That they seem to fit the same function. All 6 are treated the same, right? The biggest number wins. And you need X of them to be bigger.
Or do they hold a second property?

An example is that I use Unit Speed for 2 mechanics:
- Moving on the board
- A possible hit chance modifier for the enemy or the player

I did the same for Weapon Range (4 mechanics; distance, sub turn order, possible hit chance modifier, allowed to fight?) and for Unit Sizes (3 mechanics; I fits here?, I hide behind or protect a friendly?, I can go through there?).
Altering the number, alters the usage of the unit. And thus the strategy in the game.

But then again, moving pieces on a board is more of a dynamic game. With cards, I understand that it will be much harder to get a game out of it. So, I got one suggestion:
That you find a second property for each statistic. That will be mechanically used in the game. 1 statistic may stick with one mechanic, the combat. But every other statistic that can't get a second property, should be discarded.

***

A second part that I don't like about the system. And actually, most games have this problem. Even I had this for years.
Is that when you provide a bonus to a statistic. It gets better. Why? Why does it have to get better?
Everyone is going to apply the bonuses! It is like having Starcraft, where players upgrade to the maximum, before even attacking the enemy.
I don't like that. And if you see the chance, make it so with the double properties, that each statistic has a positive side and a negative side.

Most games use "costs" of an unit to balance things out. But I disagree that that is the only way. If you give 2 sides to a number. Than there will be more choices in the game. And bigger isn't better. Once the players notice this, they will like the game much more (at least, I think that they will like the game much more)

***

Maybe you can do something along the lines of, a perfect fit allows the player to gain 1 bonus statistic. So if they apply an overkill. 3 Dex on a 2 Dex opponent. They miss out on a reward. No +1 Dex.

Another option is to have the players to gain the upper hand in statistics. For this, each unit has 1, 3 or 5 statistics. And the opponent has to beat 1, 2 or 3 of these. The remaining statistics that aren't beaten, could beat the other side.

And last, what if the heroes have the upper hand. But well, individual, they do not. Doesn't that mean that the dragon can pick hero's to perish?

questccg
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Action Pint system (APs)

I am thinking about using an Action Point system such that on each turn a player gets THREE (3) Action points. So it's not only about playing a card per turn, you can use your Action points to:

  1. Play a "Fragment" into your or your opponent's storyline = 1 AP.
  2. Draw two (2) card from your deck = 2 APs.
  3. Battle a Minion or Monster = 1 AP.
  4. etc...

So you have choices - it's not only about drawing cards or placing them into your storyline (to win a battle - but you can do this too...)

I don't want anything like Magic combat. I want to stay away from this as much as possible. If my goal is to achieve a game that can become popular, it needs to be DIFFERENT. Like Epic is supposed to by a Magic fix, so what... it does not mean gamers will STOP playing Magic. Probably not.

About stats having "alternative" purpose... Well I can picture "Fragments" like "Mighty Wand" = Converts -3 STR to +2 INT. And right now - because the combat system is connected with the 6 stats, I picture playing around with them... or "Trap Door" = -2 DEX unless a Thief has 1 Light Virtue.

That's sort of what you mean by "penalties" instead of just "bonuses". So yeah there could be NEGATIVE "Fragments".

So if we examine "Trap Door", it's a penalty that requires you to have a THIEF HERO and that Hero requires 1 "Light Virtue". Light Virtue is available when cards a "rotated" and produce Virtue instead of Income.

The whole "Virtue" system of points is still in the early concept stage.

Originally I was going to have reversible cards (two-sided) but it made the game more complicated. So I thought rotating 180 degrees would be a way to go from Income Generation to Virtue Points. Rotating a card take 1 AP.

But a lot needs to be re-thought... I'm just working on some basic ideas and TRYING to see what could and can't work.

My biggest concern is the battle system being TOO SIMPLE.

IDK - it's at the "core" of the game...

questccg
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More about Virtue points

I figured I'd post this up too: there are two (2) types of Virtue points. One is "Light" and the other is "Dark". If you have +10 "Dark" Virtue above the amount of "Light" Virtue - you lose the game.

The reasoning is that your storyline is being "Terrorized" by the Minions and Monsters in your Land.

So while you need to produce Income, you also need to "resolve" Minions and Monsters such that they produce Income for your instead of "Dark" Virtue... And if that is NOT possible, you need to convert Income to "Light" Virtue to close the gap, so to speak.

Again these are embryonic ideas... I'm not sure they will work nor do I propose that +10 is the absolute value. The idea is that Virtue Point go from 1 to 3 points. 3 x 3 + 1 = 10. So the fastest way to beat an opponent is to get 4 "Dark" Virtue cards and that could lead to a quicker Victory.

Still just ideas. But I'd figured I'd explain a little more - since you posted up some good feedback - even with limited information.

