# Need help making card sets

11 replies [Last post]
Dralius
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Joined: 07/26/2008

I have a game idea that I am having problems prototyping.

The game is made up of 100 square cards each divided into quadrants with each quadrant filled with one of 10 images. Being that that is 400 total images I want each of the 10 images to appear 40 times but have all the cards combos be unique.

Does anyone have I simple solution to do this, my brain is aching.

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Joined: 07/08/2013
Not sure what exactly you're asking.

Dralius wrote:
I have a game idea that I am having problems prototyping.

The game is made up of 100 square cards each divided into quadrants with each quadrant filled with one of 10 images. Being that that is 400 total images I want each of the 10 images to appear 40 times but have all the cards combos be unique.

Does anyone have I simple solution to do this, my brain is aching.

Initial prototypes shouldn't be art heavy at all. You should make the prototype focus on the gameplay itself. Personally. I don't put art unless it's needed (in terms of icons or game mechanics).

I'd use simple shapes like square, triangle, star, etc. then move on to art. Then just use paper and go to an Office Depot or FedEx Kinko's and use their equipment to cut the cards.

But as far as arranging them in a way that's appearing 40 times but having unique combos, I'd start with an excel file and map out all the card combos before putting them on cards. There might be online resources that can do that, but I don't know any off them of my head.

Ultimately, you'll need to do some work on this. Hope this helps.

Dralius
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Joined: 07/26/2008
The problem is there are 5040

The problem is there are 5040 different combos if none of them appear on a card more then once. Plus there is the duplicate combos to weed out.

a,b,c,d = b,a,d,c

I am already working with a spreadsheet and giving each image a unique value like in binary 1,2,4,8,16,32 etc.. so that when they are added you only need to compare numeric value of the set to know that they are a unique set. I was hoping there was a simpler and less time consuming way.

X3M
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Joined: 10/28/2013
10 x 9 x 8 x 7 = 5040.

10 x 9 x 8 x 7 = 5040. However, this is with every possible combination.

***

But your game contains only 100 cards?
There might be a situation that one picture appears only once in the entire deck of "100". Or some pictures appear on every card.
I guess you are making the spreadsheet for ruling out making duplicates by accident...?

***

A suggestion:
You have only 1 of this.

Then add 5 and make every possibility. But keep them in order. Meaning 1,2,3,4,5 and simply ticking 1 out except 5. You can't have duplicates this way.
Better yet, don't make a tick out system. But simply write them down.

1,2,3,5
1,2,4,5
1,3,4,5
2,3,4,5
There are 4 of these. A total of 5.

Same with 6. 6 is not to be ticked out, but all others can be ticked out. Please take note that they increase in total, but only in 1 sublist.
1,2,3,6 (number 1236)
1,2,4,6 (number 1246 which comes after 1236)
1,2,5,6
1,3,4,6
1,3,5,6
1,4,5,6
2,3,4,6
2,3,5,6
2,4,5,6
3,4,5,6
You have 10 of these. A total of 15.

7: You have 20, 35 in total.
8: You have 35, 70 in total.
9: You have 56, 126 in total.
10: You have 84, 210 in total.

I hope this helps. If not, I can write them out of you. However, it is a semi-manual way how I do it.

keshiekay
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Joined: 05/31/2015
Also in Excel

Why not use RANDBETWEEN in Excel to randomly generate each card? You'll need to visually check later if there are exact matches.

Question, though -- so Image 2 can't appear twice on the same card?

So a card with I.3, I.3, I.10, 1.4 couldn't exist
Or just a permutation of I.3, I.3, I.10, 1.4?

If the same picture can appear twice on a card, you could maybe use the formulas in this sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VRsEWDA77LAKq-0yhCdED5IO06Em4aAu...

Dralius
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Joined: 07/26/2008
keshiekay wrote:Why not use

keshiekay wrote:
Why not use RANDBETWEEN in Excel to randomly generate each card? You'll need to visually check later if there are exact matches.

Question, though -- so Image 2 can't appear twice on the same card?

So a card with I.3, I.3, I.10, 1.4 couldn't exist
Or just a permutation of I.3, I.3, I.10, 1.4?

If the same picture can appear twice on a card, you could maybe use the formulas in this sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VRsEWDA77LAKq-0yhCdED5IO06Em4aAubftWc4qBGLE/edit?usp=sharing

None of the images may appear more than once on a given card. I could use a random generator to make 100 cards but it would take some real programming to check for duplicates and I am well out of practice or I would have written a program to do it all for me.

