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Combat/Micro managing issues

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Tbone
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Hello board game community!

I've recently, in the past few years, got into board game creation. Many of my projects are underway and I usually take breaks from them and work on something new-- allowing fresh new ideas to flow and generate while I work on other things.

I am currently working on my game called Imperial Battle: an RTS type game.

The game is split into two types of turns Macro/domestic turns and micro/field turns.

The domestic turns are played seperately by each player where they all pick from all identical decks of 130 cards(each player has their own deck). Each of these cards have different options on them: resources, research points, unit stats, action points etc. which the player will choose the pile the card will go into. Once it is in the pile the player can only use that card for that certain option... Then you can buy buildings units and upgrades after your cards have been put down...This part of the game is fairly balanced and solid.

The field turn is when turns are administered and the players start to move and micro manage their army through a number of different options:
Attacking, moving, using abilities, adding attack points, adding defense points, activating cards, and defending cards.

Let me explain...

On your domestic turn, one of the options allows you to use equipment to allow cards on the field. The field in front of you consists of five territories. These are where you put your buildings. Each territory has a specific building that goes there. These buildings will essentially give you more options to use on the cards, where in the beginning a lot of options cannot be used yet.

Base: use of materials
Barracks: use of equipment and attack points
Supply: more cards able to be picked up
Research: allows research points to upgrade buildings
Lab: use of defense points and unit abilities

Beyond the territories is the field. The first row is the defensive row where you are to put your cards first when allowing them on the field (in any territory you chose). Beyond that is no mans land where you can put your cards and the enemy can put their cards.

Now. Before you get really confused here is what it looks like

N=no mans land. D=defensive position T= territory

N N N N N
D D D D D
T T T T T

This will be mirrored by the other player.

BASIC FIELD MEXHANICS:
-Units can move forward, backward, and even from territory to territory.
-units can only kill units in front of them
-when moving from your no mans land to the enemies, you must stay in the same territory (Your Lab territory, to the enemies lab
BASIC UNIT MECHANICS:
-if the attack of a unit meets or exceeds the health of another it kills the card (both attack and health are fixed numbers on the card)
-using defensive points subtracts from enemy attack value (defense is also a fixed value on the card)
-moving, attacking, using abilities, adding defense and attack points to cards etc. cost an action points

After this it gets fuzzy...
I don't know how to make combat strategically fun and enjoyable without it being very complicated and so these mechanics are the bare minimum for minor managing your army.

I NEED IDEAS.

Thanks.

X3M
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Joined: 10/28/2013
Statistics: Why defence

Statistics:
Why defence points and health points?
It sounds to me like they could simply be added up and then be compared to the damage.
The only 2 logical answers that comes up in my head are: There are units that have more then 1 bullet to shoot? Units are allowed to team up?
In those cases, the defence points are subtracted multiple times. Or else there is no value in having 2 statistics.
If you want to know how strong your unit really is according to math, please ask me. That system that you are using, plus the things that I have described here, I played a certain combat card game in the same way years ago.

1 combat (my war game, maybe you see something useful):
In my combat, the combat itself costs 1 action point. The defender has to pay 1 too if he/she wants to defend. All units are allowed to only shoot once their bullets. Some units are allowed to fire sooner then other units, which are sub turns. During the battling, each player is allowed to throw in "usable" Event Cards at any time (RTS aspect inside the sub turns). Players are also allowed to "help" their enemy with an Event Card. And if there are more players, they too can meddle in with Event Cards.
Anyway, my units are allowed to:
- team up naturally (big units can die now),
- to hide behind each other (walls have use now, the unit requires minimal range, multiple lines are allowed, it can be done only once each battle),
- and the damage remains (big units eventually die, healing and repairing is useful)

