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Cardbased Miniature Skirmish Game

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mlkr
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Hello everyone.
So, new to the forum and new to gamedesign. Not that new to games though. I like playing most TT-games but have a soft spot for worker placement, cardmechanics and miniatures. In other parts of life I am always working on something since I like having projects running to keep myself occupied.

A while back I started to think about creating a miniature skirmish game with cardbased mechanics for performing actions and such. I have gotten the basics for a ruleset together and got curious if anyone would be interested to look at it.

I have attached a .pdf with the current version of how I am envisioning stuff to work. If there is any interest in it I would be very thankfull for any and all feedback of any kind!

Cheers!
/Marcus

Soulfinger
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This has so many decks that

This has so many decks that it may be worth dropping the miniatures element altogether and turning it into a card-based game. The reason is that miniature skirmish games are a dime a dozen and people try to crowdfund new ones every month. Card games are more viable because of the smaller investment, both for the consumer and for you as a manufacturer. By producing a miniatures game, you either elect to use generic miniatures, which is failure by default (with rare exceptions, like Song of Blades and Heroes), or commit to spending thousands of dollars manufacturing your own line. Added to that, there are only so many cards that your typical wargamer will put up with, and the vast bulk of that market is firmly locked into Games Workshop or Privateer Press.

Might as well just call HP hit points, as it is pretty much industry standard anymore.

Not really much to go by, but fluff is going to be the most important element for this sort of game. I hope you are either an amazing artist or have friends who'll work cheap, because every one of those cards will require an illustration to make the game competitive. The world that you create will dictate what players see on those cards.

Skirmish games for reference:
--Mordheim (OOP)
--Necromunda (OOP)
--Infinity
--Malifaux
--Dystopian Wars / Dystopian Legions
--Brikwars
--Confrontation (OOP)
--AT-43 (OOP)
--Gangs of Mega-City One / Judge Dredd
--Warzone
--Wrath of Kings
--Warmachine

mlkr
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Hi Soulfinger :)Thanks for

Hi Soulfinger :)

Thanks for input - Yes, there are so many miniature games already available that another commercial one would just drown in the competition. I'm not looking at going commercial though - mostly want to build a functioning game for play at conventions :)

I am not sure about con's in other countries (haven't been to any) but in Sweden a lot of the activities are created by other visitors. A lot is drop-in and play and one of the more popular things (but also less common) are miniature/diorama-style games. Problem is I can't find a game that let's about 10 people play 1 miniature each. (Unless I start looking at RPG's) Most stuff is 1vs1 with X figures duking it out. (Mordheim, Warmachine, Inifinity, Malifaux and so on)

Basically I am just creating something for fun, not for money. Less pressure, less hassle and more freedom in alternatives.

With that in mind - do you think the rules will work? A lot of decks for sure, but when game is on a player only needs to worry about their personal class deck and if getting shot at - draw cards from one more deck. Between games the other decks might be used.

Fluff is being thought of, but nothing special yet.

Thanks for feedback :)

schattentanz
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Hey Marcus, why a card based

Hey Marcus,

why a card based system, when you use dice anyways?

If I may introduce you to a system to tinker with:
The "Damage Deck" - a variant of the machanics found in the skirmish system "Freebooter's Fate":
http://www.artscow.com/gallery/playing-cards/damage-deck-0lxk5hqjtfom
(If you want to print it yourself: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/135761/damage-deck)

Along with 4 suits of 1-10 you've got 2 sets of 7 hit zone cards.
To determine whether a character hits, the attacker picks a certain number of hit zone cards. The defender picks a certain number as well.
If the defender could match each card of the attacker, the attack has been blocked.
Otherwise the attack succeeded either partially or full (whatever this might mean in your system).

You can use the suits for basically anything else: Skill checks, damage resolution, and whatever you can come up with ..

