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Possible Effects

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questccg
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Joined: 04/16/2011

Hi all,

I am having difficulties with possible *Effects* for my latest game. I am trying to get an exhaustive list of what would be the possible effects. Okay, so let me describe what is in the game and then maybe some of you can help me in determining the possible effects...

-So we have 5 d6s of different colors (Green, Blue, Red, White and Black). These dice are Mana dice. So I would guess that there could be +/- a color (Ex: +2 Green Mana this turn [Instant], +2 Green Mana for X turns [Relic]) with a maximum value of 6.

-Next we have 5 d12s of different colors (Same). These dice are Battle dice. Again, I would guess that there could be +/- a color (Ex: +3 Blue Battle this turn [Instant], +3 Blue Battle for X turns [Relic]) with a maximum value of 12.

-There are 5 *Stacks*. Basically like 5 lines, you can only attack the topmost card in a stack. The card on the bottom can be in one of the Victory slots (again 5 of those). Only 1 players can be in the Victory slot of a stack. A player wins by controlling all 5 Victory slots with each 1 of the colors (Green, Blue, Red, White and Black).

Rules to stacks are simple: cards can move 1 position up or down a stack. If moving 1 position left or right (outside a stack), a card goes on to the top of a stack. Moving 1 position costs 2 Mana points (as per the card).

2 effects could be move to any position in a stack (including a Victory slot) and swap positions with another card (excluding a Victory slot) [Enchantments].

-Drawing a card from your Draw pile costs 3 Mana points (any 3 colors). I guess another effect could be lowering the cost to 2 colors instead of 3.

-Conjuring a follower (unit card) costs 3 Mana points (specific). Another effect could be lowering the cost to 2 colors instead of 3.

-Each follower (unit card) has a Power (1-5). When the Power = 0, the follower dies. Another effect could be +/- 1 Power.

-Each Player has 20 Life Points. +/- X Life Points could be another effect.

-Each Player has a Deck, Hand and Graveyard. More effects could be discard or draw cards from these (Ex: topmost graveyard card goes into your deck).

I think this covers all the aspects of the game. I know this is *difficult* to HELP ME because you need to have a good handle on the game and what is in it... I have tried to describe *most* of the elements of the game and the *effects* I can think up.

Thanks for any input/help you can give!

MikeyNg
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Joined: 07/12/2012
I have some questions

I have some questions first:
Why is Life important? If your victory condition is to control all 5 Victory slots, what purpose does life fulfill? (or can either running your opponent out of life or controlling all 5 lead to victory?)
What happens if on an opening turn, a player gets lucky and rolls themselves like 25 mana? Is there a smoothing mechanism in place so that players can't get lucky and wind up too far ahead (or behind) their opponent?

Some other ideas for effects:
Don't forget symmetry/asymmetry also.
You can affect the cost for drawing - cheapen it for you, make it more expensive for your opponent, do both (at a greater cost), make it cheaper for both players (at a cheaper cost than the first two)
Trade life for cards or mana (watch out for these as far as balance issues)

Combat "tricks":
M:tG has "First Strike" which means that creatures with First Strike attack first, and if fatal damage is dealt, that attacker wouldn't even take reciprocal damage from the defender.
It also has "Defender" which means that the creature simply can't attack (cheaper)
There are also evasion modifiers, such as Flying. (Creatures with Flying can fly over other creatures and not be defended)

Making creatures untargetable by your opponent's or all effects might be possible also.

Mana fixing - maybe make it so that I can "trade" 2 blue mana for 1 mana of any type. Or two of any type for 1 green, etc. Be VERY careful with this one though, since half of your game appears to be rolling dice for mana, and this will sidestep a good portion of that.

You need to establish a good "rule of thumb" for the relative conversion rates between your resources. M:tG has a "4 mana = 1 card = 1 life" guideline that it mostly follows.

questccg
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Joined: 04/16/2011
Answers and more

MikeyNg wrote:
I have some questions first:
Why is Life important? If your victory condition is to control all 5 Victory slots, what purpose does life fulfill? (or can either running your opponent out of life or controlling all 5 lead to victory?)

Like you said, there are 2 paths to victory: either you control all 5 Victory slots (with different colors) or you kill your opponent. I am thinking about having an EASY game which is simply control 5 Victory slots and a ADVANCED game which is control all 5 Victory slots with ALL 5 colors. I feel controlling with all 5 colors is a difficult task (but possible)...

MikeyNg wrote:
What happens if on an opening turn, a player gets lucky and rolls themselves like 25 mana? Is there a smoothing mechanism in place so that players can't get lucky and wind up too far ahead (or behind) their opponent?

So with a maximum value of *30* (6x5) is the best roll. It is rather unlikely but possible. What happens is that you can spend your *Mana Points (MPs)* the way you like:

-Draw a card from your deck (3 MPs of different colors: Blue-Red-Black as an example). So you would probably be able to draw 2 or 3 cards. You can have a maximum of 8 cards in your hand at the end of your turn. You discard cards to the middle of your deck.
-Move a card (any 2 out of 3 MPs). So you could move a few cards also on such a roll. Maybe position 2 or 3 cards also...
-Battling cost 1 specific MP and your can choose your attack (So let us say your unit is Green, and it is a level 3 unit, you can probably spend 2 or 3 Green MPs to attack).
-Conjuring a unit (Follower) costs 3 MPs (exact).
-Playing an Enchantment (like a Trap card in Yu-Gi-Oh!) costs 2 out of 3 MPs.

