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Melee/Ranged/Magic accuracy vs target, question

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devaloki
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Hi all,

I had another thread concerning this in the past, but it was only concerning one aspect of it. In that other thread, I was wondering whether or not the accuracy of a character should be separate from their evasion rate. Keep in mind, the combat in my game I am aiming for it to be similar to a turn based rpg, similar to like a mix between tabletop ones (that aren't too complex/crunchy), gamebooks, and video game jrpgs from ps2 time. I decided to keep accuracy separate from whatever governs evasion rate, but I'm not sure on whether it should be a stat that governs accuracy, the weapon/item/magic itself, or a mix of the two. I'm aiming toward a mix though, but I'm curious to know your thoughts on it.

Each stat in my game would range from 1-6 (1 lowest, 6 highest). Characters start with each stat between 1-3. You can raise a stat by up to +2 (e.g. a character with a starting stat of 1 in magic can only level it up to 3, to get it higher than that requires boosting through other means than levelling up) through "levelling " up during the game (more of a point buy system than traditional levelling up system but that's another topic...). to get to 6 in a stat you'd have to combine levelling with other things that boost your stat(s).

One stat I was thinking could be "Combat Skill" that would govern your accuracy with weapons. At certain stat levels of Combat Skill you'd get +1/+2/or+3 to accuracy. And then each weapon itself would have a "speed" or "accuracy" weapon that adds +1/+2/or +3 to accuracy. The total accuracy you then compare to opponent's evasion, and by comparing it that would give you a target number you'd have to roll equal to or higher than on 2d6.

It'd work the same way for Magic and Ranged Combat accuracy etc...

Thus, using that type of system would make it so that it's not only the lightness of a weapon but also the skill of the user that makes it accurate. However, that would also mean an unskilled and/or slow user could use something like a fast dagger or scimitar and be quite accurate...

A further idea for the system that came to my mind was that the type of evasion stat you are facing depends on whether you are using Melee, Ranged, or Magic...Melee would face opponent's Combat Skill unless they are dodging (in which case it's vs agility), Ranged is vs Agility, and Magic could be against Agility or Magic (depends on the type of spell).

So what I'm wondering about is, what makes the most sense thematically and mechanically? Should weapon accuracy be based entirely on stats, entirely on the weapon, or a mix of both somehow?

schattentanz
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wow :)

Hiya :)

You are spending a whole lot of thought on your game! That's cool :)

Regarding your question:

Thematically I would put it like this:
A fighter's skill (the "Combat Skill") with a weapon determines the to-hit-bonus, whereas the weapon per se determines the speed. I would not transform the speed into a to-hit-bonus as well, since it doesn't make sense (at least in my eyes). Rather I would go for "number of attacks".

Suggestion:
Each weapon and each spell has got a speed stat. Every time combat ensues, players start counting combat turns. Players announce, what they are going to (such as attack with dagger, attack with sword, cast a spell). On turn (current turn + speed stat) they may act.
Example:
A fighter and a wizard encounter an orc.
Combat begins (combat turn 0)
Players declare actions: The fighter attacks with a longsword (speed 4), the wizard casts a spell (speed 6) and the orc attacks with a short sword (speed 3).
The orc comes first on combat turn 3, attacking with his short sword and declaring another attack with that sword. The fighter comes second on combat turn 4. On combat turn 6 the wizard finishes casting his spell and declares casting another spell. Also on turn 6 the orc attacks simultaneously with the wizard (turn 3 + speed 3 = another attack on combat turn 6) and declares another attack with the short sword (which he could deliver on combat turn 9).

When a character gets hit, his current action could become prolonged or even completely interrupted, maybe depending on the amount of damage delivered or depending on a skill used ("interrupting strike" - speed 1, no damage, but interrupts an action on a roll of X+).

Just some thoughts :)

Kind regards,
Kai

larienna
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Personally, I like reducing

Personally, I like reducing deriving stats. So not a stat, that change a stat, that change a stat.