Kind regards,
Kai

Soulfinger
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mlkr wrote:I am not sure

mlkr wrote:
I am not sure about con's in other countries (haven't been to any) but in Sweden a lot of the activities are created by other visitors. A lot is drop-in and play and one of the more popular things (but also less common) are miniature/diorama-style games. Problem is I can't find a game that let's about 10 people play 1 miniature each. (Unless I start looking at RPG's) Most stuff is 1vs1 with X figures duking it out. (Mordheim, Warmachine, Inifinity, Malifaux and so on)

I haven't attended a convention, except to staff a booth, in ages. When I did go, I was rarely sober (added to which, back in the day when Games Workshop had compensated volunteers staffing Games Day, they actually bussed everyone out to a bar and got them pass-out drunk after every con). So . . . I'm not sure I have ever had a clear picture of what the con experience is here in the United States, unless it actually is getting drunk and mocking cosplayers. A convention where many of the games are handcrafted experiences instead of yet another opportunity to play games I already own sounds absolutely wonderful though. If gamers in your country have adopted deodorant as a mainstay then I may just have to relocate.

Games more on your scale (maybe 2 to 3 for each faction) that I can think of off-hand are Inquisitor from Games Workshop (the figures are generally affordable on eBay here in the States) and then a new one called Ruination by Terragnosis. I'm not sure how much support that latter game is going to receive as the company quickly turned its efforts toward a more traditional skirmish game shortly after release. Anyways, what I like about both is that they use very large figures. If you are doing this game for yourself then keep in mind that you can kitbash 1:32 scale figures, which will feel so much more satisfying than controlling a single 15mm figure. Larger figures also convey more personality, which is important in this kind of game. There are even larger scales, obviously, but with nowhere near the same model and terrain selection to work with. Also, if you can find a copy at a reasonable price, which is a rarity, Pressman Games' Siege of the Citadel was a phenomenal board game based on the Warzone setting in which four players each control two figures against a fifth player running the bad guys.

Yeah, I think your game could work though and be quite a lot of fun. Personally, if players are only controlling a single figure then I think it would be more engaging to make them each tiny gods, like the soldiers in Heinlein's Starship Troopers, wearing powered armor that lets them jump a mile while firing nukes. Something kind of like humanoid versions of the tank in Steve Jackson's Ogre. In terms of gameplay, it works out the same because super armor protects against super weapons (like Mega Damage in Rifts), but there is that assurance that were a normal guy present on that battlefield, wow, he'd be in trouble! I feel like it would be easier to comment on once the game is a little further along.

Also, don't forget that one cool thing you can do with a card-based game is layering. For example, a character's armor could start with "Reactive Ablation Carapace." Once it is penetrated, the player must decide whether to take the injury card or discard the armor to negate, revealing the card beneath, "Adaptive Biomass Insulation," which has its own characteristics distinct from the outer layer and is discarded once X criteria are met, and so on. Also, instead of race and class, a character could be made up of 3 to 9 cards to give greater variety with these doubling as hit locations. You could have something like "Ferocity," which is a beneficial trait, but an injury could force you to flip the card, revealing "Berserker," which is a negative. Another injury to that 'location' would force you to discard it, so your character is gradually killed by having its benefits subverted and then stripped away.

mlkr
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schattentanz wrote:why a card

schattentanz wrote:
why a card based system, when you use dice anyways?

True! I have thought about another idea to handle getting rid of dice for "roll to hit".

What if all attacks automagically hit?
Attack-sequence would instead look like this:

- When an attack card is played X blastmarkers are scored against your target according to info on the (AC).
- Resolve how many blastmarkers are negated by factors like cover, facing, gear and skills.
- Any still active blastmarkers results in target player drawing cards from the hurt deck.
- Resolve effects from drawn hurt cards.
- Resume turnsequence.

Only thing I would have to add instead of a diceroll to hit would be hurt cards that contains "miss". So if, lets say, 8 blastmarkers are scored and 5 can be negated - the remaining 3 results in 3 drawn cards where 1 might miss and the other 2 is actual hits. Or all 3 misses, and so on. Could that be an interesting workaround for rolling to hit?

schattentanz wrote:
To determine whether a character hits, the attacker picks a certain number of hit zone cards. The defender picks a certain number as well.
If the defender could match each card of the attacker, the attack has been blocked. Otherwise the attack succeeded either partially or full (whatever this might mean in your system).

