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Making guards move on their own

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Kyle Forrest
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Joined: 05/17/2019

Okay... one of the games i am working on is working under the title 'Heist'

Heist is a competitive stealth / thieving game set on the grounds of a large residential compound (think the Mansion scene in True Lies). All players take the form of a different thief trying to sneak onto the compound to steal some form of valuable or priceless artifact. The mansion is home to a variety of valuables (priceless art, important data files, valuable jewelery, etc) and no one thief knows whether the other thieves are after the same things as they are, or something different.

The primary mechanic in the game is that actions create noise. Every action the thieves take whether it be movement, breaking a window, picking a lock, throwing a grappling hook onto the roof, etc makes noise; with different types of actions making different levels of noise. This noise attracts the guards, and if the guards come across evidence that something is wrong (an unconscious guard, a broken window, a grappling hook and rope hanging from the roof) the alert level of the guard rises, and puts more guards on the board.

To make the map large enough i am looking at using a multiple grid map. The whole map is made up of small squares of roughly 20mm each, and 9 small squares make 1 medium square of 60 mm, while 9 medium squares make 1 large square of 180 mm. The whole map is roughly 6 large squares high by 8 large squares wide (approximately 42" high by 54" wide)

Okay, with all that said. The chief problem i am coming up against is how to effectively move the guards around the board so that they don't bunch up and are unpredictable enough so as to make players have to change their plans and strategies on the fly. To make the game challenging i feel i need a combination of sentries (guards that don't move), patrols (guards or dogs that cover large areas or sections of the map) and regular guards (who walk back and forth between two fixed points).

I need to figure an easy way for guards to move from area to area on a fixed path, yet every once in a while either turn and head the other way, or stop to light a cigarette. I also need to find a way to make it so the patrols don't bunch together ... i need to the guards to spread out, but still have gaps in their patrol zones which the thieves can exploit.

wob
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Joined: 06/09/2017
the pre programmed patrols

the pre programmed patrols should be fairly easy if you are inside the mansion. they can simply follow the corridors until they hit a mark then they turn around.

another option may be some kind of gm. a head security guard in the office that the other players are trying to beat.

Fri
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Old thread about ai movement.

Here is an older thread that we talked about ai movement in: https://www.bgdf.com/forum/game-creation/mechanics/chased-ai

Good luck with your game.

Kyle Forrest
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Joined: 05/17/2019
Thanks Fri I checked out that

Thanks Fri

I checked out that thread and i didn't find it all that valuable. For the most part it seemed focused on a computer based algorithm ... which obviously is not much use to me.

I do understand what they were getting at with talking about getting the guard to head where they 'think' the player is ... but i kind of already have that covered with my noise mechanic. My primary struggle is with randomizing the way guards move. I cant have the guards just move along in easy to determine fixed patterns all the time ... as that makes for a game that works the same every single time (and that would be boring)

I have also played Burgle Brothers before (which i totally suck at) and it is sort of what i am looking for, but i need it on a grander scale that works on a much bigger map and with multiple types of guards.

Tim Edwards
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Joined: 07/30/2015
How about:Guards move along

How about:

Guards move along a fixed path of squares, according to a dice roll. Certain squares trigger special guard actions. When you land on one of these, you draw a card. The guard might
Change direction (the special squares could be at junctions - and / or the guard just turns around)
Look in a particular direction
Stop for a smoke
Etc

That would make guards pretty unpredictable whilst not moving around like weird random osmotic bots.

questccg
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I really like Tim's IDEA!

Tim Edwards wrote:
...Guards move along a fixed path of squares, according to a dice roll. Certain squares trigger special guard actions. When you land on one of these, you draw a card...

An INTELLIGENT implementation of the "Roll & Move" mechanic that is NOT boring but more like a "Patrol Route" with Events. And the active Event can stay until "resolved".

Tim Edwards wrote:
...The guard might:
+ Change direction (the special squares could be at junctions - and / or the guard just turns around)
+ Look in a particular direction
+ Stop for a smoke

To this I might add:

  • Re-trace two (2) dice rolls in the opposite direction (because he may have heard a noise).
  • Run down a hallway by rolling four (4) dice simultaneously.
  • etc.

Tim Edwards wrote:
That would make guards pretty unpredictable whilst not moving around like weird random osmotic bots.

I think the idea is SMART, CLEVER and "simple" enough that you could implement it with not so much difficulties.

pelle
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One simple mechanic that I

One simple mechanic that I and others have used is to have two colors of arrows printed on the board, say black and white. Each turn you draw a card or roll a die for what color the guards will follow, with one type being more common (say, use black arrows 67% of the time). You can of course use any number of different arrows to mix things up, and it is also possible to divide the guards into different groups that have different movement preferences (i.e. different distributions of what color of arrow they choose to follow). And it can probably be combined somehow with going towards noise as well, but it is not something I have tried.

The scripted enemies in Ambush! sometimes use instructions like "if US soldiers visible in ... then move to X12, otherwise move to X13" and things like that, which makes them usually just follow a scripted path, but every now and then they switch over to an alternative path depending on where the player's soldiers are. Great system, but very heavy and time-consuming for the player, even if the enemy movement rules are very easy to understand.