@Ramon: Please let me know how your Blind Playtest of "Tradewars - Homeworld" goes... I really hope you enjoy the game.

Cheers.

X3M
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I just texted my cousin about

I just texted my cousin about the blind play test tonight. I think he is still sleeping. But if he can't play tonight, I will still play test it today. No doubt about it.

***

Somewhere I mentioned that the 6 stats are similar in usage at the basics. That is why you have the feeling that it is to simple. But this doesn't have to be a problem.

Let's throw in some more idea's.
What if the battle consumes your 6 stats temporary? Like they are depleted.

Let's say, the opponent has 3 Str and you have 4 Str. You remain with 1 Str after the battle. This has to heal/recharge by 1 point per round.

Items can make it heal/recharge faster.

Items that permanently increased the value, are only to be used above a limit.

Let's say, you have 2 Str, and a weapon would increase this by 1. But requires you to have 3 Str.
With the above suggestion, you need to recharge your Str, until it reaches 3 Str, and you immediately have 4 Str again.

Each hero could exchange one of the 6 into another one by default and when needed. Let's say, you suddenly need 4 Str. and only 1 Dex. Yet you are still at 2 Str. and have 3 Dex. This hero in particular can exchange 2 Dex for 1 Str. for 1 round only. And with the weapon attached. This hero will now have 4 Str. and 1 Dex. for that round. After battling. 0 Str and 0 Dex will remain. But both will recharge with 1 each round.
Active ability.

Yes, that is the perk you have with having 6 similar stats, you can make it so that if more stats are used, they will heal faster combined.
2 Str. 2 Dex. will heal twice as fast than 4 Str. only.

***

This last part kinda reminds me of the armor system that Warcraft3 is using.
No one understood the importance of armor.
Every armor would be 6% more health. Why not add the health then?
Well, later on, you had healing, high armor is healed faster, since 25 health on 0 armor would be 25, while on 10 armor, it would be relatively 40.
The counter effect would be that special attacks with a certain damage. Like 300. Normally, it would be reduced by the armor. 10 armor would reduce it to 187.5 damage instead. But if the attack was special. It would ignore the armor.

So, maybe you can use one or more stats as damage reducers, while the other stats are compared. Of course, hero specific.
If an hero is specialized in speed. Than Dex might be the best value, but some of it might be used to reduce the Str of an opponent.
Passive ability.

Ghillieguy52
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You could allow movement

You could allow movement options that would effect the stats.
Tearrain, moving into shadows +2 DEX
and/or
movement options: Advanceing +1 Strength, retreating +1 INT,etc

or even positioning: surrounding an enemy +1 Wisdom

This is assuming, that there is movement but could also be used to add variety to bonus cards.

BHFuturist
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you might add another layer?

First let me say that I love the ideas and direction of this design.

When I think about adding "depth" and removing the feeling that the game is to "simple" my mind snaps to the concept of "layers".

The Heroes have "stats" and it sounds like those stats are a head to head with the stats of the creatures sent against the "timeline" of the game "story". Stat vs. Stat is one layer of gameplay.

If you add action points to the game or some other form of "spendable" resource that is renewed each round. What would that be used for?

One thing that Action Points or Stamina Points could be used on is "Hero Abilities". In deterministic combat these abilities are not "random to hit rolls" but special attacks or other actions that "cost" the Points. This makes having only one hero on the board not as crippling as you can use any or all of that hero's abilities once per turn. Each of say three abilities would have a cost in line with what that ability does.

SPIT-BALL: There is a lot to describe in an idea about adding a layer to any game but one such "hero" would look something like this:

- Jester/Bard -
Dex: 3
Cha: 5
Int: 2
Abilities:
Juggle: +2 to another in-play hero's "Dex" stat for this round
Dance: Distract one monster for this round
Killer Joke: Kill any non boss monster an Int value < 2

As this is all "spit-balling" without more information on the math of your game. you just have to set the abilities to "cost" points so that the player can only do maybe one "powerful level 3" ability each turn but say three to four level 1 abilities. so with only one hero in play you might be able to to all three of their abilities or (depending on the way you write the rules for abilities) the player might use the level 1 ability several times.

I was working on a deterministic combat card game for a few years that is currently in mothballs but... I did come up with some ways to have these abilities on the in-play cards that could be activated with an external "shared" resource and it worked quite well.

Think of the abilities as any other gameplay modifying action cards that can be re-used at the cost of the points. This also adds more meaning to status effects like "Stun"... we all know heroes can't use special abilities while stunned :)

You could also give Heroes "Traits" like "hates orcs" that does something only when there are orcs in-play.

I hope this ramble helps in some way :)

-Eamon

questccg
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I hear you!

The problem is not so much about "Bonuses" or "Penalties"... The problem is having sufficient "diversity" which is not only "+2 Dex" or "+3 Str", etc.

