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Set Distribution

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Fhizban
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Joined: 01/11/2009

hey all,
just a quick question about set distribution in a customizable cardgame. its not collectible but players can buy several boxes to get enough copies to be able to put the maximum allowed amount of card copies in their decks. what do you think is the fairest distribution for players who build on a budget, but still want to get the maximum number of allowed copies?

* The set size is 50 different cards
* Each player is allowed to put 3 copies of a card into his deck.

A.
A 50 card starter with all 50 cards, one copy of each.
This means, every player has to buy 3 starters to get the maximum number of copies he is allowed to include in his deck.

B.
A 75 card starter with just 25 of the available cards, three copies each. This set comes in two flavors, the first one includes cards 1-25 the second one cards 26-50.
It allows a player to include the maximum amount of copies right away, but he only has access to a limited pool of the available cards. In order to get all cards, he has to buy 2 starters.

C.
A 150 card starter, includes all 50 cards, with three copies each.
The player gets all cards and the maximum allowes number of copies with the first set. This way, he has to buy only one set.

D.
A combination of the above, but with double content - providing enough cards for two players (example: a 300 card starter, including all 50 cards with six copies each. enough to provide both players with all cards a 3 copies each).

Or any combination of the above (including more/less cards and/or more/less copies of each card). i hope you get my point. thanks for any feedback!

JaffetC
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Joined: 09/19/2011
Starter set / Base Set Separate.

Starter Set should have a 2 player starter with Starter Exclusive cards. The Base set you could do a 1x of each and let the player buy the amount they want, and a Complete Base Set with CB exclusives.

make it worth it to the players.

Thats actually how I am doing it for Livid Visage. Base set is 60 cards, or buy a complete with Alternate print cards + Dividers and all that, or the Two player starter deck that has 8 cards exclusively for the 2 player starter.

the goal is for budget players to have complete access to all the cards and build the deck that *They* want to play. :)

Fhizban
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Joined: 01/11/2009
thanks for the reply JaffetC

thanks for the reply JaffetC

i absolutely get your point, its just that i can't put the maximum number of allowed copies into the starter or it would get too big/expensive, so i have to break it down. but your idea of a "deluxe set" is good. right now i am aiming for this approach:

there is a 90 card starter containing 2 preconstructed player decks with 30 cards each - plus 30 extra cards for the players to share and exchange.

so the game is perfectly playable out of the box (assuming 2 players only)

but, the rules theoretically allow to include even more cards/copies in a deck. as the game is competitive/tournament style - i could imagine that some players get a starter on their own.

i want the game to be playable using 1 starter for 2 players, but to get the maximum out of it, you need 1 starter per player. this means you must buy 1 - but can opt to buy 2.

im still thinking about making the starter bigger/smaller and how to design the expansions...

SlyBlu7
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Joined: 03/15/2012
I'm new here, but I'd like to

I'm new here, but I'd like to help (no more complaints about Ephemerids, lol).
The game that I'm planning sounds somewhat similar to this - players customize a deck of cards to represent the options that will become available to their character. Decks are expected to be around 65 cards in total, with up to 3 duplicates of each card.

Each character class was going to be released as 2 decks - one was the 'major' build, and would feature a 2:1 ratio of cards that were "essential" to that major build and cards that were just "there" for testing out. This means that they are getting a less-than-ideal deck to start off with, but give a preview of what you could get in the next pack. That next pack of cards was going to be the 'prestige' build, which would have the same ratio of the other half of the cards. So if you wanted to have a full 3 copies of any card in the deck, you had to buy that second pack to complete the character's collection.

The original release is going to be the starter box with the rules and the 4 main classes, with enough cards to represent their major builds, and then 4 additional, separate packs that players can buy to fill out their chosen class for a very reduced cost ($15 starter, $5 booster).
Following expansions would feature the 2:1 starter decks for new classes in the expansion, new rules for said expansion, and then new 'prestige' decks for each of those new classes.

JaffetC
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Joined: 09/19/2011
For the starter what i mean

For the starter what i mean is that the decks are small in terms of the amount of "different" cards from the set.

So you have a 50 card set. In order to make a 40 card deck, you would need 4 copies of 10 different cards. So really they are only playing with 1/5th of the total set. That makes it so that if they want the remaining 4/5'ths they can buy the sets individually or as a full on delux and keep the starter decks off to the side. That is also what I ment by "starter exclusive". Each starter will have 5-10 lets say cards that are not part of the stand alone set. Making it a "must" buy in order to have *all* of the cards.