Checking by hand gets harder as you go on I have 18 sets so far and my 19th means I have to check it against the 18th before so imagine how many card checks will be required to make a deck of 100 plus I need to make sure there are = numbers of each image.

537h
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Joined: 08/28/2015
From Random.org

From Random.org (https://www.random.org/integer-sets/?sets=100&num=4&min=1&max=10&seqnos=...):

You requested 100 sets with 4 unique random integers in each, taken from the [1,10] range. The integers in each set were sorted in ascending order.

Set 1: 3, 8, 9, 10
Set 2: 3, 4, 6, 7
Set 3: 1, 2, 7, 9
Set 4: 3, 5, 7, 10
Set 5: 1, 2, 3, 5
Set 6: 4, 7, 8, 10
Set 7: 3, 7, 8, 9
Set 8: 2, 3, 6, 9
Set 9: 1, 2, 3, 6
Set 10: 1, 3, 4, 10
Set 11: 1, 2, 5, 8
Set 12: 4, 6, 8, 9
Set 13: 2, 3, 7, 8
Set 14: 2, 3, 7, 8
Set 15: 1, 5, 8, 10
Set 16: 2, 3, 4, 7
Set 17: 1, 2, 7, 9
Set 18: 5, 7, 9, 10
Set 19: 3, 6, 7, 8
Set 20: 4, 8, 9, 10
Set 21: 1, 4, 6, 9
Set 22: 3, 6, 7, 10
Set 23: 3, 6, 7, 8
Set 24: 2, 3, 6, 7
Set 25: 1, 2, 7, 8
Set 26: 5, 6, 7, 9
Set 27: 4, 7, 8, 10
Set 28: 1, 2, 3, 7
Set 29: 1, 5, 8, 9
Set 30: 3, 7, 9, 10
Set 31: 1, 2, 6, 10
Set 32: 3, 4, 8, 10
Set 33: 2, 3, 7, 9
Set 34: 2, 4, 5, 8
Set 35: 1, 3, 4, 5
Set 36: 1, 3, 4, 10
Set 37: 2, 7, 8, 10
Set 38: 3, 4, 6, 8
Set 39: 5, 7, 8, 9
Set 40: 1, 2, 4, 6
Set 41: 3, 6, 8, 9
Set 42: 1, 5, 8, 9
Set 43: 3, 5, 6, 8
Set 44: 2, 4, 6, 9
Set 45: 1, 3, 8, 10
Set 46: 1, 2, 3, 10
Set 47: 4, 6, 7, 9
Set 48: 1, 5, 6, 9
Set 49: 1, 3, 7, 8
Set 50: 5, 6, 8, 9
Set 51: 3, 4, 6, 10
Set 52: 3, 4, 5, 9
Set 53: 4, 6, 9, 10
Set 54: 1, 3, 5, 9
Set 55: 4, 7, 8, 9
Set 56: 1, 5, 6, 7
Set 57: 1, 3, 9, 10
Set 58: 2, 3, 5, 7
Set 59: 2, 3, 7, 8
Set 60: 2, 4, 5, 8
Set 61: 1, 2, 4, 8
Set 62: 2, 3, 5, 7
Set 63: 1, 2, 4, 9
Set 64: 1, 2, 8, 9
Set 65: 1, 4, 6, 9
Set 66: 1, 8, 9, 10
Set 67: 4, 5, 6, 7
Set 68: 1, 3, 8, 10
Set 69: 1, 2, 4, 6
Set 70: 2, 5, 6, 10
Set 71: 3, 6, 8, 9
Set 72: 1, 6, 7, 10
Set 73: 1, 3, 4, 9
Set 74: 2, 7, 8, 10
Set 75: 1, 5, 7, 9
Set 76: 5, 6, 7, 9
Set 77: 2, 7, 8, 9
Set 78: 6, 7, 8, 9
Set 79: 2, 4, 8, 9
Set 80: 4, 6, 7, 8
Set 81: 1, 3, 6, 10
Set 82: 6, 7, 8, 10
Set 83: 1, 2, 9, 10
Set 84: 1, 2, 3, 7
Set 85: 2, 6, 8, 10
Set 86: 1, 2, 4, 9
Set 87: 4, 8, 9, 10
Set 88: 2, 5, 6, 7
Set 89: 2, 4, 6, 9
Set 90: 2, 6, 9, 10
Set 91: 4, 6, 7, 9
Set 92: 5, 6, 9, 10
Set 93: 1, 7, 8, 9
Set 94: 1, 5, 6, 7
Set 95: 4, 5, 7, 9
Set 96: 1, 2, 4, 10
Set 97: 3, 5, 7, 8
Set 98: 1, 2, 6, 7
Set 99: 4, 7, 8, 9
Set 100: 2, 3, 7, 10

Now to figure out how to get them to print like that, hmmm.