It stands to reason, if you battle with POWERFUL (like level 4 or 5) units, you will limit how much you can do on your turn with your mana. BUT you will probably be more likely to win the battle since you get more dice to attack with.

MikeyNg wrote:
Some other ideas for effects:
Don't forget symmetry/asymmetry also.
You can affect the cost for drawing - cheapen it for you, make it more expensive for your opponent, do both (at a greater cost), make it cheaper for both players (at a cheaper cost than the first two).

This could be good for Relics.

MikeyNg wrote:
Trade life for cards or mana (watch out for these as far as balance issues).

I an still unsure about how *Life Points (LPs)* will go... For example, if you attack and roll 3 dice and you win all 3 rolls. You opponent only wins 1 roll. This would mean that you have 2 rolls better than him. My idea is the first one is used for the battle and the 2nd one reduces the opponents LPs by 1. In addition there are effect cards that can lower your LPs by 3 points (for example).

MikeyNg wrote:
Combat "tricks":
M:tG has "First Strike" which means that creatures with First Strike attack first, and if fatal damage is dealt, that attacker wouldn't even take reciprocal damage from the defender.
It also has "Defender" which means that the creature simply can't attack (cheaper)
There are also evasion modifiers, such as Flying. (Creatures with Flying can fly over other creatures and not be defended)

FLYING would complicate the game... because cards are in a stack. TOPMOST cards can do battle... Making it possible to attack another unit in the stack is not very practical (need to move cards and counters, etc.)

DEFENDER could be an Enchantment card which can give a unit +1 POWER (Think life). So a level 1 unit with 1 Power could gain an extra +1 POWER (2 Power) and can live a little longer.

FIRST STRIKE: not sure I can implement this. Combat is based on the ATTACK of a unit (which requires Mana Points). Combat is resolved by COMPARING which player wins the MOST rolls. So if "Player 1" wins 3 rolls and "Player 2" wins only 2 rolls, "Player 1" wins by 1 roll and there is no LP deduction.

MikeyNg wrote:
Making creatures untargetable by your opponent's or all effects might be possible also.

Yes, I have thought of one card which is an Enchantment: Wall of Fire. Requires a Red unit to attack. Sort of untargetable... But I understand what you mean... sort of like a Protection from effect cards...

MikeyNg wrote:
Mana fixing - maybe make it so that I can "trade" 2 blue mana for 1 mana of any type. Or two of any type for 1 green, etc. Be VERY careful with this one though, since half of your game appears to be rolling dice for mana, and this will sidestep a good portion of that.

Did not think of being able to TRADE mana for another type of mana... Would need to experiment with this during playtesting. I think this could be good - especially if you roll a big number for a mana you are not going to use on your turn... This might be a GREAT Relic: one that allows you to CONVERT MPs (maybe as your 2nd suggestion which is Trade 2 of any type for 1 green)...

MikeyNg wrote:
You need to establish a good "rule of thumb" for the relative conversion rates between your resources. M:tG has a "4 mana = 1 card = 1 life" guideline that it mostly follows.

Not sure I understand this. How does this work???

MikeyNg
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Joined: 07/12/2012
guideline

the 4 mana = 1 card = 1 life rule of thumb is what it appears M:tG's designers use whenever they want to make a card that does resource shifting, such as this.

So there may be a Relic (to use your term) where you pay 1 life and draw 1 card. You also might be limited to doing that once per round. Or you pay 4 mana to draw a card.

Actually, now that I think about it, life and mana don't relate very well at all. M:tG had a spell called "Channel" that would let you sacrifice 1 life for 1 mana, with no limits. Unfortunately, you could combo it with another spell or two to make some turn 1 wins. (In your game, it would be rolling the dice, casting "Channel", paying 49 life, then casting a spell that uses 49+___ mana to deal an equivalent amount of damage. Game over.)

So be careful with resource redistribution by imposing limits, is what I recommend. Players are crafty!

As far as combat:
Have you thought of being able to augment the dice? An effect might be "+1 to any battle die of your choosing" (limited to this round maybe or as a static always-on effect). You could also affect certain color battle dice if you wanted also, maybe. (I don't remember how your colors work thematically)

would it also make sense to LIMIT battle dice being rolled, or somehow make it more expensive to roll battle dice. So maybe an effect would be that all red battle dice now cost an extra mana or something.

or maybe players can "pitch" (discard) cards to affect battle dice or sacrifice creatures to affect battle dice. So a creature might have "Sacrifice me: Add 3 to a battle die" I think that might work for your white color. (And gives your Power 1 creatures something pretty dang useful)

"All other ___ creatures get +1 power" ___ can be a color or type

Really - you have a hundred different levers to pull. It almost sounds like you could have too many! :) Just be creative and not set yourself to any limits right now. The limits will come out when you balance, since it sounds like it might be easy to "break" the game. But think about every action that gets done in your game and then see how you can augment it or change it with something else. It sounds like you've established the base rules as to how the game works. Now you get to break them. :)

If you REALLY wanted to utterly flip things, why not exchange battle dice and mana dice? (Mind blown)

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