If you want the character and the weapon to affect the game, then one way to do it is that each concept affect the die roll differently. For example, maybe the Target Number is given by the weapon, but the nb of dice rolled is determined by the character stats (pick the best die). So in that case, a weak character can still use a weapon efficiently, but will be more prone to bad luck than the skilled character.

If you want only the weapon, then you could restrict which weapon the character can equip either due to it's class or it stats. Like you need str 5 to equip an axe. Instead of a str 5 gives +2 when using axe. By removing modifiers, it makes it much more convenient to play. It also avoid modifier stacking you would not have thought, so more control on your game.

devaloki
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Larienna,Well, personally I

Larienna,
Well, personally I like the idea of stats giving derivative bonuses to things.
I do really like the idea of having minimum requirements for certain gear in the gear and I am considering doing something like that , but a problem I thought may arise from that is: why would a player raise their stat if it gives no benefit other than the possibility of maybe using a piece of gear that you might find?

With the modifier stacking stuff, I would simply limit the max amount of modifiers (from stats and/or gear and/or spells buffing the character) to a certain number.

If I use the derivative stats thing, I'd like each stat to affect somewhere between 2-3 things, some affect what happens on the board ("Overworld") whilst some things are only in regard to combat. The stats affect things passively, they don't give you active abilities that you use as actions.
So if stats range from 1-6 it'd be like this at each level of the stat:

1: Default
2: +minor bonus
3: +major bonus
4: +minor bonus
5: +major bonus
6: +minor bonus

or alternatively
1: Default
2: +minor bonus
3: +major bonus
4: +minor bonus
5: +minor bonus
6: +major bonus

Here's an example of how it'd work with the Scouting (aka "Exploratory" previously, still undecided about the name):

1: Overworld: 1d6 exploration dice and look at only top treasure when obtaining treasure, Combat: 1d6 Escape dice
2: Overworld: 1d6 exploration dice, 1 treasure card, Combat: 2d6 Escape dice
3: Overworld: 2d6 exploration dice, 1 treasure card, Combat: 2d6 escape dice
4: Overworld: 2d6 exploration dice, 2 treasure cards (draw one , choose one), Combat: 2d6 escape
5: Overworld: 3d6 exploration dice, 2 treasure cards, 2d6 escape
6: 3d6 exploration dice, 3 treasure cards (draw 3 choose one), 2d6 escape

So levelling the stats would, as currently envisioned (though subject to change of course): 1. improve related/derived abilities 2. fullfill minimum requirements for certain skills and gear & 3. Be used for quick checks in overworld events (e.g. boulder is falling at you, roll # of dice equal to your Scouting skill, each 6+ counts as a success, you need one success or you get hit).

"For example, maybe the Target Number is given by the weapon, but the nb of dice rolled is determined by the character stats (pick the best die)"
I'd like the target number in combat to be a comparison of sorts between the weapon's traits & the skill of the user vs the agility/evasiveness of the enemy.

"So in that case, a weak character can still use a weapon efficiently, but will be more prone to bad luck than the skilled character."
Could you explain what you mean by more by this? Like give an example perhaps?

"It also avoid modifier stacking you would not have thought, so more control on your game."
I do see what you're saying about modifiers being stacked too much and being hard to track everything...
The type of dice mechanics I like is where you get extra dice to roll and you're trying to reach a target number with the dice. Either 1. by trying to get an individual dice to get a certain #. or 2. by trying to reach a target number with the best dice out of the pool (e.g. needing to get a 10+, you roll 5 dice and then choose best two out of the pool and if the total is 10+ you hit)

devaloki
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Hey schattentanz, thanks for

Hey schattentanz, thanks for the kind words and encouragement!

"Thematically I would put it like this:
A fighter's skill (the "Combat Skill") with a weapon determines the to-hit-bonus, whereas the weapon per se determines the speed. I would not transform the speed into a to-hit-bonus as well, since it doesn't make sense (at least in my eyes). Rather I would go for "number of attacks"."

