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fast, card-based RPG

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SlyBlu7
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Joined: 03/15/2012

I'm a long time D&D player, and I've heard the complain a million times that 4ed. feels like a card game, so I thought about it for a bit and wondered if it were possible to *make* it a card game. The idea is that a lot of people can't get into D&D because they don't like the roleplay aspect (or crazy RPers scare them) but they still like RPGs like WoW or Elder Scrolls because they just get to build awesome characters. So this game strips out all of the RPing and focuses on Combat/Loot and Character Creation.

The plan is that 1-4 players choose a Class. There is a larger card/mat that depicts their character and some minor class-specific traits, and an accompanying deck of cards. The cards represent the skills that you are interested in learning as your character levels up (from 1 to 10). Players pre-assemble their deck before the game (this is not a deck-building game) to create a synergy that fits their playstyle and hopefully complements the playstyle of their group.

The game is set to be players vs. deck, with a deck of Dungeon and Event/Encounter cards, and deck of Monsters and Loot. As players go through an encounter, they defeat the Monsters (who attack with an ingenious class-based AI system) and stockpile Loot. The more Encounters you clear, the more Loot you get and the more likely you are to Level Up. However, the only way to recharge your Health and some of your powers is to Rest, forcing players to play a balancing game between forging ahead for more rewards and risk failure, or cash in early and take what they can get.

Combat is worked out on a "six-sided D10" principle, with a D6 marked 2,4,6,8,10, and 'Critical'. The Critical is either a critical success or critical failure based on the situation and character proficiencies.

The intent is to make the game playable in about an 1 to 1.5 hours from level 1 to level 10. If the game goes into publication it would be very easy to expand upon by offering new Skill decks, complete new Classes, new Loot stacks, new Dungeons, and new Monsters to allow players to customize their experience each time.

What are your thoughts?

Fhizban
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Joined: 01/11/2009
sounds good, one of my side

sounds good, one of my side projects uses a similar aproach

i just tossed out the D&D setting (due to copyright) and use a regular d6 (makes production easier and cheaper)

there are X players and a single gamesmaster. players have character deck containing skills, items, personal quests etc. each. while the gamesmaster has a dungeon deck that contains monsters, locations, traps and stuff like that.

the gamesmaster could be replaced by a deck alone (like you stated in your post)

all in all my idea was planned to be something like the old "heroquest" based on cards

share more thoughts - idea is good!

SlyBlu7
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Joined: 03/15/2012
Sorry my posts are so long.

I'm also going to drop the D&D setting, although some of the mechanics will unfortunately carry over (there are 4 class 'artchtypes' that every class falls into, and there are equivalents to 'Encounter' and 'Daily' powers)
Some of the stuff I sort of want to keep under wraps, like the way that the card AI works. I have hit some stumbling blocks though -

First is figuring out how to get players to level up. At the moment I'm trying to base it on hand-size at the end of each encounter. Your level determines your handsize between encounters - during the encounter you can have as many cards as you want in your hand, but after the encounter you would have to discard any excess. In order to level up, you must end the encounter with at least 1 more card in your hand than you began with.

Drawing cards is a result of certain powers, or class features. A Cleric/Healer might get to draw a card any time they heal more than 10pts of damage in a turn, and 2 cards whenever they revive a fallen player. A Warrior might get to draw if they inflict 10pts of damage, and 2 cards if they kill a set of monsters who's level equal or exceed their own.
There is no discarding (except between encounters), but you use your cards from your hand to fuel your powers. As it stands, each power has two costs - the first is how many cards must be played facedown. Facedown cards are retrieved whenever the power resets. The second cost is usually cheaper, and is cards that must be played faceup. Faceup cards are discarded whenever the power resets. Some powers will reset each turn, others will only reset after the encounter is over, or after you Rest. This also limits players to the number of actions they get - you can play your whole hand down to fuel a flurry of encounter-powers, but then you are left without any cards to fuel subsequent actions.
Maximum handsize increases by +1 at every *even* numbered level. So:
Lvl1 = 5 cards, 6 to level up
Lvl2 = 6 cards, 7 to level up
Lvl3 = 6 cards, 7 to level up
Lvl4 = 7 cards, 8 to level up
...
Lvl8 = 9 cards, 10 to level up
Lvl9 = 9 cards, 10 to level uo
Lvl10 = 10 cards, maximum level

If you meet the requirements to level up, you *must* play new powers in order to advance your level. At each level you can play up to that many additional levels of power (level 2 = one L2 power or 2 L1 powers). If you play fewer than the maximum new powers, any additional powers are lost (no roll-overs). If you do not play any powers at all, you do not increase your level.

The problem that I foresee is two fold - first, it could be very easy to level up. Secondly, players level up every time they complete an encounter, but can only collect their Loot and Treasures every time they Rest (the draw being that Loot increases exponentially as encounters progress), and if they fail an encounter, any loot is lost. So you could potentially have very high level characters with NO loot, and monster difficulties are assuming that the players have a nice mix of mundane Loot and magical Treasures in addition to regular level powers.

Mattmarine
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Joined: 12/01/2011
Great idea

I really like this idea. I've contemplated it myself, as I play the rpg, however I find it hard sharing my interest with my friends who are more into the ccard game system.

