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Fear of Sleep // looking for ideas or collaborator(s)

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Tue, 11/08/2011 - 09:40
le_renard
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Have you ever felt you would never wake up again and remain trapped within your nightmares ?
This was the starting point of my new project « Fear of Sleep ».
In the designing process I came to a result far too close to a game that already exists even if I had never heard about it... ( Fearsome Floors, to be clearer )
Instead of giving up all the little ideas I had packed in this game, I'm thinking of starting it up again. Hopefully, and maybe with your precious help, will I find a new way to convey these ideas.

Here is a list of what I'd like to inject in this design, in no particular order :

  • The goal of the game is to escape the nightmare you're stuck into, before the sun rises.
  • A limited number of turns, probably a clock
  • Light vs. Darkness : players are trying to escape the grasp of Shadow, spreading everywhere around them,
  • The Shadow is the enemy, feeding from the fear of the players.
  • The more fear you feel, the stronger Shadow gets.
  • Players are equipped with torchlights that they may use to explore dark locations or defend themselves against Creatures.
  • Of course players can run out of batteries and become more vulnerable.
  • The Shadow leaves a darkness trail behind him.
  • Darkness is necessary to « summon » Creatures/Events to slow players down.
  • Players have to explore locations in order to find items/keys to open the door to waking up again.
  • When reaching a certain space on the time tracker, pressure and tension grows up and players are even more subject to fear.
  • I'm not against rolling dice in a Yahtzee, King of Tokyo way ( roll x dice with custom symbols, this will tell you waht you cand o during this turn... on a special combination, you can lose one battery, etc...)
  • when entering a dark location, players should not be aware of what's waiting for them in the dark ( secret placement of encounter tokens ? )
  • Locations on the board (or cards?) have a kind of cover value (I can picture players drawing X cover cards giving them items/bonus to protect them from the monsters)
  • Fear tests ( Arkham?) may give some additional actions points to the Shadow ( kind of Threat points )

I realize that it may be a kind of Dungeon Crawler with a twist...

I'm very open to all your ideas and suggestions, and even to collaborations (if I feel we can work as a team, progressing in the same direction )

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Tue, 11/08/2011 - 14:42
#1
The Loneliest Banana
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some suggestions

I have little idea what the basic gameplay and win condition should be, but I have some ideas for mood.

A dream game sounds like an excellent opportunity to have rules and situations the follow dream logic: they only make sense if your don't think about them. How can the monster be here if it was there? Why is this room upside-down? Wait, I don't know this person at all... To enhance the horror you could squeeze some atmosphere from this disconnect from reality and sanity.

Mechanically, it should probably be full of difficult decisions that could lead to disaster, and a heavy amount of threatening situations (such as monsters and negative game effects) hiding in hidden information zones. The ability to lose the game at any time if you mess up will dramatically increase the tension, but that can often lead to unsatisfying conclusions.

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Tue, 11/08/2011 - 16:27
#2
sounde
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The Loneliest Banana

The Loneliest Banana wrote:
sounds like an excellent opportunity to have rules and situations the follow dream logic

THIS.

Your write up sounds more like a spooky monster game than a spooky dream game.
Part of the tension of a nightmare is often the sheer confusion of it -- much more disturbing to have to press forward despite the absence of a clear and logical path.

Do you think you can bring more whimsy and dream POWER into it?
Battery-powered flashlights don't sound very dreamy -- flashlights that run on peppermints? Toad spit? Animal bones?
All depends how light or dark you want to take it.

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Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:57
#3
le_renard
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Thanks a lot to both of

Thanks a lot to both of you...

Actually, the initial idea of the game was on the "spooky side", and that's what lead me to start working on a game very similar to Fearsome Floors.

Right now, you're right, I'm probably more into something like "a nightmarish situation has invaded my reality and I keep acting and reacting according to my conception of reality and logic...".

I might try to add some madness into it, pour some "Alice in Wonderland" dust over it.

It's pretty challenging to design a game ( that implies following rules... to make it short - Calvinball is an exception ^^ ) with no logical path...

I guess the idea would be to give the feeling that it's illogical... that could be conveyed by strange locations with no or very few links between them... walking out of a room through a door and entering the new one through the mouth of a giant spider... reversing all dice results in a specific "upside-down" room, etc...