Again, I do not know how you would play your game or how big the decks are in the game. For Livid Visage we are producing 2, 40 card decks for $20 dollars. 1 deck uses 8 cards from the base set and 2 cards produced specifically for it. The second Deck has 6 New cards and 4 cards from the base set. So a total of about 8 cards will be spoiled from the base set and 8 new cards will be put in this product only.

hope this clears up a bit of what i meant about the starters.

Fhizban wrote:
thanks for the reply JaffetC

i absolutely get your point, its just that i can't put the maximum number of allowed copies into the starter or it would get too big/expensive, so i have to break it down. but your idea of a "deluxe set" is good. right now i am aiming for this approach:

there is a 90 card starter containing 2 preconstructed player decks with 30 cards each - plus 30 extra cards for the players to share and exchange.

so the game is perfectly playable out of the box (assuming 2 players only)

but, the rules theoretically allow to include even more cards/copies in a deck. as the game is competitive/tournament style - i could imagine that some players get a starter on their own.

i want the game to be playable using 1 starter for 2 players, but to get the maximum out of it, you need 1 starter per player. this means you must buy 1 - but can opt to buy 2.

im still thinking about making the starter bigger/smaller and how to design the expansions...

Crensh3000ad
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Joined: 03/06/2012
Avoid splitting the game

Hello Fhizban,

here are some notions that stem from my parsimoniously greedy customer mind:

I prefer the idea of buying a complete game. If it does come from the LCG corner I would prefer buying it as a complete package, not as different starters "A", "B" and "C". In my eyes, there should be no exclusive starter contents, especially no "starter A only" cards. Yeah, I get it, the publisher wants me to buy his entire line of products, fine. Then - why don't they put all starters into one single basic kit which I would buy anway (if I like the game)? I don't get the idea behind buying 1/3 or 1/4 of the game so I get forced into chasing after certain starter decks which might be sold out already, because of their cool package art ("Protoss" instead of"Zerg") or some unnecessary crap like that.

Basically, I would suggest two possibilities for your packaging :

1.) the complete 150 card-set with 3 copies of each card, also giving you the maximum amount of permitted cards in a single deck. This should satisfy a player AND a collector.

2.) an introductory 2-player-set with two playable decks, in which every deck contains only one single copy of a given card and some other stuff like rulebook, dice, playmat, tokens, etc. This avoids the problem of getting too many multiple copies of any given card beyond the permitted deck-limit, if you decide to purchase your complete set of cards. If your standard playing deck is 30 cards only, then, maybe, you can cut it down to two tiny 10/15-card versions for the intro deck or so.

Thus, if I want to get an introduction to the game, I buy the 2-player-set and duke it out with a friend. If I want to upgrade, I get myself a complete set.

Do you already have a limitation for the number of cards in a single deck package ?

Generally speaking:
I do not want to disgruntle anybody, but as soon as I see a game which components come in dozens of different packages, it seriously has the chance of shooing me away. Since I got away from all that CCG-random-packaging bullshit, I prefer clear and non-fiddly solutions like basic game - expansion a - expansion b - expansion c, not basic game consisting of part a - part b - part c - part d. I simply don't like all this Blue Moon stuff in which you get gazillions of of different races in different packages. Just my 2 cents.

Fhizban
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Joined: 01/11/2009
crensh, thanks for the

crensh,

thanks for the feedback, its basically just my thoughts anyway

the reason not to go with differently distributed packages is clear. i also dont want to go this route, but the game has to have some expansion ability - so i want to introduce further card sets later on.

all in all it should be something like: buy 1 and you are fine, when a new set comes out you can decide yourself if you want it or not. you can still play with the base set / previous sets and are not forced to jump the bandwagon.

but, there has to be a limit how big a set can be. this is a cost issue, i just cannot afford making a 500 card base set. it would be too expensive and would scare potential new players away.

so, here has to be a middle way. non-collectible, fixed sets with a reasonable size and content. to be expanded with follow-up sets that enhance gameplay, but are not required.

SlyBlu7
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Joined: 03/15/2012
I look at it like 'Death

I look at it like 'Death Angel', a game that my pals and I play almost religiously (huge GW nerds, can't help it, it passes time between tournament rounds). When you buy the starter you get everything that you need to play the game - 4 squads of Marines, full sets of Order Cards, everything. Only later did we find out that there were tiny (like, 20 card) expansion packs for the game. One pack provided you 2/3 new squads of Marines and their Order cards. The other expansion gave you more Enemies and Missions.
You could easily pop the game out and play it right away, without any problem at all, and without every buying another box. Or you could go off the deep end and buy up all the expansions like we have.

Just make sure that you provide enough cards in the "starter" that people don't feel like they're being cheated. Give them a full game. They're obviously going to look at some cards and ask "why aren't there 3 of these in deck, they're awesome!" and that's when you offer the expansions to fill out the rest of their deck.

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