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Mini-Dungeon Crawl (Card Game)

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Wed, 10/05/2011 - 22:54
MOON-E
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Joined: 08/29/2011

I've made games before through The Game Crafter, but all are too big and complex to reasonably sell online, so I've been looking for a game that's less component heavy.

The idea I came up with (called "Cardboard Dungeon") is basically an entire dungeon crawler made up of cards. The game would have three decks; a "Dungeon" deck to represent different tiles in the dungeon, an "Encounter" deck to represent enemies, and a "Loot" deck to represent the different things players find.

The main game mechanic is deck building. Each player would start with a deck made up of a few set cards. Each turn, they would explore the dungeon and draw a new dungeon card to place on the board, which would tell them what encounters/loot/etc. they've found. When they encounter an enemy, they flip the top card of their deck, "War" style (loot and monsters have numerical values). If they win, they get more loot. If the lose, they get a wound card, which is basically a "0" that clogs up their deck.

For variety, you can add all sorts of different types of loot. Cash cards could be worth nothing but can be traded in to a shop. Equipment cards could stay on the table and give you a passive or one-time bonus. Monsters could also have unique effects, as well as boss monsters, etc.

Each time you reach the "exit", the level is shuffled away and you start again, but add in new dungeon cards, monster cards, and loot cards to the mix, slowly increasing the difficulty.

So, what do you guys think? Also, are there any other games with a similar concept?

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Wed, 10/05/2011 - 23:56
#1
Relexx
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Sounds Interesting

I have seen games that work as a "dungeon crawl" that are card based, however I have never come across a game that has the war mechanic to resolve actions. Be that it may, I do not collect lots of games. Having your own deck is almost deck building esc. I will be interested in seeing your progress on this.

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Thu, 10/06/2011 - 03:20
#2
JaffetC
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simple twist on deckbuilding games...

id be interested in looking into that if it works properly... how ever the closest thing i can think of is Thunderstone...

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Thu, 10/06/2011 - 03:25
#3
MOON-E
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This game would definitely

This game would definitely take inspiration from a number of other deck building games, the difference being that while most deck building games focus around the actual building of a deck through planned actions, the cards you get in this game would be more random, focusing more around specific actions "in the dungeon". Yes, it requires a little less strategy, but it's also meant to be a lighter game.

What exactly do you mean by "works properly"? Or rather, what kinds of problems do you see arising?

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Thu, 10/06/2011 - 06:37
#4
JaffetC
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MOON-E wrote:This game would

MOON-E wrote:
This game would definitely take inspiration from a number of other deck building games, the difference being that while most deck building games focus around the actual building of a deck through planned actions, the cards you get in this game would be more random, focusing more around specific actions "in the dungeon". Yes, it requires a little less strategy, but it's also meant to be a lighter game.

What exactly do you mean by "works properly"? Or rather, what kinds of problems do you see arising?

Well lets say for example, because the game is random, you hit a skew of numbers that means you will always lose the "war" against the dungeon. So unless the loot cards give you higher numbers than the ones found in the dungeon you could end up with games where players just lose to the deck. It sounds like a fun game for sure, and i like the idea behind it, i was just wondering if the randomization would lead to many not to many fun times... Not to mention if the players always beat the dungeon then the game is toppled towards the players and not the dungeon. Maybe some form of balance? and if so what would that balance be?

Take for example Resident Evil: Deck Building Game. You do focus on building a deck, However you can only win the game by defeating the boss infected found within the mansion. When not playing "Professional" players will take 10+ turns before they ever head into the mansion. The deck starts you off with max 20 points of damage. however on average your fighting Infected between 25-35 health. So this makes players not want to travel into the mansion. Also because of the random factor in pro mode you tend to die more often than you would like.

Puzzle strike turns Deck building games into a player vs. player combat game where each player basically has a timer over their heads. It makes players attack each other instantly, there aren't many turns where players can wait until somebody does something because players are forced to do something by their 10th point of damage.

Thunderstone seems like a nifty dungeon explore / deck builder game, however everything is already laid out on the table so its simpler to know when what will happen.

Quarriors besides the luck of the die roll, you usually can tell what cards to go after since you tend to sit across the a random set of 7(?) cards that both players get to collect.

Overall the mechanic of Deck Building as introduced by Rio Grande Games with Dominion has shown that there tends to be minimal interaction between players. However there is insane amounts of interaction between the player and their deck. Obviously each game is different and each one brings something new to the table... I would like to see this game in action. Im not dissing it, im not saying itll be a bad game, what im saying is, how exactly will it work once all the cards are put together.

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Thu, 10/06/2011 - 11:35
#5
MOON-E
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I didn't think you were

I didn't think you were dissing it, I was just curious as to what you were thinking.