I think I never wanted the game to be a pure "horror" game.

Please, let's keep on talking about games and dreams... it's inspiring.

( and don't hesitate to propose some mechanics that you can imagine in this context )

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Tue, 11/08/2011 - 20:59
#4
Geikamir
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sounde wrote: ...flashlights

sounde wrote:

...flashlights that run on peppermints?

For some reason that made me laugh.

I really like the general idea. I agree with sounde.

I think the hardest part will be balancing the randomness. Make sure it's not so disconnected from reality that players can't relate.

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Tue, 11/08/2011 - 21:35
#5
hotsoup
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It should be a rule-building

It should be a rule-building game, like Fluxx. Only more in-depth, and it's harder to change the rules. Maybe the players are competing to be the first one to escape the collective dream, and they use willpower to alter the dream's makeup so that it will affect the other player's phobias more. That's not a half bad name either, Phobia.

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Tue, 11/08/2011 - 23:29
#6
bonsaigames
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Thumbs up!

hotsoup wrote:
It should be a rule-building game, like Fluxx. Only more in-depth, and it's harder to change the rules. Maybe the players are competing to be the first one to escape the collective dream, and they use willpower to alter the dream's makeup so that it will affect the other player's phobias more. That's not a half bad name either, Phobia.

Top rate idea hotsoup!!

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Wed, 11/09/2011 - 05:40
#7
sounde
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and/or

Okay. I need some basic questions answered. :)

Number of players?
Escape from the nightmare together or throw the others under the bus? That is... Cooperative or fully competitive?
Head down analytical or face-to-face high interaction some social/human-determined element?

hotsoup wrote:
It should be a rule-building game, like Fluxx. Only more in-depth, and it's harder to change the rules. Maybe the players are competing to be the first one to escape the collective dream, and they use willpower to alter the dream's makeup so that it will affect the other player's phobias more. That's not a half bad name either, Phobia.

I was thinking something similar, but in reverse...
That there would be a sort of rule (dream logic) discovering element. (a la Mastermind or Confusion or Zendo? Clue?)
That would probably mean you'd need a "Shadow" player.

If ONE part of it was VERY mastermind-like ... getting closer/further from some combination (tuning your flashlight - with different sources(?)) could make your light more or less powerful (in combat? in light casting range).
Just babbling here... but... if you're talking about a time/round limit and a certain limited number of actions per round... trying different combinations could get the player to a more powerful state but eat up valuable time. One of those interesting balances... "Should I push forward in my weak state or use valuable time to power up?" "I'm too weak to move into this next challenge, but I don't have time to sit here puzzling this out!"
For easier/more difficult games the combination could use fewer/more elements.

I like rule-building as well, maybe you don't need a "Shadow" player.
Maybe the players make rules for each other -- so you get both rule-buildup and rule-discovery.

This all really depends on the questions at the top.

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Wed, 11/09/2011 - 11:16
#8
le_renard
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Great feedbacks and ideas

Great feedbacks and ideas !

I'd like this to be a 2-4 players game. In a 2 players game, the idea of Sleeper vs. Shadow seemed attractive because of the possibility of something asymetrical. Easy to learn game but with some difficult choices to make.

I was thinking about a Shadow player at first.

What I like in the previous posts :
- the idea of a rule-building game... unfortunately I never played Fluxx but I have given a look a the rules and some cards on BGG and it looks like a fun-packed game... maybe a little too chaotic ?
- personal phobias : (players have phobia cards dealt at the beginning of the game that could affect the game ? / other players can pull some lever that play on that field...)
- Phobia as a name : Hypnophobia to keep it intricate ?
- Escape from the collective dream and start altering the rules, etc...
- collecting some resources to power your torch/light source.... completing a certain combination giving you different ranges/effects/etc...

Do you picture this game as a card game, a tile placement game ( random draw of the next room/location that you place on the ever evolving board.. maybe hex tiles ? ) ?