This game (or this iteration of the game), has to have some kind of "Damage". I may want determinism with pure stat-based battles BUT I also want there to "BE A BATTLE"... Not just "Okay I have enough stats so I win!"

And so this means a "round-system" where damage is computed and conserved.

It could be a very "simple", like 1-5 HP. And each creature has some "rules" for damaging Heroes. You combine more than one (1) Hero and then you can have Healing from a "Cleric" or Magical Potions on your Tableau... etc.

I think "Damage" was what I was missing. And maybe an RPS-3 system which can be Melee-Ranged-Flying-Melee with a Bonus... IDK each Monster can specify the Bonus or Penalty... Again Stats being modified...

And so you would TAP the Heroes and what battle occurs. And then the Monster can play it's AI round and inflict wounds to the Heroes (sometimes one, sometimes several, etc.) This is sounding more like Stats + A BATTLE!!!

So it's not like just "I have the stats so I win!" No it's ROUNDS for a BATTLE in which both sides can inflict wounds... and deal "damage".

I really LIKE where this is going!

Thanks @eamon your ideas helped me think about another LAYER to add.

Tell me what you think?! Cheers.

BHFuturist
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Just some more thoughts

questccg wrote:
The problem is not so much about "Bonuses" or "Penalties"... The problem is having sufficient "diversity" which is not only "+2 Dex" or "+3 Str", etc.

The hero abilities could also be "attacks" in a damage based system. Think about the Pokemon CTCG. With a "stamina" as a cost to activate each attack. A lone hero might use their basic attack more than once... but once you had several heroes on the board you might want to do several cooler combos by activation abilities and attacks on different heroes.

In my game "Orion - Starship battles" each ships is like a hero character with a "role" to play in combat. There are only a few deterministic attacks and abilities on each ship. The cost to use the abilities is based on the fleets "power production" each turn. so where you spend your "energy" determines how things go.

The damage system in my game was not overly complicated but did require two custom "counter tokens" per ship (One for Shield Points and one for Hull Points. This adds to the component cost and so is not for every game design to be sure.

Game Layout Picture

Ship "weapon attacks" had a cost, damage value, and a max "targeting speed".

All of this was on the card in a line of text:

COST:Shield Damage/Hull Damage/Hull Damage if shields are down:SPEED

[4E - 1/1/2 - 6] or [2N - 8/0/2 - 4]

The first would be a small laser that cost 4 Electrical points to fire. It would do one damage to both the Shields and Hull of the target (if shields are up) and two damage if shields are down. The target can have a speed of 6 and still be hit.

The second would be a medium ion cannon that cost 2 Nuclear energy to fire. It would do massive 8 damage to shields (when up) and no damage to the hull (when shields are up) and only two damage to the hull if shields are down. With a 4 tracking speed ships with 4 or lower speed can be hit.

So the first can hit a fighter that has a speed of 6 speed but the second can't. This made it so that massive "death star" type weapons could not target or "track" smaller targets like fighters.

Each ship also could have upgrades that added new weapons and upgrades to things like shield regeneration. but these upgrades added to the "build cost" of the ships.

-----

I know that this sort of thing can't smoothly transition to your game but I thought you might be able to think about your game a new way after reading the way I was working through some things.

Your attacks might have a combo of things like can target 4 Dex or less. This might show that a hero can't use that attack against targets that move fast. or an attack only works against "dumb" monsters with Int under X (or if monster has no Int value).

in fact each hero in your game might generate an amount of "stamina" for the team. This way you gain more as the team grows...

Just throwing out ideas, I also love where your design is going :)

===Edit===
I found an old image I was using to try and explain the combat HERE
==========
-Eamon

Supafrieke
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I like the idea of a

I like the idea of a deterministic combat system and the matching/beating certain stat combinations is a good take. I was thinking of a riff on the Skystones minigame from skylanders.

Monsters and heros could be square cards that have stats around the edges, maybe these stat combinations represent different attacks or abilities. The monster is played to the table to start a combat. The player selects a hero (or combo of heroes) who has an attack or ability that counters one of the monsters; the hero is rotated and placed so the card indicates the heroes success.

The player continues to play heroes into the combat, spending action points each round and absorbing damage until all a monsters powers are defeated and the player is victorious. The monster may also have minions that are played into the tableau who might assist or defeat heros, knocking them out of the combat.

questccg
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It's going to have to be SPECIAL!

As I explained my Blog, the game is not ONLY about "Combat". It's about creating an EPIC Journey, one that can be related and explained once the game is over...

The game is comprised of "Fragments" in the following categories: Terror, Boon, Challenge, Heroism and Ether (TBD). I'm not sure if I want four (4) or five (5) categories. Ether has yet to be determined.

