Skip to Content

Infinite: The card Game Idea

9 replies [Last post]
cybulskina
Offline
Joined: 10/08/2015

What is this all about? Rules?
This was an idea I was stirring around in my head for awhile and finally wanted to finish the design, prototype and hopefully publish. If anyone is interested in giving ideas, that would be awesome.

cybulskina
Offline
Joined: 10/08/2015
So what's it all about?

(Skip to IDEAs If you want to see where I am in the design process)
This is a card game of Infinite* expansion.. that's the idea anyway.
I've looked around and there are game's similar but they lack the basic mechanic for making them infinity expandable.

Games like: The duke (an excellent game), For the Crown (second edition) and Knightmare Chess (Steve Jackson Games) all touch on this idea but are limited.. which I will explain here.

This idea will allow for multiple games, game types and players, game makers and thinkers alike to have fun in a way that hasn't been approached before.

Similar to Magic: The Gathering, this game will have many cards, But unlike Magic, the cards in Infinite* will each have a pair. In other words you won't be at a disadvantage for not having an equal or as powerful of a card because your opponent will have an opportunity to use the same card!

So if you have ever heard of Fairy chess pieces or chess variations this may sound familiar. It was in the search of a Meta game for chess that I discovered an opportunity to create just such a game.

Problems arise: namely card/piece creation.
Solution #1: make a better notation, and make it look cool.
Well, what kind of notations are there already?
Partlett's movement Notation (Wikipedia)
Ralph Betza's "funny notation" (also Wikipedia)

these are terrific, but not as efficient and expandable. For example: mfwcfF in Ralph Betza's "funny notation" describes a chess pawn.. without describing en passant AND it's initial double move!

Well we can't have that.. especially when having special powers is what makes pieces so cool.

(IDEAS)
Problem: card/piece creation
So Solution #1: How to:
1. Grid idea
This is simple, instead of algebraic notation, which is basically abbreviated sentences, use a picture. (picture's worth a 1000 words)
2. Symbols
One symbol can represent multiple ideas (such as movement or capture) depending on which grid spot it's on.
3. Numbers
This can describe a symbol's quantity
4. Colors
I was hoping to use this, not to define mechanics, but elemental variation and "fun" as it were to make it a bit more collectible and rock-paper-scissors style.

Problem: size/efficiency
With all of these ideas or symbols on one card, also small enough to be a piece on the board.. tough.

Solution: Chinese? Japanese? For the Crown style? limit the types of cards?
Well here i'm interested in ideas. I've created art for basic pieces and for 2 inch by 2 inch cards the symbols become incredibly small. I've been using a 5 by 5 grid. We could definitely use 3 by 3 for that kind of piece. But thinking ahead, complicated pieces.. how do we fit all that info and variant info on one card?
One solution is to make eventual limitations. the idea was when a symbol for a new mechanic that is based on previous ideas or concepts it would be a combination of those symbols. basic idea. Open circle for single step. Cross for capture. combine and there you go! single step and capture. but then it's the same problem with the original notations, lots of symbols not too efficient.

Anyway, long post but just ideas floating around.
*Name pending

cybulskina
Offline
Joined: 10/08/2015
Rules to game idea #1

Alright, so I started with a particular chess variation in mind, but I got to thinking I would love to have it be mixable. so the game rules were ideas and card creation rules were things I wanted to limit (or notice) about types of pieces ( i have split this comment into two parts. look below for Rules for card Creation)

(this is ONE particular game type. Many (obviously) exist.)
GAME rules
Objective:
Capture all Royal pieces, or objective pieces (flag, castle, etc.)
Tournament style would, i'm guessing the most popular game play. This would hopefully evolve as the game is played. CREATIVITY IS LOVED.

But for specifics: In this first Play testing:
Capture the king or Royal piece (a piece that has royal value, attributed to starting with 1 piece)

Rule #2
When you fight, you fight the same armies, With Two and only Two exceptions.
Exception 1
Your king may be unique BUT equal strength to opposing King
Exception 2
Your Queen may be Unique BUT in equal Strength to opposing Queen

(Problem: determining Equal Strength
Solution: create a ranking system that determines how strong new pieces are
attempts to the solution to this problem are few in number.
my guess is ideas will come as play testing occurs.
Also, maybe having a point system applied as symbols are added to pieces.. so like +1 point for being able to move forward 1.)

Rule #3
The board shall be:
10 by 10 squares large.
(I like 16 by 16, but it takes a full table (32" square board is pretty big))

Rule #4
Symmetry
The Royal pieces do not follow symmetry.
All other pieces follow symmetry in two directions:
Left and Right; dividing your army in half left and right.
Opposition; your army is identical to the opposition.

Suggestion or way to do Rule #4
All pieces come in Pairs, so when you get a "pack" of cards it will always come with a double, one for you, one for your opponent. In other words, all packs come playable out of the package. You don't need certain packs to play with other packs.. it's that simple!

Rule #5
Army Creation
Players will take turns picking units/troops/pieces from their supply and putting them into battle. After all of the army is created, the next player in turn order goes first! Players take turns moving/activation/action-ing 1 piece at a time.