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Wed, 11/09/2011 - 12:12
#9
drktron
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Very interesting discussion

Very interesting discussion and there are a lot of great ideas here. Coincidentally I am working on a game with this very theme called Strangemares. Each player is racing to overcome their nightmares, find their true reality and wake up. To me, the fluid realities in a dream state lent themselves to a card based game that could more easily mirror the ebb and flow of dreams. So mechanically my design differs a good deal from yours. It is a deck building/sequencing game where various nightmare cards are inserted into the players decks and must be purged. So each turn players go through a sleep cycle: laying a number of cards face up (REM) and drawing a number of cards into their hand (awareness). These amounts are related, the more aware you are the more in your hand but less in your REM and vice versa. The player must utilize the cards in their hand to manipulate the cards in his REM, changing its sequence and/or composition to remove nightmare cards in the sequence. Each nightmare has unique requirements to remove it. Overcoming nightmares enables players to gain key objects that are used to open doorways and ultimately escape their strangemare and win.
Anyway, I'm interested to see your take on this theme. Good luck :)

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Wed, 11/09/2011 - 12:31
#10
Orangebeard
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Light and Dark?

I am picturing a 2 player card game; shadow (dark) deck vs. dreamer (light) deck for example. Between the players is a 5x5 or 6x6 grid of card sized spaces; the light player is attempting to create a card path from their side of the grid to the other (moving through the dream) while the shadow player attempts to block them (paralyze them with fear). In some respects, this might look like a game of Go or possibly Chinese Checkers with only 2 colors.

Each player plays cards on the grid (starting on their edge) and builds off of those cards to create a path; the ability to play a card may be a function of what is already in play or perhaps limited by some kind of resource; for example, the shadow player lays down a "Dark Forest" card or "Ghostly Sounds" card that block the dreamer; to overcome these cards (ie play a light card over them) the dreamer needs to have a card that allows passage or perhaps have a certain level of resource available. Again, as an example, each dark card could have a Fear Level (1 for something silly, 10 for something terrifying); to counter this, light cards could provide a Confidence Level (1 for a book of matches, 10 for the Dream Bazooka); if the light player has enough confidence to overcome the fear, then they can move forward. If not, they must find another way or increase their confidence.

to add some twists, the shadow player might have a phobia card they can play on the dreamer to make them more susceptible to certain fears; the dreamer might have "dream equipment" that reduces fear. this would certainly lend itself more to a deck building theme, but could generalized and used with a fixed deck.

with regard to strategy, the dreamer may only be able to use cards that are connected to the same path; this would encourage the shadow player to play cards that cut the dreamers path; in response, the dreamer would seek to isolate their "fears" so they can be overcome one at a time rather than facing many scary things at once.

this is an exciting idea - best of luck with your design!

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Wed, 11/09/2011 - 12:40
#11
le_renard
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nice ideas !

drktron wrote:
Very interesting discussion and there are a lot of great ideas here. Coincidentally I am working on a game with this very theme called Strangemares.

OK... it's the very same theme ! The story of my (young) game-designing life ! ^^ thanks for exposing it here too !

@Orangebeard : great ideas there too ! Some similarities with what I implemented in the first iteration of the game ( leading me to a design very close to Fearsome Floors with a twist... )... darkness trails surrounding the Dreamer/Sleeper, etc...

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Thu, 11/10/2011 - 18:08
#12
bonsaigames
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Similar Game Design

le_renard wrote:
drktron wrote:
Very interesting discussion and there are a lot of great ideas here. Coincidentally I am working on a game with this very theme called Strangemares.

OK... it's the very same theme ! The story of my (young) game-designing life ! ^^ thanks for exposing it here too !

@Orangebeard : great ideas there too ! Some similarities with what I implemented in the first iteration of the game ( leading me to a design very close to Fearsome Floors with a twist... )... darkness trails surrounding the Dreamer/Sleeper, etc...

This is one of the great things about game design... there are a million right ways to represent a theme and by submitting as many as possible and collaborating with others you can build the one that is most elegant and engaging.

Taking a page from the Zynga playbook; maybe instead of players randomly drawing a phobia they could fight their own real life phobias and nightmares. This adds a layer of personal psychology to the game.

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Thu, 11/10/2011 - 21:06
#13
le_renard
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bonsaigames wrote:Taking a

bonsaigames wrote:
Taking a page from the Zynga playbook; maybe instead of players randomly drawing a phobia they could fight their own real life phobias and nightmares. This adds a layer of personal psychology to the game.

I had started interviewing people around me about their phobias and nightmares to use it in the game ! Funny to read this !

I'm not sure right now about how I could use these "personal" phobias throughout the game, but that would be great.

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