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Game that makes no sense

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questccg
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I'm working on a new game idea. However my problem is that the game does not seem to make any sense... What I mean by this is that the game has mechanics including resource management and deck building.

In itself, the game is been designed as a more challenging Yu-Gi-Oh! game (hence the resource management). It is also meant for an older audience (like 16+ because of the added strategy).

So here is what is different: you have "skills", four (4) to be exact. Strength (STR), Endurance (END), Intellect (INT) and Dexterity (DEX). The maximum these skills when added up together cannot EXCEED twenty (20). So far so good...

Now each creature you control is DEFINED by the skills... For example: A black dragon requires an MINIMUM INT = 7 or a Fire Sprite requires a MAXIMUM STR = 3, etc. So the mechanics are cool and do require a fair amount of strategy to use...

BUT what the fnck are these "skills" supposed to be? The game offers these "skills" as part of gameplay. However I don't know what they are (or more precisely what I should make them)???

questccg
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Controlling two or more creatures

questccg wrote:
For example: A black dragon requires an MINIMUM INT = 7 or a Fire Sprite requires a MAXIMUM STR = 3, etc.

Creatures can have special abilities:

-A black dragon has Flight (Invunrable to basic attacks) and Fire breath (which gives a ranged attack bonus of +4).
-A fire sprite also has Flight and Fire touch (which give an attack bonus of +2)

My attack formula currently is: (ATK) - (DFS) or (2 x STR) - (END + DEX).

However what does not make sense is to control more than one (1) creature. Let's say your INT = 8 and your STR = 3... In theory you could play BOTH the Black dragon and the Fire sprite.

The problem is both have the SAME "skills". This again makes no sense; how can you have two (2) creatures with IDENTICAL stats???

questccg
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Mechanics work just don't make any sense

In a typical Yu-Gi-Oh! dual, a player can play multiple creatures.

In theory so can my game... Just they are identical with the exception of any particular special abilities.

In essence my game is an "improved" Yu-Gi-Oh! experience because of the "skills"... But in the context of theme, it all doesn't make sense! Even thought the game is more strategic than your typical Yu-Gi-Oh! dual... The parts just don't add up.

bonsaigames
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Creature Abilities

If the Creatures have their own combat stats and it is the player's skills that determine which creatures he / she can control then you would avoid your problem. Of course, you would also basically be playing M:tG with Skills instead of Mana.

questccg
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Heroes or Avatars???

bonsaigames wrote:
Of course, you would also basically be playing M:tG with Skills instead of Mana.

That doesn't sound "unreasonable"... Each creature could have it's own health points and bonuses which could alter the creatures base stats... Hmm... That's kinda interesting. Plus creatures can have their own special abilities (as mentionned before).

The only problem, is that I don't know WHAT my "skills" cards should be? Perhaps they should be Heroes or Avatars?

Tenelen
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I think I kind of understand

I think I kind of understand what your problem is.

You are saying that if the Player has 8 INT and 3 STR then they can play both of the Dragon and Sprite.

Because of that though, the Creatures that you play don't have individual combat skills? So I would think that the problem solution would be giving the Player their own "skills" and the Creatures their own. You could give the Creatures life and attack power (or even all four skills) and also give players their own skills; that way you could restrict the player from playing Creatures unless the Player has the required skills to play them, but the Creatures themselves each have their own skills.

Maybe I'm not seeing what exactly the problem is though, but I hope that helps.

questccg
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Same old theme...

Tenelen wrote:
I think I kind of understand what your problem is...
Maybe I'm not seeing what exactly the problem is though, but I hope that helps.

Yes it does help. I think that the Player's skills should be the BASE skills. And each creature has its own MODIFIERS (for skills) and special abilities. That would make the creatures different from each other (and behave differently with things like Flight, different attacks - fire/poison/frost/etc.)

The REAL problem is figuring out what the Player's skills should be??? I mean in terms of "theme"... What do I print onto the cards? The skills and that is it?! Currently all I have as an idea is Heroes or Avatars. So you would have a party of Heroes or Avatars that would control creatures...

Sounds somewhat plausible. I was wondering if anyone had any "thematic" ideas... The whole Heroes or Avatars sounds a little like D&D or MtG (Planeswalker). I just wanted to know if anyone had other ideas...

questccg
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The "Avatar" theme

questccg wrote:
Sounds somewhat plausible. I was wondering if anyone had any "thematic" ideas... The whole Heroes or Avatars sounds a little like D&D or MtG (Planeswalker). I just wanted to know if anyone had other ideas...

The "theme" of the skills cards will decide what the story behind the game will be.

Right now I have the idea of Avatars - Gods come from the Heavens to the Earth in a human persona. Each god lends his own powers, combined with the other gods, to control fantastic creatures from different realms with which they rage in battle against opposing gods.

