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New Game idea... HELP!

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jfeldman
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Joined: 08/11/2013

Hello there! I'm new to BGDF, and very new to game design, but I've been playing games for a while and always thought it would be cool to design one. I never put in the time before, because I never had an idea to go off of.

Well, the other day, I had a sudden brain surge! My idea is for a sort of light card game based around Evel Knievel-esque dardevils. The point of the game is to put on the best performance of the daredevils (players) by scoring the most points. The player who scores the highest in a given Show(round) wins the round, and whoever wins the most Shows is the victor!

So, to do this, players will draw a hand of cards (I'm not sure how many yet, see below) from a common deck. These cards will feature stunts the daredevils will be performing (i.e. backflipping off a jump, jumping a bus). Each card would have an associated point worth, based on it's difficulty to complete (I'll get to what I mean by this in a minute). Players will be able to play multiple cards at once to create more exciting stunts for more points, by, say instead of doing a backflip, they do a backflip... over a jumbo jet... while blindfolded!

So, as I mentioned above, there is a difficulty involved with pulling off these stunts, but what that difficulty is, I need help deciding. One of my main ideas was to have a die roll associated with each trick, with the die roll needed to pass increasing based on the number of points. Adding more cards to the stunt would increase the die roll the player needs to pass. If the player doesn't pass the roll, they crashed and messed up their stunt, so they don't score. This would then create a "push your luck" element, where players have to decide how grandiose to go with their stunts, trying to make it big without falling on their face. I had 2 different ways i thought of implementing this:

1) Use normal dice, and have a die number corresponding to each card scaling with the points it's worth, and then a second die value on each card for what they add to that die roll if they are used as a supplementary card in the stunt.

2) Use custom dice with "crash" and "success" symbols on them, but have several, color-coded versions that scale in difficulty (similar to what Zombie Dice has). Then instead of a number value, high-point trick cards use a die with less "success" symbols on it, and cards used to supplement tricks would simply add their die to the trick, with a certain number of the dice having to be a success for the trick to be pulled off.

Another variable I thought of was what I call the "Audience Cards". The audience deck would be a second deck, representing the audience's mood, and what they want to see. One of these cards would be flipped over every round, and provide some alteration to points scoring. For example, maybe the audience really wants to see front flips one round, so front flip-based stunts are worth twice as much.

Some other issues I know need addressing that I haven't worked out yet are:
1) hand size (which will be decided in playtesting, I'm sure)

2) whether players redraw up to full hands or are limited to a number of redraws after each round

3) should players play simultaneously choose their stunts or take turns with a rotating "first" player

As you can see, I have a lot of kinks to work out in this. I am still in the early planning stages, and I just want to get a rough set of the rules out before I do some rough mock-up and start my playtesting. So please, if you have any suggestions on the things I mentioned, any other mechanics or ideas I could utilize in the game, or any other type of help or input (good or bad) please speak up!

Thanks SO much!
- Josh Feldman

Corsaire
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Joined: 06/27/2013
Interesting idea, doesn't

Interesting idea, doesn't ring a bell to other games though I imagine there are some combat games with combos. I would think rotating first player to get a sense of one-upsmanship; possibly even force players to exceed the prior player's score in order to do their stunt.

jfeldman
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Joined: 08/11/2013
Thanks for the input! Yeah, I

Thanks for the input! Yeah, I have been leaning towards the player rotation myself, the more I think about it. How about the dice mechanic? I have been leaning towards the custom dice version, as it would be easier to teach/explain, plus I love custom dice :)

Squinshee
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Joined: 10/17/2012
Dicey dice

This game is so simple that you could crap out a prototype REAL fast. I recommend that you fill in your questionable values (hand size, redraw #, and simul/turn play) and see how it plays. If you don't like the flow, simply play it again and change the values. Now is the time to worry if your central gameplay mechanic (risk//reward dice rolls) is fun enough.

My worry is that it isn't. I find relying on rolling dice is too easy. I do like the strategy of risking more stunts for higher payoff (and I think a rotating turn structure that changes who goes first will work better than simultaneous reveal), but this kind of game wouldn't appeal to me. It's too luck based. But that's totally my preference - this may be right up your alley, and if it is, go for it!

Other suggestions: if you want to add some more choices into the mix, maybe each player chooses a different racer that gives bonuses for certain strings of stunts or just certain stunts. Asymmetric gameplay (everyone uses the same rule set but can alter playstyle via characters/races/civilizations/etc.) players to further explore the game. Again though, this is the kind of stuff that draws ME to games.

I hope even just a sentence of this helped.