Suggestion or way to do Rule #5
I thought i'd make armies based on classes of pieces or raked pieces.
1. Royal
2. Clerical
3. Offensive
4. Defensive
5. Weak or pawns
for a chess like game make many weak or pawn level pieces. with equal number of the other pieces. Also pawns could correspond to the different ranks. A simple system of determining ranks of pieces would be:
1. you must have each type of piece
2. Each piece of rank 1 through 4 must have a corresponding pawn.
3. Limit 40? 20? pieces in a fight.
4. pawns must correspond to their upper rank by being in front of their type.

cybulskina
Offline
Joined: 10/08/2015
Rules to Card Creation

These are intentionally vague, I hope to get more ideas
(a terrific site I found was: http://www.chessvariants.org/piececlopedia.dir/taxonomy.html
)
CARD creation rules
Rule #1
No HEALTH! This will allow to keep things at a core and stop numbers from attacking the game mechanics. However there are many many things or possible ideas
(although... ;)

Rule #2
Size starts off at 2" size. In other words expansions could have bigger or weirder sized pieces

Rule #3
Whatever you think a piece can do on a board.. it can. Just tell it to.

So what are some base base base ideas?

Movement
Capturing
change of powers/abilities during the game
Kinetics or ability to effect other pieces besides capture
Abilities based on Number/type/condition of other pieces on the board

**Remember no health! this is helpful cause whats the point of saying: oh it's partly dead, or super powered? Just say that and then the piece is either Alive, Dead, or Other. NAME the OTHER. if you apply an arbitrary number to the other it stops from the creation of other brilliant concepts.***
(I know that it can all be boiled down to numbers, that's not the point. Chess can be boiled down to numbers in a computer program. But again this is attempting to allow for other ideas)

Defensive positions -again no health, rather, based on position on board or other characteristics
Relationships to other pieces (this includes things like Castling)
Value (not necessarily a number but more likely a type or categorizing attribute)
Changing the Board
Changing other pieces
changing the Rules during the game
height (underground, level, sky)
Element (earth, wind fire etc.)
and so much more...

These are intentionally not rules but suggestions.
Again this game is angled towards game makers, but shareable and playable with players as well. But to get into the game, one usually has to come up with ideas mechanics. In other words, this game promotes creating mechanics to cards!

cybulskina
Offline
Joined: 10/08/2015
Who is this game directed toward?

Game makers
Players
Thinkers
Strategists
Tacticians
Creators

questccg
questccg's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/16/2011
First of all...

How is this game pronounced:

A> In-fin-nit-ee

B> In-fin-nite

Please let me know which one is MORE appropriate!

Masacroso
Masacroso's picture
Offline
Joined: 05/05/2014
Some time ago I was designing

Some time ago I was designing the base for a pure virtual card game... based on infinite decks.

The cards are defined trough probability and evolution of distribution of probability (this lead, as some mathematicians shows to me, to a Dirichlet distribution with high level of stochasticity, fortunately).

It is trascendental to change from a infinite setup to a finite one or viceversa, as the history of science shows.

In the same time I was reading a very interesting book of the professor of the creator of Magic The Gathering about math and probability, more exactly it is about generating functions (this book, if someone is interested, its free).

cybulskina
Offline
Joined: 10/08/2015
Pronunciation

I'm not sure :)
I guess Infinite instead of Infinity because there were a couple really old games called infinity and I was worried about copyright infringement... I'd like to do "Infinite" or your "B" answer haha

cybulskina
Offline
Joined: 10/08/2015
Wow cool Ideas

Masacroso wrote:
The cards are defined trough probability and evolution of distribution of probability (this lead, [as some mathematicians shows to me](http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/1275035/evolution-of-a-discrete-...), to a Dirichlet distribution with high level of stochasticity, fortunately).

This sounds really cool. Sounds a bit like DVORAK but with numbers haha.

I'm really vague in the above comments but I'm putting more specific details as soon as I can..

(I haven't taken a stats class yet.)

Also, I'm sure people could come up with functions and models out of this game.

X3M
X3M's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/28/2013
Masacroso wrote:Some time ago

Masacroso wrote:
Some time ago I was designing the base for a pure virtual card game... based on infinite decks.

The cards are defined trough probability and evolution of distribution of probability (this lead, [as some mathematicians shows to me](http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/1275035/evolution-of-a-discrete-...), to a Dirichlet distribution with high level of stochasticity, fortunately).

It is trascendental to change from a infinite setup to a finite one or viceversa, as the history of science shows.

In the same time I was reading a very interesting book of the professor of the creator of Magic The Gathering about math and probability, more exactly it is about generating functions ([this](https://www.math.upenn.edu/~wilf/gfologyLinked2.pdf) book, if someone is interested, its free).

It is a shame you are not here more often. You always have the cool math stuff.

To keep balance in the game, but also distribution of the right cards for each player. This adjustment in the probability is the best option a designer has. That is my opinion.

Syndicate content


forum | by Dr. Radut