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Hex tiles vs. a full Board?

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Three
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Morning guys, the old version of my combat game had a flat 10x10 gameboard but I'd like to experiment with using hex tiles that make a custom board each time.

I want to know your personal thoughts on combat games with modular boards (hex tiles), and games with just a fixed board. Games that come to mind include Heroscape, Summonerwars, and Super Dungeon Explore to a degree. Which do you prefer?

I'm also looking for feedback on the older version of rules found on my blog. Where I am I don't have access to my actual work setup, so sorry for the lower resolution.

Older Rules
http://mattywthompson.tumblr.com/post/105966908511/the-rulebook-for-one-...

Thanks!

adversitygames
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I like modular, one of my

I like modular, one of my current games in development uses such a system, and uses random placement.

Using modular for random setup is interesting because it gives you a lot more variety in challenges, but it's hard to balance it well unless the locations are all very similar in significance (which dumbs down the amount of challenge that can possibly exist in the random setup)

Using it as modular with preset scenarios (eg Descent, Doom) overcomes the balance issue by being preset. I think this can be very good for adding replay value to a game.

The downside of the modular components in general is: Fiddly to set up, prone to wear and tear, and hard to produce a solid coherent game board which serves other purposes (like giving you places to put cards or tokens to help players organise, or including things like turn order summary). It's also a hassle to use if your game table is at all uneven, since that causes the modular components to get misaligned.

Three
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I have a picture of the old

I have a picture of the old board on the first page of the rules.
http://66.media.tumblr.com/2c07420f414ff4f19f56a24b6bd480d1/tumblr_nh1l0...

To me it feels like a limited amount of space for a combat game, as small scale as it is. I wanted to use hexes to experiment with things like terrain or unique board shapes rather than a 10x10 square.

Originally I wanted a more random element in tile placement, while offering a preset board setup in the rules.

gilamonster
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board layout and balance

Can you design a board which would give one player a clear advantage over the other?
If so, a fixed board is probably better unless you can constrain the board layout process to avoid unbalanced situations.

Otherwise, the advantages of a modular board:
1. Greater replayability (obviously)
2. You can alter the size of the game (bigger boards would presumably result in longer games, smaller ones for shorter games)
3. It would be easier to modify the game to accomodate more than two players
4. A modular board allows players to set up custom scenarios and campaigns of multiple scenarios.

A fixed board would allow easier analysis of the game (which some people would like, and others hate - so you can decide whether you regard it as an advantage or disadvantage).

adversitygames
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Yes, it is a limited space.

Yes, it is a limited space. Do you want a big game or a small game? Both have their own potential players.

I don't think you know what you want.

The art style says "light and casual" to me, so I'd expect it to be a small game, like an hour play time.

Three
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I want to remake the entire

I want to remake the entire project, but if something was functional with the old prototype I don't want to throw that away just for the sake of making something different.

What I want is a more streamlined, faster, version of what I have now. I like the idea of using hexes for custom maps for the reasons listed above. During playtesting the board felt more restrictive than anything, which is why I'm hesitant to make the board fixed / smaller again.

That does sound like I'm unsure in hindsight. It's true-but this is helping me a lot.

Squinshee
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Three wrote:What I want is a

Three wrote:
What I want is a more streamlined, faster, version of what I have now. I like the idea of using hexes for custom maps for the reasons listed above. During playtesting the board felt more restrictive than anything, which is why I'm hesitant to make the board fixed / smaller again.

This confuses me. You want the game to be faster, and making a bigger board would achieve that? I'd think a smaller board would better achieve what you wanted. Maybe you should revisit how movement occurs in your game. Movement mechanics strictly exist to restrict what a player is allowed to do and always slow games down. If you want a faster game, maybe you could abstract a board. Maybe the board is five (randomly chosen number) rows and any number of characters can occupy a row. This has the potential to make movement simpler (only up and down) and faster (fewer choices).

I have a hard time imagining that a board with randomized hexes would make the game faster. Setup alone is slower.

Hope this helps!

Three
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A board made with hexes

A board made with hexes wouldn't necessarily be bigger. What I like about using tiles the most is the ability to control how large/small the game is. So if you'd want a faster game you would use fewer hexes to make the board, and more for a larger scale game.

My main concern with Hexes is, if I use them, should I make unique terrain rules or just keep them blank? And if I did make terrain how would I balance it in such a way where one player doesn't get shafted with a bad opening area. Presets came up, and I'm liking that a lot.

Thanks for the help!

GeordieY
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If you want it to be more

If you want it to be more streamlined and faster, hexes seem to be in direct conflict with that idea. Hexes with unique terrain properties would add even more complexity and, subsequently, would tack on even more play time. A standardized board would make for a more streamlined, faster game in every circumstance I can currently think of.