Martin-r-m
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Joined: 07/26/2012
Work on the mechanics

I too think that the game sounds too simple. The game idea is good and it is a nice start.
My ideas to this idea :
I would add some bidding mechanic. Who dares the most ?
Taking a card and then throwing dice doesn´t leave much space for game tactics. What if you take cards with i.E. "Busses" or "Ramp length" which modify your ability to jump more spectacular, then when the stunt is made you throw dice which decide how many of these cards you are allowed to use. There is some risk management when bidding.
The audience is important for stuntmen. So add them in some way. Collect the audience after a good stunt and who has most at the end wins ? Is the number of audience available before or after bidding ? Has someone seen a card before other player have seen it ?
What happens if you fail your stunt ? Do you loose all your hand cards ? Audience ? Can you retry the stunt if it only failed merely ?

some thoughts - I wish you a lot of fun with this project. The best moment in game design is when a feeling or scenario gets cought by a fitting game mechanic. It suddenly is as if there never was an other possibility than this one and that makes me as a designer feel happy.

verspielte grüße
martin

jfeldman
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Joined: 08/11/2013
Major Update/Overhaul

Thanks for the input guys! Yeah, I feel the same way about the luck aspect, actually. I was going to bring it up in my initial post but I forgot to. I like some luck based gameplay because it makes the game fun for less talented/newer players, but I do want to add more tactical elements. Any more suggestions for ways to make it more tactical would be great, but the last couple posts already gave me a few more ideas I wanna throw out there. This was going to be a light card game, but I have so many cool things I want to add, it's gonna be more of a full on board game!

1) Instead of score, the stunts win you audience approval, represented by little audience meeples from a pool of meeples, the number of which is decided by the number of players in the game. At the end, the one with the most meeple wins.

2) The players have an individual board corresponding to their specific daredevil, all of whom will have a unique bonus. The board represents the daredevil's show space, and they perform stunts on their turn by laying down cards on their board to improve their stunts, but only have a limited number of spaces to lay cards in for that stunt. So a person might have 3 spaces, and place down 2 buses, each of which nets them an extra 2 audience members (fans), and a ring of fire, which nets them 5, for performing their stunt successfully.

4) Players earn money by fulfilling contracts with businesses hosting their events. Contracts might entail doing a certain type of trick or pulling in a certain amount of fans in one turn. Contracts are purchased by bidding against other players in a bragging war: The dare devils bet on how many fans they think their next trick will net them. The betting order from highest to lowest determine the purchasing order for items and contracts. However, failing to meet their bragged about number of fans will result in penalties to fans earned, for not meeting expectations.

5) Players get their props, modifiers, and tricks by choosing from a pool of cards in the center, changed each turn. The purchase order goes based off of the betting order, but only one item may be purchased at a time until all players have had a chance. These cards, after being used for a stunt, are then discarded, and new ones will be purchased next show (round)

I am debating whether to keep the system where player rolls for success of their stunt, but am unsure what to replace it with. I want a risk-taking element,because it fits the theme so well. Maybe the tricks don't fail outright, but have some penalty associated with bad rolls? please keep the input coming, it is really helping, and thanks again!

StagCutlery
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Joined: 06/02/2013
Bidding

What if there was a bidding system? Like players could bet the number of fans they have? Hitting tricks would gain fans and missing would lose them?

Or what if you drew the event randomly which sets the difficulty (and base reward), then each player had a chance to hinder themselves? You keep bidding around making it harder until someone calls it and a player has to go. Each hindrance modifies the base reward in some fashion.

Over the top of 10 buses... through the Wall of Church Bibles... off the Monster Trampoline... and through the Ring of Thermite!
"... I can do that blindfolded."
"I can do that blindfolded and no sleep the night before."
"Okay, I'll do blindfolded, no sleep, ... on a unicycle."
"Ha. Go then."

Corsaire
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Joined: 06/27/2013
I'd keep the custom dice

I'd keep the custom dice mechanic. Make success assumed if you have enoguh requirements to play the cards. But every stunt requires at least one die roll that has a single skull or such for a crash and a symbol for stunning success that has a bonus associated. Then an extra crash that is triggered in some cases and maybe a mechanical failure one that you can pay to get rid of. The theme sounds fun, but for me it is the sort of fun I'd want from a card+die pick-up sort of game; I wouldn't buy a board game of it.

Leadpipe
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Joined: 08/09/2008
Diceless suggestion, keep it simple

I agree with dropping the dice mechanic, at least as I am understanding it here. It is very difficult to balance dice so that one terrible roll doesn't basically take you out of the game (unless your opponents also have terrible rolls) and it's frustrating to have the lack of control that dice bring. If you stick with it, try to use a pool of dice that you can assign in various places.

I would suggest having the stunt cards that you mentioned and also have skill cards that let you complete the stunts. You might even want to have all of the cards be dual use so they could either be a stunt or have skills on them. Some sample skills would be speed, steering, power (for jumps), and showmanship. To maintain the push your luck aspect some skill cards could have minimal (or zero) skills, but prompt you to turn over cards from the top of the deck when you use them that apply to your skills for the stunt.