Note: The above sets aren't guaranteed to be all unique sets, but there is a pretty good chance that they are since they are randomly selected from among the 5040 possible sets. Since the numbers are all listed smallest to largest, it would be fairly easy to sort them to check for duplicates as well.

Oops Note: Well that actually looks to have around 11 duplicated sets in it--much more that I had thought it would have. Oh, well. Also, this doesn't ensure that you are going to have exactly 40 of each image. :(

X3M
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Joined: 10/28/2013
How about that list of 210

How about that list of 210 cards? Then select every even set. And discard 5 more. Then you have exactly 100 cards without duplicates.

537h
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Joined: 08/28/2015
I played around for a minute and...

Up with list set of unique sets where every number is only used once in each set and is used exactly 40 time in total:

01, 02, 03, 04
01, 02, 03, 05
01, 02, 03, 06
01, 02, 03, 07
01, 02, 03, 08
01, 03, 06, 09
01, 02, 03, 10
01, 02, 04, 05
01, 02, 04, 06
01, 02, 04, 07
01, 02, 04, 08
01, 02, 04, 09
01, 02, 04, 10
01, 02, 05, 06
01, 02, 05, 07
01, 02, 05, 08
01, 02, 05, 09
01, 02, 05, 10
01, 02, 06, 07
01, 02, 06, 08
01, 02, 06, 09
01, 02, 06, 10
01, 02, 07, 08
01, 02, 07, 09
01, 02, 07, 10
01, 02, 08, 09
01, 02, 08, 10
01, 02, 09, 10
01, 03, 04, 05
01, 03, 04, 06
01, 03, 04, 07
01, 03, 04, 08
01, 03, 04, 09
01, 03, 04, 10
01, 03, 05, 06
01, 03, 05, 07
01, 03, 05, 08
01, 03, 05, 09
01, 03, 05, 10
01, 03, 06, 07
02, 03, 07, 09
02, 03, 07, 10
02, 03, 08, 09
02, 03, 08, 10
02, 03, 09, 10
02, 04, 05, 06
02, 04, 05, 07
02, 04, 05, 08
02, 04, 05, 09
02, 04, 05, 10
02, 04, 06, 07
02, 04, 06, 08
02, 08, 09, 10
03, 05, 07, 08
03, 05, 07, 09
03, 05, 07, 10
03, 05, 08, 09
03, 05, 08, 10
03, 05, 09, 10
03, 06, 07, 08
03, 06, 07, 09
03, 06, 07, 10
03, 06, 08, 09
03, 06, 08, 10
03, 06, 09, 10
03, 07, 08, 09
03, 07, 08, 10
03, 07, 09, 10
03, 08, 09, 10
04, 05, 06, 07
04, 05, 06, 08
04, 05, 06, 09
04, 05, 06, 10
04, 05, 07, 08
04, 05, 07, 09
04, 05, 07, 10
04, 05, 08, 09
04, 05, 08, 10
04, 05, 09, 10
04, 06, 07, 08
04, 06, 07, 09
04, 06, 07, 10
04, 06, 08, 09
04, 06, 08, 10
04, 06, 09, 10
04, 07, 08, 09
04, 07, 08, 10
04, 07, 09, 10
04, 08, 09, 10
05, 06, 07, 08
05, 06, 07, 09
05, 06, 07, 10
05, 06, 08, 09
05, 06, 08, 10
05, 06, 09, 10
06, 07, 08, 09
06, 07, 08, 10
06, 07, 09, 10
06, 08, 09, 10
07, 08, 09, 10

Dralius
Offline
Joined: 07/26/2008
537h wrote:Up with list set

537h wrote:
Up with list set of unique sets where every number is only used once in each set and is used exactly 40 time in total:

01, 02, 03, 04
01, 02, 03, 05
01, 02, 03, 06
01, 02, 03, 07
01, 02, 03, 08
01, 03, 06, 09
01, 02, 03, 10
01, 02, 04, 05
01, 02, 04, 06
01, 02, 04, 07
01, 02, 04, 08
01, 02, 04, 09
01, 02, 04, 10
01, 02, 05, 06
01, 02, 05, 07
01, 02, 05, 08
01, 02, 05, 09
01, 02, 05, 10
01, 02, 06, 07
01, 02, 06, 08
01, 02, 06, 09
01, 02, 06, 10
01, 02, 07, 08
01, 02, 07, 09
01, 02, 07, 10
01, 02, 08, 09
01, 02, 08, 10
01, 02, 09, 10
01, 03, 04, 05
01, 03, 04, 06
01, 03, 04, 07
01, 03, 04, 08
01, 03, 04, 09
01, 03, 04, 10
01, 03, 05, 06
01, 03, 05, 07
01, 03, 05, 08
01, 03, 05, 09
01, 03, 05, 10
01, 03, 06, 07
02, 03, 07, 09
02, 03, 07, 10
02, 03, 08, 09
02, 03, 08, 10
02, 03, 09, 10
02, 04, 05, 06
02, 04, 05, 07
02, 04, 05, 08
02, 04, 05, 09
02, 04, 05, 10
02, 04, 06, 07
02, 04, 06, 08
02, 08, 09, 10
03, 05, 07, 08
03, 05, 07, 09
03, 05, 07, 10
03, 05, 08, 09
03, 05, 08, 10
03, 05, 09, 10
03, 06, 07, 08
03, 06, 07, 09
03, 06, 07, 10
03, 06, 08, 09
03, 06, 08, 10
03, 06, 09, 10
03, 07, 08, 09
03, 07, 08, 10
03, 07, 09, 10
03, 08, 09, 10
04, 05, 06, 07
04, 05, 06, 08
04, 05, 06, 09
04, 05, 06, 10
04, 05, 07, 08
04, 05, 07, 09
04, 05, 07, 10
04, 05, 08, 09
04, 05, 08, 10
04, 05, 09, 10
04, 06, 07, 08
04, 06, 07, 09
04, 06, 07, 10
04, 06, 08, 09
04, 06, 08, 10
04, 06, 09, 10
04, 07, 08, 09
04, 07, 08, 10
04, 07, 09, 10
04, 08, 09, 10
05, 06, 07, 08
05, 06, 07, 09
05, 06, 07, 10
05, 06, 08, 09
05, 06, 08, 10
05, 06, 09, 10
06, 07, 08, 09
06, 07, 08, 10
06, 07, 09, 10
06, 08, 09, 10
07, 08, 09, 10

Thanks I am on a short schedule to get it prototypes by next game day.

nand
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Joined: 07/27/2008
nanDECK

With nanDECK, it's a six-lines script:

c[set]4=01,02,03,04,05,06,07,08,09,10
[all]=1-{(set)}
image=[all],"[set:1,2].png",0,0,50%,50%,P
image=[all],"[set:3,2].png",0,50%,50%,50%,P
image=[all],"[set:5,2].png",50%,0,50%,50%,P
image=[all],"[set:7,2].png",50%,50%,50%,50%,P

If you save and run it in a folder with the image files (01.png, 02.png, etc) it creates the 210 cards (the combinations of 10 elements in sets of 4).

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Joined: 09/02/2014

If so then you've actually only got 1260 unique combinations.

[1, 2]
[3, 4]
rotated by 90 degrees is the same as:
[3, 1]
[4, 2]

Regardless of that:
I would recommend some sort of pattern there rather than just doing it randomly, doing it randomly *will* have an effect on your game and change the strategies involved, possibly making some entirely impossible, in entirely unpredictable ways.

So it would probably be better to work out which patterns of those unique combinations can be reduced to *about* 100 cards easily, and use whatever number of cards come out. If you try to force it to 100 cards without some systematic way of doing so then again the strategies in your game will be erratic and the value if each icon will vary in ways you might not want.

So, for example, make it so certain icons only appear next to some of the other icons rather than all of them. That will reduce the number of possible combinations in a systematic way.

Or just use less icons, say 6. (6x5x4x3/4=90 unique combinations, hey it's close!)

It might be worth solving this problem (of making the viable set of cards) with just 5 icons first (a mere 30 combos). Then you might be able to have a better idea of the number of cards you will need, the work required, and make a prototype just try out mechanics.