Event Cards:
Some of the cards that I thought of could aid you as well, although I don't know exactly how and when you use your cards precisely. Mine could be used any time unless the card tells the restrictions.
Here is a copy of my cards manual, modified a bit to your tastes:
3 Backdoor
The selected squad may only attack the last line instead of the front line. This card must be played after deciding the lines, but before the dice have started rolling by both players. All units are selected for this.
4 Flank
The selected squad may attack 1 other line of choice instead of the front line. This card must be played after deciding the lines, but before the combat takes place. All units are selected for this.
5 Backdoor Advanced
The selected squad may attack the first and the last line. This means that some units attack the back and some units attack the front line. This card must be played after deciding the lines, but before the dice have started rolling by both players. All units are selected for this.
6 Flank Advanced
The selected squad may attack the first and 1 other line. This means that some units attack 1 other line of choice and some units attack the front line. This card must be played after deciding the lines, but before the combat takes place. All units are selected for this.
7 Surrounded
The selected squad may attack any line, all at the same time. All units are selected for this.
8 Surprise
The selected squad may fire all their projectiles, from all ranges, before the enemy may return fire. Less units may be selected for this.
16 Health Permanent
The selected unit has 1 more amount of armor added to its amount of maximum health for the entire game. This card may be played any time, especially when the unit is about to die by incoming projectiles. Place a Health Permanent on this unit and place the card back under in the deck.
17 Damage Permanent
The selected unit has increased projectile effectiveness for the entire game.
Place a specific Damage Permanent on this unit and place the card back under in the deck. You can only increase 1 Damage type. (I have multiple weapon systems, like mammoth tanks)
18 Projectile Permanent
The selected unit has 1 more multiplier for the entire game. Best used on units with multipliers of 1, which effectively doubles the damage. If an unit has more damage types, then each type increases with 1 extra Projectile. Not to be used on units without damage. Place a Projectile Permanent on this unit and place the card back under in the deck.

Some "strategic" stuff with eXperience Points:
Due to various reasons, I have left out the XP part until the end of the battle, where players are allowed to distribute the total XP amongst the living units. This goes way faster, and all XP can be kept. If it where during battle, players needed to keep trace of which unit gets the XP and once placed, it could probably be removed with that dying unit again.
If one player is evil, he/she would simply attack from another region while the defending player has "tapped" his army by placing the used action point on top of that region.

Tbone
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Yes I do remember reading

Yes I do remember reading about your game! And to an extent it seems somewhat similar in mechanics.

Eventually in my game you are allowed the increase the amount of cards you can have in each squad or space (starting at one card and you can have up to four when you have upgraded fully).

The way right now you are allowed to attack is by giving a card an attack point for a turn and then if an enemy card is in front of you you can use an action to use your attack (you may only attack a unit if you Attack points add up to over the other cards' Health)

The way you defend is when an enemy uses a turn to attack you, if a card in that squad has a defense card, you can use an action to defend with the defensive value on the card and subtract from the enemies attack. Health is always there and there are no "health points".

Defense points and attack points are put under cards and used with an action. Cards cannot use the defense or attack if they do not have a card under them or the actions to use them

Also, when you first put a card on the field, it is face down (deactivated), to create a fog of war type effect. A card cannot affect any card while deactivated but can still move. You can use one action to activate the card and three actions to activate an enemy card.

These are the scenarios I have for a given turn:

SENARIO 1: Limited Turn (used only once per turn): Attacking, using abilities, adding attack points, adding defense points.

SENARIO 2: Unlimited Turn (used as many times during a turn): Moving, activating cards

SENARIO 3: Counter Turn (when it isn't your turn): Defend

SENARIO 4: Extra Turn (buying an extra Limited turn): 4 actions (this can be brought down in price when the Base is upgrade)

Even with this I am not completely satisfied with combat.

X3M
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So your units, need to get

So your units, need to get extra cards for having armor?

And do you have differences in unit strength? Meaning, that some units are indeed stronger than others when all stats are added up? Which makes it harder to balance.

By the way how I read your action spending. It seems the battle between units is always 1 on 1. Is that true?

Perhaps, you should rethink your combat from scratch. (it helped for me) If you are going to copy RTS in this matter as well. I suggest that you play different RTS games.
Your combat reminds me of Warcraft 2 with only the basic units. Although, you only have 1 type of damage, Warcraft 2 has piercing and basic damage. Perhaps by looking at how battles go in Warcraft2, you might get some new idea's. Starcraft 2 also has some sort of system that looks like your system.

You also could add some sort of first strike or dual strike on your units.

Could you give some examples of battles? Like how it goes now? That could give clearer vision.
Telling what is on the field, what players have in their hands and explaining each step that occurs.
1 where 1 player wins, and 1 where both players end up in a tie (dying or not)

What kind of strategy/tactics are possible now?
And what kind of strategy/tactics would you like to add?