I think the level up system is highly suitable and practical, if you find it too easy to level you could distribute the hand size out a little more, but I think it is fine the way it is. Perhaps at higher levels the character can draw more cards than the allowance, but is required to discard down to their hand size, forcing the player to choose between one set of powers and another.

It's a great project, I look forward to seeing it progress.

SlyBlu7
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Joined: 03/15/2012
Thank you for the support.

Thank you for the support. I'm glad to hear that you guys like it. As far as "seeing it progress," I'm afraid that there might not be too much to show as far as the design process is concerned - I come from a GW/Warhammer background, and have already developed more than my share of side-games and fan-created supplements for that game, as well as several D&D campaigns that featured modified rules for weapons etc. In college I majored in English, with a focus on Creative Writing, so polishing the language of the rules, and presenting a unique theme, is all something that I can do very easily. I don't mean to sound pretentious at all, but I can churn out a set of rules like these in a few weeks.
The foreseeable stumbling block (and one that I'm already seeking to address before even finalizing the rules) is finding artwork, getting down the nuts-and-bolts of each card, and then getting the game into a presentable form for playtesting.
I intend to use TheGameCrafter for that last bit, and I have a few tricks up my sleeve for creating cards. The only thing that I have to remember to avoid is making anything that sounds *too* much like D&D, as I've heard that WotC's legal team makes GW's look like a bunch of angry toddlers.

Crensh3000ad
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Joined: 03/06/2012
Hello Sly,I also like a lot

Hello Sly,

I also like a lot what I have read so far about your game. Maybe your game would offer more than I expected (and didn't get) from Thunderstone - I expected this one to be a cool dungeon crawler yet it turned out to be just a beautiful game of fast card-shuffling with very little variety and a generic fantasy theme pasted on.

I do not think that staying clear from D&D is a big problem. The idea of elves, dwarfs, orcs, barbarians, scouts and thiefs going into dungeons is too generic in a game to attract WotC's attraction. There are way too many fantasy games out there and WotC definitely can't sue them all for including orcs and trolls. Just avoid the term "tapping" on your cards and replace it with something that fits your game like "exert" or "activate" ;-)

What comes to my mind:

-using a single d6 will net you a lot of pretty random results

-what about some Non-Monster-Encounters, like diplomatic or economic options with creatures living in the dungeons for variety's sake ? A limited dungeon made of ravaging beasts which only differ in their attacks/damage to the player may become somewhat one-dimensional after a while.

-what about the interaction with other players? Can they help each other in difficult situations, like heal each other or break an unlucky party member free from a stone curse ?

-I would look for a way to ensure replayability - not that the Monster Encounter Deck would become uninteresting after some plays

-a possibility for running the Monster Encounter deck with AND without the Dungeon Keeper? Just in case all participating players would like to play heroes

SlyBlu7
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Joined: 03/15/2012
Thanks Crensh - once I get

Thanks Crensh - once I get this thing ironed out, I hope to provide you that awesome alternative to what was (I must agree) a frustrating adventure into Thunderstone. I'll try to answer your questions though -

1. Right now, the D6 is being made into a '10%' die - the results are 2,4,6,8,10 (double the numbers) and Critical! as the 6. The outcome of your Critical is situational, it could be a critical failure, or critical success. This helps me keep the math nice and easy. It's not just a "raw" D6 number either, there are +Nmodifiers of course, abilities that let you reroll the dice, roll more dice, modify the number shown, etc.

2. I can honestly say that I don't plan on having non-monster encounters. Perhaps as an expansion, and using a system like the L5R CCG's 'Honor' system, but the point of this game is to actually take *out* all of the RolePlaying and just get down the fun part: killing lots of monsters. Most successful "RolePlaying" Games out there right now (MMO's like WoW/ToR, and even D&D) don't require to actually play a character - they focus on building a statline and getting gear and killing monsters.

3. Other players CAN help each other, by 'Supporting', and also through effects. When the AI is assigning targets for the Monsters, players can be engaged by up to 1.5x their Level value in Monsters, to ensure that there's some over-spill onto each player while also leaving room for players to get overwhelmed. The Warrior archtype however, has the ability to pull monsters (variable based on level and the actual power) from other players to target himself - he has very high defense and hitpoints, but only mediocre damage, making him a giant shield really. The Tactician archtype on other hand, has several powers that grant rerolls and buffs to his fellow party. 'Supporting' allows an unengaged player to 'support' a single other character and allocate his attacks against that player's targets - Ranged Weapons/Abilities allow you to make Support Attacks even if you are Engaged.

4. There are already plans rattling around for expansions, provided the initial game does well. Think 'SuperDungeonExplorer' or 'Space Hulk', where the enemies are all very similar. Players have the opportunity to customize the Encounter deck somewhat (like Rooms in Space Hulk) before each game, and the Event deck is planned to be somewhere around 30 cards. The initial release is based on a single Quest, like "Raiding the Dragon's keep," and following expansions might offer a new setting like attacking a tribe of Ogres or even fighting fellow humans for control of a city.

5. At the moment the games *is* meant for players to play together as Heroes, with no GameMaster. I may consider putting rules for a GM into the initial release if the original cards support it, or I might create an abbreviated expansion with a few balancing cards and some rules to allow for a player to play the GM. I have also though about creating an expansion that makes Character Management easier, and allows a single player to take control of a whole party, and duel other player's parties (the best card-based games allow for competitive, tournament settings - this should be no different).

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