This sounds somewhat interesting - I just wanted to know if anyone else had "thematic" suggestions...

whoshim
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Not sure if this is what you are asking

It seems like you are wondering how the player relates to the game. If you call the things needed to play creatures 'skills', then the player seems like a wizard or hero. If you call the things 'resources' (so instead of STR, DEX, INT, etc., you have Wood, Ore, Fairy Dust, Twinkies), then the player is less directly a person, but rather an entity like a nation, or the top council of a nation (though you could imagine them as a monarch or general). You could also give the things names like lesser and greater flora, lesser and greater fauna, and then the player's role is more to set a certain ecological system in place to be able to play certain creatures. This could be a defined role like a zookeeper, beastmaster, ecologist, or whatnot, or it could be totally undefined (there is no specific entity that the player is acting as).

Hope that that helps.

questccg
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Thanks whoshim

whoshim wrote:
It seems like you are wondering how the player relates to the game.

Yes thanks - that is what I meant. With your explanation we have come up with an alternate "theme". Going with "nation" or leader, we have thought up of four (4) things that could define a leader of a nation:

-POWER: armies, soldiers, territories, castles, subjects, etc.
-WEALTH: metals (including gold), treasures, food, luxuries, etc.
-KNOWLEDGE: info about enemies, info about technology, etc.
-CHARISMA: influence, diplomacy, tact, persona, etc.

This will definetly "stirr the pot"... It also still can work with my "Avatar" theme - but indirectly (as you explained): each Avatar has his own "attributes". Still thinking about it... I want to bring a "tank" to a "first fight"! :D

questccg
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Nation/leader theme

Having said "attributes" (Power, wealth, knowledge and charisma) is forcing me to think about different types of creatures. It make me think: "How is a creature motivated?" Bloodlust, greed, status or honor.

questccg
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Thanks for the help

Well since people really helped me out with this - I am going to spill the beans on why the age group (16+):

-I want the game to be played for MONEY! ;)

I'm not certain how this will work (again ideas greatly appreciated) - but the goal is for the players to exchange money during combat. And obviously this will add more depth to the game... Call it part poker (draw four (4) "attribute" cards) combined with COST to summon creatures - wins for defeating creatures.

I hope that the game could be played with standard POKER chips. The concept is still very new...

deFunkt29
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Although I'm not a huge fan

Although I'm not a huge fan of having to pay money to play the game, I think gambling in a ccg is a very interesting game. Laying bets to who will win different rounds of combat, paying to summon creatures, and winning different parts of the pot would be very cool (in my opinion). If you made it more of a group game (not just 1v1) it could be quite fun and social as well.

Tenelen
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A way that you could

A way that you could incorporate money would be to charge players for each Monster they can play. Somehow change one of the "skills" on the creatures to a "cost." When they want to play the creature they have to put the money into a pot in the center. Then you can set up a situation in which players can win the pot (ie: If you win a battle you win the pot).

Or better yet, the way that they can win the money is to win the game. If there are more than two people in the game you could split the pot between the top two players even.

questccg
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More than two players

deFunkt29 wrote:
If you made it more of a group game (not just 1v1) it could be quite fun and social as well.

Interesting. Making it more than a dual might be difficult. As of today, the maximum creatures you can play is three (3). BUT that is just the TYPE of creature in play. Your POWER stat determines how many of each creature you can summon (1-9). So you can control up to 18 creatures at one time. Each time you add a creature to the battle field, you pay the COST for summoning the creature into the pot facing the card (if there are three (3) creatures - there are three (3) pots). You also stack a chip on your creature's pile (so if you have nine (9) creatures - you will have nine (9) chips).

That is what defines an ARMY: the number of creatures (chips) you have. In addition there is a pot for each creature (where you pay for the cost of summoning).

The WEALTH stat is used on each turn and earns you that much money on your turn (income). So if my wealth = 3 (pretty poor), then I would only earn three (3) chips that turn.

So I think early on in the game, players will want HIGH wealth to accumulate more money. They may have small skirmishes, to see who wins the blinds. But no big warfare. As each player gets suficient wealth, he will DECREASE the need for wealth and INCREASE his need for power.

Now there are also KNOWLEDGE and CHARISMA stats. These will mostly impact "instant" cards that can be played. Because you can win by using charisma instead of just doing battle... Knowledge will be used like spells that can affect the army or it's skills or the contents of one of the pots (ex: take 5 chips from one of the pot - collect taxes).

Making it a four (4) player game might be possible: the three (3) pots stay in the middle of the table. Players pay into the correct pot.

In the two player game, the battles are a dual - one monster type vs. another. You do not combine creatures - they are on separate battlefields (As of today...)

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