Now that you mentioned that, an idea popped into my head. What if the Combat Skill determines your base accuracy, but then is modified by your opponent's agility in relation to the speed of your weapon? So if your speed is higher you get a +x bonus to your roll? Weapons could simply be slow, medium, and fast...I'll have to work on the idea.

As far as your second half of your post goes, I made a thread in the past on here concerning how to make time work in combat in my game. The style that you mentioned there I had considered. If you've ever played the game Red November , that'd be the way I would handle/track things. Also there's a RPG called Hackmaster that does a similar style. But, for simplicity, I think it'd be easier just to keep things turn-based.
Most battles I'd like to have about 3-4 turns for each combatant before the battle is finished on average.

Also, I do get what you're saying about making it so speed doesn't affect accuracy, do you have any other ideas for a way I could have speed implemented besides changing the game from turn-based combat to the speed type system you mentioned?

devaloki
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"For example, maybe the

"For example, maybe the Target Number is given by the weapon, but the nb of dice rolled is determined by the character stats (pick the best die)."
Perhaps it could be that you compare the speed of the weapon to the opponent, that gives you a target # and then , as you pointed out, the number of dice rolled is determined by stats.
So say you are hitting with a slow halberd versus a fast evasive opponent.
Speed 1 versus Agi 3 you would need a 6 and say your Combat Skill is a 3 so you roll 3 dice and you need one 6 to hit.
But how would criticals be handled in such a system?
Perhaps it could be that you critical/surge for each additional hit you do?
That type of system would be 1d6 pool based. Which is a cool alternative.
My original ide, as mentioned in my other threads, would be that the to hit roll is 2d6 based. You compare the Accuracy (however it's determined...which is what this thread was about) versus the Agility of the enemy, compare it on a table to see what the target number is.
Here's the chart I was working based upon:
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n183/littlebilly_02/GA_Conversion_Gra...
Crits (known as surges) would occur based upon individual rolls of 6 (or 5 for certain weapons) so you can get up to 2 surges during a fight. Bonuses for the to hit roll would generally be "bonus dice" (extra dice you roll and then you choose the best two out of the total pool to get your 2d6 total for the roll). Though I was thinking crits could simply occur on a to hit roll of 12 (or 11 or even 10 for certain weapons), so a character with high accuracy (i.e. extra bonus dice) would have more of a chance of not only hitting but also surging.
I would like to implement a system in the game too where skill of the character also affects their chance to surge, so certain characters are more proficient in daggers for example than others...
Perhaps I could do that by having it so that there is a requirement of strength to wield the weapon, but also a requirement of Agility that determines when the weapon would surge on a lower result than the normal result?
Just some thoughts of mine, sorry if I'm too wordy...

devaloki
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One last thing I have to say

One last thing I have to say for now too...
Working on designing this reminds me of the time I used to play gamebooks when I was young and I found a lot of the combat systems and how they handled weapons to be too simplistic. I ended up making my own house rules with it for how different weapons work. I'm making my game to be kind of like a house ruled version of them in a way.
I enjoy the combat system in them, but I always thought there should be more differentiation between weapons besides just one being +1 and another bieng +2...

devaloki
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I had an idea a little bit

I had an idea a little bit ago on an alternate way crits could be handled.
Perhaps surges could be a separate thing..
But for crits, when the attacker makes their damage roll, all weapons have 2 damage possibilities: average and critical. If it were just a 1d6 system for damage, then 1-5= average damage, 6=critical. a natural 1 always counts as a 1 no matter any modifiers.
When you roll for damage you a modifier of +x = relevant stat-1. Some weapons get the +x from Strength, others from Agility. The Combat Skill stat would be for your general proficiency and accuracy with all weapons, Strength and Agility would determine damage though. So heavy axes would be all about Strength in order to reach critical , whereas weapons like Estocs and Daggers would be Agility based.
Although that would make it so they essentially only have two damage values, when I'd rather have weapons have more of a range of possible values/ranges for damage

devaloki
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So, if I don't use derivative

.

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