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New abstract game : Damkolo

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hulken
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Joined: 04/18/2009
I do not think you understand

I do not think you understand what I am saying, This is the exact thing I am talking about.

And if the playboard is set up correctly the second player do not stand a chance. there will be 6 grey pawns and 6 black pawns in each collor. So if I set it up correctly I will have the advantage simply du to the fact I am starting.

ichbin
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Joined: 09/21/2010
What do you mean by...

hulken wrote:
I do not think you understand what I am saying, This is the exact thing I am talking about.

And if the playboard is set up correctly the second player do not stand a chance. there will be 6 grey pawns and 6 black pawns in each collor. So if I set it up correctly I will have the advantage simply du to the fact I am starting.

What do you mean by "the playboard set up correctly"?

hulken
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Joined: 04/18/2009
I mean the same as I said in

I mean the same as I said in the last post, in the most extreme case my first move will trigger a re-captur secuence that wil end with me capturing the last of my oponents pice.

So simply put in extren cases due to random this will hapen. But my point is that a player can make this almost every time. or atleast he should be able to make somthing very close to it. so that means the layer to make the first move is the winner.

ichbin
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Joined: 09/21/2010
Go ahead!

hulken wrote:
I mean the same as I said in the last post, in the most extreme case my first move will trigger a re-captur secuence that wil end with me capturing the last of my oponents pice.

So simply put in extren cases due to random this will hapen. But my point is that a player can make this almost every time. or atleast he should be able to make somthing very close to it. so that means the layer to make the first move is the winner.

Here I draw a picture of part of the board. It will take me more time to build ALL the board because I have to calculate all what it implies.

http://www.bgdf.com/sites/default/files/images/blackfirst.JPG

So the black is the first player. I want you to analyze only the yellow territory.
Do not forget :
- no jumping is allowed (my first rule)
- recapture is mandatory

Go! Solve it!

Good luck!

hulken
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Joined: 04/18/2009
Well a pre-setup board is

Well a pre-setup board randomly generated like this is often suboptimal. And becaus it is suboptimal it means one or both players placed there pawns wrong.

But after a quick glans I have B leading over grey with 3 vs 2 pawns. and b should be able to outmanuver gray.

I will use cordinated startin top left is 1,1

B captur at 1,1, w retake, b captur again, w retake, b captur again, w retake, b capture. Now I will describe the board. B is black E is empty, W is white.
1,1B 1,2E 1,3E
2,1E 2,2E 2,3W
3,1E 3,2W 3,3W 3,4E
4,1W 4,2W 4,3B 4,4E
5,1E 5,2B 5,3B 5,4B
6,4B
And now it is W´s turn to move, if W capturs b will retake leaving him 2 vs 1 and b will outmanuver W. If w moves B will set up a exchange and force W´s hand. B should unless he makes a mistake be able to outmanuver w prity easy.

Youre no jumping rule I do not understand, but I inturped it as B is not able to jump over anort B pice on the same color. So jumping over B pawns on read should be fine. If this is not the case then B made a bad setup and lost the game there.

If I understod the rule about no jumping wrong pleas explain it again and I will give it another go.

ichbin
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Joined: 09/21/2010
Retake with which pawn?

You wrote :

B captur at 1,1, w retake, b captur again, w retake, b captur again, w retake, b capture. Now I will describe the board. B is black E is empty, W is white.

White is going to retake. Ok.
Which pawn the white is going to retake with?
Do not forget that the black pawn (4,4) can not capture any pawn because no jump is allowed.
It seems to me that you are trying to ignore that my game as is designed can not be reduced to you capture-I recapture-you capture-I recapture and so on.
There are blocking-pawns like the white (3,3) in red square.
The recapture is mandatory.

hulken
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Joined: 04/18/2009
ichbin wrote:You wrote : B

ichbin wrote:
You wrote :

B captur at 1,1, w retake, b captur again, w retake, b captur again, w retake, b capture. Now I will describe the board. B is black E is empty, W is white.

White is going to retake. Ok.
Which pawn the white is going to retake with?
Do not forget that the black pawn (4,4) can not capture any pawn because no jump is allowed.
It seems to me that you are trying to ignore that my game as is designed can not be reduced to you capture-I recapture-you capture-I recapture and so on.
There are blocking-pawns like the white (3,3) in red square.
The recapture is mandatory.

Then I ask you one more time to explain the "no jumping rule". And if I misunderstod the rule then it is as I said in the begining. One or both players made a mistake in the setup.

Also in my captur and re-capture it do not mater the order of the moves becaus there is onley so manny W and B pices that can move to 1,1.

ichbin
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Joined: 09/21/2010
No jumping is allowed

Look at the picture blackfirst.jpg :

The black pawn (4,4) can not go to the square (2,2) even if the black pawn (4,4) can move as queenchess and from the same color.
Why?
Because there is a grey pawn in the red square (3,3)
If the square (3,3) was empty then the black (4,4) could capture the grey (2,2)

Other cases of no jumping :
grey (1,3) can not capture black (1,5) because the square between the 2 is not empty. So no jumping is allowed.
black (4,5) can not capture grey (2,3)
and so on

hulken
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Joined: 04/18/2009
Ok so aslong as anny players

Ok so aslong as anny players pice is in the way you can not jump. Then I would say black placed his pawns porly in the pictur you gave me. and also if I am to solv it I need the whole board becaus I might need to move/captur in some other color befor. But this do not change my inital thoughts about the game, it just gives the starting player more variables to consider, but youre "forced to retake" rule should help to simplyfy things for him.

ichbin
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Joined: 09/21/2010
Recapture mandatory

What is the meaning of the rule "recapture is mandatory"?
When one of the player initiate a capture process his opponent has to answer first to the capture of his pawn (if he has the conditions to do it : path cleared and he has at least one pawn to answer the challenge).
There are 2 kinds of turn :
- free move : you have no constraint other than your free choice
- forced move : it happen when you opponent capture one of your pawn (rule of recapture mandatory)
One of the way you can take a pawn from your opponent is to use the "trick" : you have a pawn blocking your capture so you use this pawn to capture another of your opponent and when the square is free then you can win one pawn more than your opponent.
That is why it is a bad move in the placement step to place your pawn in a square rounded by pawns of different colors (an "isolated square").
I hope that now you will understand that the first player has a very slim advantage.

hulken
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Joined: 04/18/2009
I understand the rules

I understand the rules completly now that you have explained the "no jumping rule" to me. But I still say first player have an advantage. But ither you do not understand what I am trying to say/explain or you just do not care ither way it is fine my me.

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