Squinshee
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Agreed. You want to

Agreed. You want to streamline the game and make it faster, but your proposed means of doing so (hexes) runs contrary to that. The simplest incorporation of hexes would be no terrain, but different map configurations and shapes, the second option is terrain types, the third option is both.

You want to accomplish two things – added variance and faster gameplay – so you're trying to accomplish both of those with one solution, being the board. I like this approach to design problems a lot, but I think it may end up making Red more complicated.

GeordieY
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And, to be clear, I

And, to be clear, I personally prefer hexes simply for the variety and added level of interesting decisions that could arise (depending on the game's rules and mechanics).

However, there is much to be said for simple, streamlined, short games. If a game is fun and has good replay value while having a minimal amount of complexity, and doesn't require players to invest their entire night in playing it, it is more likely to be a popular game (and probably much harder to design). It will be more accessible, easier to teach, and therefore perfect for introducing games to new players. Also, simple games can still be deep in their own ways.

Ultimately, what is your goal? Decide on what type of game you WANT to make. Then, apply the appropriate requirements in all aspects of the design (including the board).

Good luck!

Three
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Thanks again for all the

Thanks again for all the feedback! I understand where you guys are coming from. Another solution was to make a double sided board, with a smaller map on one side and a larger one on the other.

The "trapped" feeling with a 10x10 board could have been how Movement / turn structure worked in hindsight. I'll need to adjust that a bit and see what I come up with.

alandor
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Three wrote:the old version

Three wrote:
the old version of my combat game had a flat 10x10 gameboard but I'd like to experiment with using hex tiles that make a custom board each time.
Thanks!

I've taken the opposite route with my game. It started as a modular map consisting of 12 different tiles that were aligned to create a modular board. This is where I started because I like the variability of modular game boards. In order to make the game more streamlined I removed lots of things that weren't necessary and I found that the modular tiles was one of these things. I think the reason my game plays just as well on a predefined game board is that it didn't make enough use of the modular setup and that variability was enough with the predefined board.
Three wrote:
My main concern with Hexes is, if I use them, should I make unique terrain rules or just keep them blank?

I think that in order to make use of the variability in modular boards you need different terrain that affects movement. The best uses of modular boards I've seen are the ones that have roads on the edges and where you can only travel along these roads. This means the setup isn't completely random but you must make sure the roads align when building the board. My point is that if creating a modular game board ends up with a set of terrain tiles that are just organized in different patterns you are probably not making enough use of the modularity and could as well use a predefined map. But if there are rules when building the game board that create maps with widely different game experiences then you're using it the right way.

It may seem like an obvious point but modular game boards do not by default mean good variation. It must be designed the right way. It took me a number of redesigns to realize this.

Three
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The main reason I wanted to

The main reason I wanted to stream line things with the rules was because there were some road bumps during playtesting when it came to team composition. Of course the very first time playing everyone wanted to read over each character card, and that became less frequent the more we played, but there would still be some time in designing which characters/items you'd pick.

Thinking about it now adding modular tiles to the mix would be a huge slog. Seriously, thanks for all your comments. I'm glad I thought to ask before moving forward with designing anything.

X3M
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My view on this

Since it is a wargame and you would like to have a modular board.

Here is how I handle it:
My wargame has different races/units and they are depending on terrain design.
I use the rule, that each player may add each their own modular boardparts. That will be their homeground. So, imbalances in the game are strategically reduced, by players choices. If an enemy invades their home, they have an home advantage.
Either by their strategy choice, or race/units, or both.

This even works well if you have symetrical armies.

The worst combination is of course symetrical boards with different races.

Symetrical armies on a symetrical board is an utopia game.

Three
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That was one of my ideas

That was one of my ideas early on. For now I'm writing my rules with a fixed board. Are there any wargames that use a static board but have an expansion that uses modular tiles?

questccg
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What you could consider

Is MODULAR "mats" that have hex squares on them. But you can orient each mat in four (4) different positions. I believe that if you have four (4) mats that's 16 different combinations.

It's in-between the concept of TILES and BOARD. It is also probably the cheapest options out of all three.

It's more flexible than a static board but less flexible that tiles. But it could be the option you are looking for - if it's something do-able and not too expensive...

X3M
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Three wrote:That was one of

Three wrote:
That was one of my ideas early on. For now I'm writing my rules with a fixed board. Are there any wargames that use a static board but have an expansion that uses modular tiles?

A good example would be Advanced Squad Leader.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Squad_Leader

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Squad_Leader_Modules

http://boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/ASL_Modules

Have fun with that.

((Can't find the "all boards" website. Can any one help with that?))

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