Terrors are creatures, monsters, curses, plagues, penalties, etc. Boons are bonuses that can help a player in various ways and can be manifested in all sorts of ways such as items, equipment, magical treasures, etc. Challenges can be both positive or negative, for example a positive Challenge could be a "mini-quest" such as to recover a stolen relic. A negative one could be a "snake pit", etc. Heroisms are of course different types of characters or Heroes that can help a player in battle the forces of evil through combat or some other means. The last category "Ether" was supposed to be things like Nature or other Godly cards. Things that do not come from the natural world/land...

Cheers!

questccg
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Adding Damage

What adding "Damage" does is introduce several new "categories" of cards:

A> Cards that can "cause" damage.
B> Cards that can "reduce" damage.
C> Cards that can "heal" damage.

What adding "RPS-3" for Heroisms and Terrors also yields several new "categories" of cards too:

A> Cards that allow you "flight".
B> Cards that allow you to use "projectiles".
C> Cards that allow you inflict "melee damage".

In this example "C>" could be a minion/familiar. B> could be a enchanted scroll with a spell like "Magic Missile" ... etc.

The "Fragments" categories allow for different types of cards to be all a part of the same category. Like Boons; if I had categories for Items, Equipment, Relics, Magic Treasures, etc. It would be TOO MUCH. A "Boon" is something helpful and as such can be various types of items...

Just adding some more *details* to better flesh out how Combat relates...

BHFuturist
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Quick questions?

At this stage of development what does the game flow look like?

I really like what I have read about the two timelines and how they interact. But, what is the "phase order" and what types of actions can player's do each turn (other than draw and play cards). Also, how does the game move from phase to phase?

How many decks are there? It sounds like only one deck (per person) but I just want to be sure as it could be Three. The third deck being the "world deck" of quests and challenges that both players have to deal with...

I know this is a lot of questions but...

Do Heroes or Heroism cards go in the timeline or do they sit on their own?

-Eamon

questccg
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EPIC Journey!

eamon wrote:
At this stage of development what does the game flow look like?

It's still in Early Design... Just a bunch of ideas all trying to make sense - before I develop a prototype and personally playtest the game. I have a "vision" of the game - it's "simple" but has a lot of depth... Achieving this is very difficult. My "vision" consists of one (1) Player, playing one card into his timeline. It was a very strong "vision" - I can remember it vividly.

eamon wrote:
How many decks are there? It sounds like only one deck (per person) but I just want to be sure as it could be Three. The third deck being the "world deck" of quests and challenges that both players have to deal with...

"Quests" are part of the "Challenge" Fragment. Also included is "Traps". So there does not need to be a separate deck for these types of cards.

eamon wrote:
Do Heroes or Heroism cards go in the timeline or do they sit on their own?

All Characters and Heroes ("Heroism" cards) go directly into the timeline.

Everyday (or so), I review and re-read the ideas I have jotted down and see what inspires me. The true challenge is making all those ideas compatible with each, so to speak!

I don't doubt that "Tradewars - Homeworld" (TWHW) will probably be sold before this design takes off. On another note, TWHW is planned for Expansion too... So I don't know when THIS design will materialize. We shall see...

questccg
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Pieces all struggling to form a cohesive unit...

eamon wrote:
Do Heroes or Heroism cards go in the timeline or do they sit on their own?

I just wanted to add, that having a "hand" to draw card from a "deck" - and then having a second (2nd) hand - would probably complicate the game. While it's possible to manage two (2) hands (like in "Quest Adventure Cards(tm)" with the Treasury), it's not a smooth flow - the two hands lead to disparities.

Originally I was planning to use card "Rotation" - but I've found a simpler way of handling the interaction between players: Each card gives the player ONE (1) resource and his opponent one or MORE resources. And they would be printed "up-side-down" on the cards themselves...

Example: "Heroism" = Andar The Brave. Earns +2 Light Virtue. Opponent +1 Gold and +1 Dark Virtue.

So what does the "Andar" card mean?! It means the Hero produces Light Virtue which you can use to unlock magical abilities in say a Boon. But at the same time it gives your opponent the opportunity of having Gold to recruit another Hero (for example) or buy some kind of lesser Boon like a Healing Potion. It also gives the opponent Dark Virtue which will allow the opponent to play Terrors into your timeline. So while this is a 1:1 match, this is not the case for every card/fragment in the game...

And maybe it should be: Andar = 2 Light Virtue; 1 Gold and 3 Dark Virtue.

The idea is IF you play "Heroism", you ATTRACT the attention of potential opposition. Makes sense, the more "Heroism" the more likely that there are Terrors in play.

More general ideas, cards go from one (1) to nine (9) and the average would be between 4 and 5 points. Making the game wrap up with about 20 - 25 cards on the table... The current Victory goal would be 100 points. Again these are pieces that I am putting together. Right now 100 = 25 x 4 or 100 = 20 x 5 seems to work (on paper).

Again more ideas...

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