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Variable game length

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jwarrend
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Joined: 08/03/2008

We had an interesting occurrence in a playtest of my civ-building game the other night. The game lasts between 36 and 42 rounds, with a die roll at the end of each round determining whether the game ends or continues for (at least) one more round.

In our game, in the 36th round, a battle weakened my hold on one of my key territories. Had the game lasted another round, one player would have swooped in, taken control of the territory, and prevented me from scoring the points from the territory, and giving him the game. But, the die roll at the end of the 36th round ended the game, and I ended up winning.

I have been thinking about this from the perspective of what players might say about the game's random ending condition. I think there are two different schools of thought. On the one hand, someone could make the case that the random die roll decided the game; if it had been X, the other player would have won, but since it was Y, I ended up winning. Such a view might perceive this aspect of the game to be a flaw, because it lets the outcome of the game hang on something that is out of the players' control and is not known at the start of the game. On the other hand, it could be claimed that players do know for certain that they will get 36 actions, and can't and shouldn't count on more actions than that. Thus, leaving anything undone after the 36th round incurs risk. This view sees the emphasis placed on contigency planning, and requires players to cover their bases but have a plan for how to make extra points should extra actions be available, or perhaps even bank on the extra actions but accept the risk that this brings.

Personally, I find that the uncertain game ending is a big part of the enjoyment of the game for me and so I tend to view the game from the latter perspective. But I don't think the former perspective is entirely wrong, either -- it really comes down to a matter of taste. I also suspect that one's preferences may be influenced by the scope of the game that one is playing. I don't think anyone minds a healthy dose of randomness in a 20 minute game, but in a 3 hour game like this, I expect there will be some that will be very vocal in their disapproval of it. What I am uncertain of is whether there will be a significant quantity of players who actually prefer this feature, or whether my own preferences come through too strongly.

(I suppose that for players who are really unhappy with the variable ending, I could just add in a variant that brings the game to a hard ending at 36 actions. This certainly wouldn't break the game).

I just found it interesting as a case where there isn't a "right" or "wrong" answer from a design standpoint -- it's highly subjective. I welcome thoughts from others on experiences they've had with variable game lengths or game design issues where a mechanic was (or could potentially be) liked by some and loathed by others.

SiddGames
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Joined: 08/02/2008
Personally, I'm in your camp

Personally, I'm in your camp of thought on this. My first play of Paths of Glory, for example, we played just the limited war, which ends after 10 turns. PoG has supply rules in which units cut off suffer if they don't regain supply the next turn. Well, I was marginally in the lead going into the bottom of turn 10 when my opponent rushed several units around the end of my front line and captured a couple VP locations to give him the win. This was totally unrealistic because if we were playing a longer version of the game, those units would have been out of supply and easily destroyed the next turn. That was a very gamey action to win the game.

Combat Commander: Europe uses the variable end. There is a turn track and a turn marker on it and once it reaches a certain point, a 2d6 roll is made at the end of each turn to see if the game ends or not. The target number is printed on the turn track and the odds increase with each subsequent turn. This type of rule strongly discourages gamey tactics like what I experienced in PoG because you can't count on the game ending after doing something like that.

Mr.K
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Joined: 07/01/2009
I too agree with you, for the

I too agree with you, for the same reason. This idea has already been implemented in the very successful Starcraft. The event deck has three "The End Draws Near" cards in the final section of the deck. When two of these have been drawn the game ends.
This means that's the game may end at the start of the end game or right at the end and the players will simply have to take that into account.
However, it seems to differ from your idea where it is relatively rare for the game to end in such a way. Instead other victory conditions are usually met. In this way that randomness is dampened. However, I see no flaw in your idea, only two perspectives.
It is the same as any game involving dice "if only I rolled this I would've won the battle and then this battle and then if this happened...".

bnordeng
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Joined: 07/01/2009
jwarrend wrote:I welcome

jwarrend wrote:
I welcome thoughts from others on experiences they've had with variable game lengths or game design issues where a mechanic was (or could potentially be) liked by some and loathed by others.

I think just about every game has a mechanic that is liked by some and loathed by others. That's just the nature of it all.

I like variable game end conditions. In a game that takes more than an hour though, I am going to want it to be "less variable." In other words, if after 3 hours of building up my civilization the whole end of the game is determined by just rolling a certain number on a die, that wouldn't work for me. I'm not sure how your die roll mechanic works. For example, if the game ended during round 36 with a roll of 1 on a d6 and ended in round 37 with a roll of 1 or 2 on a d6 and ended in round 38 with a roll of 1, 2 or 3 on a d6... I would like this better. In that scenario, I can weigh the odds of the game ending and what I can do to put myself in the best position to win.

I like how Knizia did it in the game Palazzo. In case you haven't played that game, there are 3 separate stacks of tiles labeled I, II, III. Once you are through the I stack, you start on the II stack. In the III stack, there are 5 tiles that piece together to make a picture of a horse. Once all 5 tiles come out, the game is over immediately. Every turn where tiles are drawn, just the top two tiles are taken. So, I feel like I am getting some clues about when the game may end but the actual ending is still variable.

Those are my 2 cents.

Xane
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Joined: 03/04/2009
Mr.K wrote:I too agree with

Mr.K wrote:
I too agree with you, for the same reason. This idea has already been implemented in the very successful Starcraft. The event deck has three "The End Draws Near" cards in the final section of the deck. When two of these have been drawn the game ends.
This means that's the game may end at the start of the end game or right at the end and the players will simply have to take that into account.
However, it seems to differ from your idea where it is relatively rare for the game to end in such a way. Instead other victory conditions are usually met. In this way that randomness is dampened. However, I see no flaw in your idea, only two perspectives.
It is the same as any game involving dice "if only I rolled this I would've won the battle and then this battle and then if this happened...".

But with starcraft, the players need to do some sort of action to draw an event card. Players have control over the end of the game in that sense.

irdesigns510
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Joined: 06/24/2009
warhammer 40k

I kinda like how warhammer 40k does it.

The might say a game ends on a roll of 6+ (on a d6)
next round 5+
next round 4+
and so on.

I like how it inclines each round, giving players an amount of urgency, yet the game does end. (in some games you might say "finally!")

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