This is freakin' awesome! I have been thinking about how to do a fantasy-version of what I am currently working on but distanced combat is a bit different from CC. A system like this could potentially work great for handling melee between footsoldiers bashing on each other with sword and shield. I will have to look into that :D Also - love their miniatures. Have a few of them already so wouldnt mind looking into the rules either ^_^

Might be able to also use this for Close Combat in this project, but maybe I should just keep it clean with only firearms. Simpler and more straightforward.

Thanks anyways for feedback. Love to be able to throw ideas around with people!

mlkr
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Soulfinger wrote:I haven't

Soulfinger wrote:
I haven't attended a convention, except to staff a booth, in ages. When I did go, I was rarely sober (added to which, back in the day when Games Workshop had compensated volunteers staffing Games Day, they actually bussed everyone out to a bar and got them pass-out drunk after every con). So . . . I'm not sure I have ever had a clear picture of what the con experience is here in the United States, unless it actually is getting drunk and mocking cosplayers. A convention where many of the games are handcrafted experiences instead of yet another opportunity to play games I already own sounds absolutely wonderful though. If gamers in your country have adopted deodorant as a mainstay then I may just have to relocate.

Hehe :) There seems to be a big difference in how Con's look around the globe ;) Usually cons in Sweden are organized by volunteers and a lot of the content are also by volunteers. It's a fun place to be and you can find a lot of fun little games to play if you like that. You can of course also find the big ones like MTG and WHFB/40K and such games. Deodorant is probably used by most visitors, but you do have certain groups of people who yet has to discover it's many uses. Magicplayers come to mind ;)

Gotta look into Ruination - never heard of it!

About kitbashing - is 1:32 scale about 28mm/Heroic-scale? And yeah, it would be nicer to do it in a larger scale that 15mm - I'm just hesitant about the difference in price and having to move a lot of bigger stuff around to con's.

Soulfinger wrote:
Yeah, I think your game could work though and be quite a lot of fun. Personally, if players are only controlling a single figure then I think it would be more engaging to make them each tiny gods... -> In terms of gameplay, it works out the same because super armor protects against super weapons...

That's nice to hear :) And yup - thinking that characters should be able to take quite a beating and be very powerfull compared to a regular person. I have been playing a lot of "Evolve" on PS4 lately - A game where 4 hunters have been hired to take a huuuge monster down. They got jetpacks and specialist weapons so it's a really fun experience. I'm thinking the characters are mercenaries hired to carry out difficult/impossible jobs. Basically guns for hire. Thinking it should open up for a lot of gameideas fluff-wise.

Will have to look into the layeringmechanic also. Sounds like a fun way to build a character! Thanks :)

I think next up will have to be creating a "basic" character and a basic "class deck". Then pitting a a few of these against each other and work out a functioning balance to build the rest of the game on. Would you guys agree this is the next step or have I missed anything?

Thank you for the input so far. Very much appreciated!
/Marcus

Soulfinger
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mlkr wrote:Usually cons in

mlkr wrote:
Usually cons in Sweden are organized by volunteers and a lot of the content are also by volunteers. It's a fun place to be and you can find a lot of fun little games to play if you like that. About kitbashing - is 1:32 scale about 28mm/Heroic-scale?

Smaller cons are like that here, and I enjoy those more than the big commercial affairs. I wish that I was younger and less of a jerk, because I would probably enjoy attending one. Shoot, I meant 1:35, which is the scale for your typical WWII model that you'd find at a traditional hobby shop. I'd estimate about 1.5 to 2 times bigger than a 28mm figure. Better yet, they tend to be much cheaper.

Soulfinger wrote:
I think next up will have to be creating a "basic" character and a basic "class deck". Then pitting a a few of these against each other and work out a functioning balance to build the rest of the game on. Would you guys agree this is the next step or have I missed anything?

Sounds about right. Good luck. I look forward to seeing some updates in the future.

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