Tbone
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Unit strength: there are four

Unit strength: there are four levels of units and five types

Level one (units):
Scout (infantry)
Motorcycle (Land)
Drone (air)
Jetski (sea)
Wall (defensive buildings)

Level two:
Sniper
Jeep
Helicopter
Cruiser
Watch Tower

Level three:
Spec Ops
Tank
Jet
Aircraft Carrier
Turret

Level four:
Spy
Artillery
Bomber
Destroyer
Bunker

Now... You don't upgrade a motorcycle into a jeep, the level of the unit simply means a more powerful unit of that type. And of course, higher units are more expensive and harder to get than lower level cards (less abundant in the deck)

Each type of unit has an overall ability:
Infantry: gets discard when it dies instead of going into the fallen pile (where killed cards go and can't be used again-- you will also put ten random cards here every time you go through your deck)

Land: +2 AT towards buildings

Air: able to move forward without an action

Sea: able to move from territory to territory without an action

Defensive Buildings: Unkown

These allow for each type of unit to feel more unique than just different stats and abilities

As I said there are two types of turns. The Domesti turn allows you to buy upgrades, buildings, put units on the field etc. preparing you in a Macro type way.

Here are the types of piles you have to put cards in...

Materials: used to buy buildings
Equipment: used to but units
Research: used to buy upgrades for buildings
Lab: used to buy abilities
Action: used when buying, moving, attacking, etc.
Attack: used to put under units allowing them to attack
Defense: used to put under cards allowing them to defend
Storage: allows you save cards to put in piles later on(also the pile you buy your units from)

Ok...

Starting the field turn, the person with the most actions go first (Field turns start when the first unit is bought and put on the field). Players will take turns moving units and can use attacks when in front of each other. Yes, it is one on one where a scout attacks only one scout but there can be other cards in that squad to kill. The cards that are in your "hand" or cards you can use are action, attack, defense, and lab piles essentially.

The thing here is your units are able to attack more with more attack points under it, but they are a bigger target because if they die all of the cards with it will go in the fallen pile (unless it is an infantry unit).

Strategies like protecting units with more attack points or spreading out your attacks to many units so if you lose a unit it isn't such loss as compared to a card with more attack capabilities (cards).

I hope I answered most of the questions let me know if there is anything else you need to know. I've stripped away and started again about four times before and the mechanics keep getting stuck...

Thanks!

Tbone
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Addition

Here's a reply to how a battle would work:

Field turn
-Player one has three actions
+player two has five actions
>player two goes first

+player two moves his scout from his lab territory to his base territory for two actions (two territories away from the lab)
-player one moves his drone forward in the base territory, now in player twos no mans land (right in front of the scout)
*note these cards aren't active and are face down*

+player two passes (when you pass the next time it is your turn the round ends and you go back to the domestic turn)
-player one reveals player twos card for three actions

>End of round

Tbone
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Here's a battle where a

Here's a battle where a player actually wins:

-player one has eight actions
+player two has five actions
>player one goes first

-player one adds an attack point to his scout for an action which is in front of player twos "unknown"(deactivated) card
+player two moves his scout with his other scout (assuming you have upgraded allowing two cards on one space) which is in front of player twos scout (which is deactivated)

-player one activates his card for an action
+player two puts an attack point under one of his scouts

-player one activates the enemy scout with no attack points for three actions
+player two passes

-player one use an action to use his attack point to kill player twos scout
(Scout stats: AT: 1 DE: 1 HE: 1)
>The attack of player ones scout equals the health of player twos scout, it was a successful kill
>round over

X3M
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Well, it starts making sense

Well, it starts making sense now.
The cards keep in position. You are not doing a new battle over and over.
With the 3 by 5 field. You have some sort of 15 regions where cards could be.
The battle does not really sound fast to me. I don't think that big battles with a lot of actions can't be done within 15 seconds.

Adding that one extra attack power gives that scout an edge over the enemy scout.
There is indeed not much strategy in this. Except using the best of the best.

If you want to have more tactics, perhaps giving each card, 1 strong point and 1 weak point. For example, Sniper has +1 to infantry, but it has to get -1 against something else. Like air?
You could also add +2 to infantry, then -2 or 2 times -1 from other types. As long as you keep balance. Although, you also need to keep watch that one of your cards doesn't get overkill. Unless, the enemy scout has so much armor, that you have no choice but use a sniper.
This way, you place certain units into battle in a later stage of the game. Not needed at first, but certain needed later on. Also ads to strategy.

Tbone
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Yeah... I think that is the

Yeah... I think that is the biggest weakness of the micro play... It's all based on how well your Macro is played.

What I want the game to posses:
Big battles
Strong strategic combat
Balanced moves
A strong connection between macro and micro managing

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