Jay103
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Just wanted to say that your

Just wanted to say that your game board is very, very large. Few tables could fit that. The idea sounds fun, though.

Kyle Forrest
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pelle wrote:One simple

pelle wrote:
One simple mechanic that I and others have used is to have two colors of arrows printed on the board, say black and white. Each turn you draw a card or roll a die for what color the guards will follow, with one type being more common (say, use black arrows 67% of the time). You can of course use any number of different arrows to mix things up, and it is also possible to divide the guards into different groups that have different movement preferences (i.e. different distributions of what color of arrow they choose to follow). And it can probably be combined somehow with going towards noise as well, but it is not something I have tried.

I like this idea. It think if i combined it with an enemy selection method sort of like Zombicide. That way drawing one card would direct all the blue guards to head towards their black arrows, all of the yellow guards to head towards their white arrows and the green guards don't move this round,and the next card would have the blue guards continue moving towards their black arrows, the yellow guards to turn around and head towards their black arrows, and the green guards to move twice towards their white arrows. This way if a single guard is drawn off track towards a noise and they find nothing it eventually pulls them back on track.

pelle wrote:
Great system, but very heavy and time-consuming for the player, even if the enemy movement rules are very easy to understand.

I have never played Ambush!, but your exactly right it what i worry about. I need to find a way to make it work, but it has to be simple enough that it does not take up very much of the player's turn. It needs to be easily implemented on a large scale.

larienna
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"Burgle bro" has a seeking

"Burgle bro" has a seeking guard mechanism. Else if each space represents a large area, a card could "Patrol" a single space. Else the "Ninja scorpion clan" have a patrolling guard that moves around the map in addition to other guards.

There is also that video game app card game called "Card Thief" It's a bit more abstract, but it could spawn inspiration. Try it, it's a fremium game.

Jay103
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Kyle Forrest wrote:but it has

Kyle Forrest wrote:
but it has to be simple enough that it does not take up very much of the player's turn. It needs to be easily implemented on a large scale.

Well, yes and no.

You don't want the players spending a lot of time doing something boring. But if the guard movement is IMPORTANT.. if the movement has suspense to it, where the players are holding their breath that they don't get caught on this next roll.. well, that's part of the game. It's fun.

A game where at the end of each turn you add 2 blue and 1 red cube to each enemy stack, and then trade up 3 blues for a green, 2 greens for a red.. that's not fun.

questccg
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Hmm... Could be FUN too, no?

Jay103 wrote:
...A game where at the end of each turn you add 2 blue and 1 red cube to each enemy stack, and then trade up 3 blues for a green, 2 greens for a red.. that's not fun.

Are you referring to "Century Spice Road"??? Where each turn you get a specific amount of certain spices and then you use cards to TRADE for other spices which are more valuable?? And then in turn, you can trade for victory point cards. At the end, it's the player with the most victory points who wins!

I think it's a interesting game. All be it a bit "simple", here is the BGG:

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/209685/century-spice-road

Was that what you were thinking of @Jason???

Jay103
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I literally made that up as I

I literally made that up as I was typing, but I know there are games like that out there...

FrankM
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Pointing the way

Pelle and Kyle’s idea with the arrows sounds like the way to go, though I’d add a symbol for pausing.

Each type of guard can have a “preferred” color, which can be used to establish their typical routes.

The only problem is getting individual guards to stop for smoke breaks of false noises.

If each guard has a type and a number, a single die can indicate which guards follow a second card for their directions.

A card might have something like:

Perimeter guards: green
Tower guards: blue
Interior guards: red
Vault guards: white

The player rolls a “3” so Perimeter Guard 3, Tower Guard 3, Interior Guard 3 and Vault Guard 3 follow a second card’s colors. Most of the time at least some of them will be doing to the same color as the main group.

larienna
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When you talk arrows, it

When you talk arrows, it reminds me of Arkham Horror 2nd edition monster movement system.

Kyle Forrest
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Joined: 05/17/2019
I like alot of these ideas...

I like alot of these ideas... the arrows idea especially.

Since i am using movement squares i could do something along the lines of placing movement arrows on the center of the medium sized squares and then roll a dice to determine directional movement.

Example:

The rooftop blue guard patrols the top of the building. This area is made up of a total of 9 medium sized squares (3 high and 3 wide). The preferred path for him is walking in a circle, down one side and back up the other. If he starts his turn in the upper left most square he rolls a die and on a 1-5 he heads south, on a 6-7 he heads east and on a 8 he stays still. The odds are he will stay to his path, but this is not a sure thing.

Lets say he rolls a 4 and heads south. The thief is now going to try and approach the building from the north side.

The guard is in the center western area of his patrol zone. If he rolls 1-4 he heads south, 5-6 he heads east to the center of the map, 7 he heads back north and 8 he stands still.

He rolls a 5, which means he heads to the center of the map. This could be bad for the thief as it will take him at least a few turns to sprint across the open area to the windows, cut the glass, deactivate the alarm, open the window and climb inside before the guard is back in a position to see him.

I realize now that i failed to mention when i was describing the game is that i had planned on making the actions based on a one-turn action delay system. That way the action you take on your turn is the card you played on the previous turn. This way you have to anticipate what the guards are going to do.

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