You bring up some good points. I intend to counter balance the random aspect in a few ways.

First, battles aren't strictly win/lose. Players can decide, after each card flip, wether or not they want to keep battling or cut their losses. The longer they stay in, the better their chances are of defeating the monster (their total is cumulative) but the more wound cards they'll be inflicted. This allows players to at least have some say in when they want to fight.

Second, certain cards can help players make better informed decisions on whether or not they should battle. Has anyone played Alien Hotshots? It's a children's game that's basically a war varient. In the game, one of the more interesting mechanics involves special modifier cards that can augment the cards that are thrown. These would provide the player with some security as to wether or not they're in a good position to fight.

Third, and perhaps most important, the deck is "rigged" with difficulty. Right now, I'm planning to have three "levels" of difficulty. Each time you move up a level, the monsters get tougher, but the loot gets better, much like it would in a dungeon crawler video game. While the results are still random, the pool is tailored to your current point in the game. This not only encourages players to always go for new items, but also makes "trashing" (removing outdated cards from your deck) even more important. Much like in war, your low cards will quickly become a liability, but unlike in war, you can afford to get rid of them.

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Thu, 10/06/2011 - 20:28
#6
JaffetC
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MOON-E wrote:I didn't think

MOON-E wrote:
I didn't think you were dissing it, I was just curious as to what you were thinking.

You bring up some good points. I intend to counter balance the random aspect in a few ways.

First, battles aren't strictly win/lose. Players can decide, after each card flip, wether or not they want to keep battling or cut their losses. The longer they stay in, the better their chances are of defeating the monster (their total is cumulative) but the more wound cards they'll be inflicted. This allows players to at least have some say in when they want to fight.

Second, certain cards can help players make better informed decisions on whether or not they should battle. Has anyone played Alien Hotshots? It's a children's game that's basically a war varient. In the game, one of the more interesting mechanics involves special modifier cards that can augment the cards that are thrown. These would provide the player with some security as to wether or not they're in a good position to fight.

Third, and perhaps most important, the deck is "rigged" with difficulty. Right now, I'm planning to have three "levels" of difficulty. Each time you move up a level, the monsters get tougher, but the loot gets better, much like it would in a dungeon crawler video game. While the results are still random, the pool is tailored to your current point in the game. This not only encourages players to always go for new items, but also makes "trashing" (removing outdated cards from your deck) even more important. Much like in war, your low cards will quickly become a liability, but unlike in war, you can afford to get rid of them.

so as the game progress the player will have the win percentage increase... so lets say the game starts with players at 30% and Deck at 70%, the mid game would end up 50%/50% and the end game would be 70% player, and only 30% for the deck. With the added benefit that you want to stay in battles longer since you do have a 40% change win rate.

If that is the case then wouldn't wound cards going into the deck make those numbers harder to deal with? also will there be alternative ways to trash cards, for example end of the turn your allowed to trash 1 card. or something... How far into the development are you for the game? will you have a prototype PDF for players to playtest?

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Thu, 10/06/2011 - 21:38
#7
MOON-E
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JaffetC wrote:so as the game

JaffetC wrote:
so as the game progress the player will have the win percentage increase... so lets say the game starts with players at 30% and Deck at 70%, the mid game would end up 50%/50% and the end game would be 70% player, and only 30% for the deck. With the added benefit that you want to stay in battles longer since you do have a 40% change win rate.

If that is the case then wouldn't wound cards going into the deck make those numbers harder to deal with? also will there be alternative ways to trash cards, for example end of the turn your allowed to trash 1 card. or something... How far into the development are you for the game? will you have a prototype PDF for players to playtest?

Each level increases the power of the cards available, not the win percentage. For example, the range of cards in level one may be 1-5, while level 2 might be 4-7, and level 3: 8-10. The caliber of enemies will also increase to match the new cards available. Since players will play multiple "floors" per level, they'll see mini win % curves in each level.

Let me see if I can explain this more clearly: the game will be split up into 9 floors, 3 in each level. During the first floor, players have a relatively weak deck since they haven't acquired any loot. On the second floor, they might break even. By the third floor, they'll be fully equipped for that level of difficulty. But once they move onto the next level, their win percentage drops down again since the enemies become harder, and they go through the cycle again. This lets players feel accomplished while keeping the pressure on.

There will be multiple ways to trash cards as well as to get rid of wound cards. I'm very early in development right now, I'm basically using this thread to see if such a concept seems plausible/hasn't been done before. I can have a basic outline done soon, but specific card ratios will take longer. I'll definitely post a pdf for play testing once i've developed the game a little further.

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