One of the positives of this approach is that if people get the poor luck of not having matching cards, they could save their cards until the next hand and hopefully come back with bigger/more stunts. I think this effect would naturally cause the level of stunts to escalate, which keeps the tension going until the end of the game.

As this is your first game, I would warn you against upping the complexity...at least before you prototype. I find that the most useful method is to prototype only the core of the game and then add things on after you've verified that the base game works. This also allows you to "fail early", i.e. if the base game doesn't work like you thought it would, you've put in much less time.

jfeldman
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Joined: 08/11/2013
Too much, too soon

I really appreciate all the feedback I've gotten up to this point. It has helped me realize a lot of things about my game ideas. I definitely appreciate the feedback of not trying to go too complicated on my first game, and I also agree that the theme of my game (which is the part of the game I came up with first and fell in love with) supports a lighter game versus a very involved game. One thing I know for sure is that I need some risk-taking element, it just fits the theme of the game so perfectly. I also very much enjoyed the idea of braggadocio between players, with them bragging about who can pull off the most spectacular stunt. That being said, I hate games that practically play themselves, being based almost solely on luck, and I've been mulling over ways to keep my game light but still have depth and player choice. I need to find/think of a mechanic or two to breath more depth into how players will decide how glorious of a stunt to go for, and how they will determine if they pull it off, while still maintaining that feeling of "Oh man, this is gonna be a close one!". Any suggestions/feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Parthon
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Joined: 07/08/2013
Some thoughts

This is a very interesting idea, and I'd love to try it out actually.

Personally, I would keep the dice, because as the nature of stunts goes, they are risky and having dice determine outcome makes a lot more sense while fitting the theme really well. If it's too strategic, then people are just going to turn it into a numbers game and then it would be no fun. It seems like the fun in this game comes from the push-your-luck aspect. Sorry to all the others that hate dice, but I really do think this game would be ruined without them.

I was thinking of having multiple d6 dice with custom faces, but those faces are numbered. So there would be red/yellow/green, but red rolls 1-6, yellow rolls 3-8 and green rolls 5-10. How this would work into the game is that there's an "trick deck" and each round a trick is drawn which determines the trick all of the players are performing. A trick starts off with a difficulty that needs to be met, and a number/colour of dice to be rolled. The players can then use their cards to give themselves more dice or less dice, make the trick harder or easier. Blindfold/Flips/Stunts for making the difficulty higher, and bike upgrades/trick modifiers to make the difficulty lower and gain dice. What would make it interesting is say combining a blindfold with a turbo booster. You get +1 red dice, but you need an extra +5 to win, for example. ;)

Now once the player has played all the cards, they roll their dice and try and beat the difficulty. If they win, they get their dice result, plus the difficulty, plus a bonus from any cards they played. This means the higher the difficulty, the more points, but also if they lost dice they get points for that too. Then the player with the most points wins that rounds and gets +1 score.

Also if the player fails to roll high enough to beat the score, then they wipe out, and the trick card determines what happens when they wipe out. They might miss a turn from being in hospital, or lose all of their cards because their bike got wrecked.

I REALLY like the core idea of the game, it sounds like it could be a lot of fun. :D

jfeldman
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Joined: 08/11/2013
Thanks for the feedback!

Thanks for the feedback! A lot of the idea you listed here was my initial idea for the game, actually, right down to the colored dice. I was going to have symbols, but numbers work just as well! I think instead of score, I want to go with meeples that represent your fanbase, only because it adds a thematic level. I really like the idea of having a card system that can also give you a helping hand, on top of adding difficulty. I think that moving forward, I want the game to go a bit like this:

1) You have a hand of cards from a common middle deck

2) You bid about how many fans you can pull in for the turn, with an, as of yet, undecided reward for winning the bid (maybe a "hype" bonus which adds extra fans for living up to your bragging?) / punishment for not following through on your bid (with the obvious being a penalty to the fans you get, maybe none)

3) You play the cards from your hand to decide the difficulty of the stunt you perform, also altering how many fans you will pull in.

4) At the end of X rounds, whoever has the most fans/meeples wins.

Corsaire
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Joined: 06/27/2013
Keep custom dice

I think the concept sounds more and more tight. I was thinking about the custom dice. The most thrilling dice rolling I've done is playing Elder Sign. The take away a die and reroll to fulfill the needed dice is intense.

So if each stunt card has one or two custom dice symbols on it, then you have to match those to succeed. Some stunts might require distance, others finesse or whatnot. There could be a

You could have the option of sacrificing a meeple to get a reroll without removing a die. Or maybe a use a meeply to add a die. That gives you leverage at a cost for future stunts. Conceptually... like Evel Kneivel... will jump the grand canyon.. Yay... using a rocket.. Boo... he made it... Yay... but look there is a parachute... Boo...

If in a round you deplete your hand and everyone has a chance to do a stunt, then you could have some stunts face up on the board and each person adds a face-up stunt to their hand before they perform. That gives extra stakes to winning the first bid.

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