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New Game Review

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Gmcsph
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Joined: 12/14/2008

Hi,
I'm New here,and 75 years old,so please bear with me.
I have developed a Board Game that I, and many others
think is a Good Game.
At present it is in Pdf format,Print&Play.
There is a Good Quality Proto Type Available.
My Question is:
1 Where can I get this Reviewed?
2 Can I get this Play Tested,and/or Reviewed here?
It has been Play Tested many times with Very Good Results.
Any Help would be greatly Appriciated
Gerry

Dralius
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Joined: 07/26/2008
testing

Depending on what type of game you have you may find someone to play test it.

Tell us more: Theme, play length, player range, rules length, age group, etc…

Gmcsph
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Joined: 12/14/2008
Board Game

Hi Dralius,
The Name of the Game is MoneyHighway RoadRace.
2 to 4 Players,age 8 to Adult
A Game of Car Collectors,1950's on.
Takes about 5 Minuites to learn,and 30 to 90 Mins to Play
The Board has 52 Spaces,with Pitfalls and Benifits
Object is to Aquire the Most Cars of a Group
4 Decks of Cards,3 of 52 ,1 of 32
2 Decks have Photos of these Cars that you can Buy or trade.
The Rules are Possibilty to long to list.
2 Pages 8 1/2 by 11
If there is any interest or questions let me know.
Gerry

ReneWiersma
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Hi Gerry, I think it depends

Hi Gerry,

I think it depends on what your goal is. Would you like to see the game published some day? If so, you might post a link to the rules and some people here might have a look at it and tell you whether it would be suitable for production, as well as add other comments.

Gmcsph
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Joined: 12/14/2008
Board Game

Hi ReneWiersma,
Thanks for your reply.
Yes I would like to see it Published.
Could I upload it too this Group.
Or where could I upload it.
The Rules are 2 Pages,8 1/2 X 11.
Thanks Again
Gerry

Dralius
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ReneWiersma wrote:Hi Gerry,I

ReneWiersma wrote:
Hi Gerry,

I think it depends on what your goal is. Would you like to see the game published some day? If so, you might post a link to the rules and some people here might have a look at it and tell you whether it would be suitable for production, as well as add other comments.

Many good games are designed that just aren't publishable due to the high price of production. You have quite a few components. It won't be cheap to produce.

Gmcsph
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Joined: 12/14/2008
Board Game

Hi Dralius,
Thanks for your reply.
From your Experience,and what I have Listed.
What do you think it would Cost Per Board.
The Board I have is 20X20 inches.
3 Decks of 52,1 of 32
8 Pass cards,4 Bank Cards
2 Dice 4 Pawns,Paper Money,or Chips.
From the Many People that Have seen it
they seem to find it Interesting.
But that is only a Small Sample of Reaction.
Any help or Comments would be Appriciated.
Gerry

Dralius
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hard to guess

Unfortunately I’m primarily a designer and leave the part pricing up to my publishers.

I have in the past gotten quotes on games to see if I could afford to self publish them. The last one included 20x20 board, 4 pawns, 1 die, deck of 54 cards, rules and box. At 5,000 pieces, the smallest run I could get a decent price on it was about $5 each not including cost for proofs, delivery, art etc… This makes the target SRP around $30. Unless the publisher is going to go with a large print run to bring the price per unit down a game with considerably more parts will need to be priced high.

This doesn’t mean you can’t find a publisher, it just means you’ll need one that can afford to invest heavily in producing it and in turn make money.

Gmcsph
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Joined: 12/14/2008
Board Game

Hi Dralius,
Thanks for all your help.
It Gives me a lot to think about.
I developed this Game because of 26 Years in Mechanics.
Some of the cars in the Game,I had as Growing up.
A lot of heavy Metal in those Days.
Thanks Again
Gerry

schmanthony
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Joined: 12/18/2008
A board, a few decks of

A board, a few decks of cards, a few pawns and dice is a lot of components?

I really like the theme of the game... especially if it blends trading of antique cars for profit with the costs and challenges of repair. Perhaps players have choices in the game to invest in cars, repair services or buying their own tools and fixing things themselves using time (a limited resource)?

But by an chance are you using the age-old roll-and-move mechanic? Where a player rolls the dice, moves a pawn that many spaces along a track, then receives the "pitfall" or "benefit" associated with that space? I gather from your brief description that this may be the case. If so, then I strongly advocate eradicating this mechanic from the game. It's been absolutely worn out, and its presence will make your game look like many thousands of other uninspired, failed designs. There are many other more interesting and thematically appropriate ways of handling game length and random events.

Gmcsph
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Joined: 12/14/2008
Board Game

Hi schmanthony,
Thanks for your reply.
Yes it is Roll and move a Pawn.
As you see I'm new at this.
What type of mechanic would you use?
Any advice would be Appriciated.
Gerry

ilta
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Joined: 12/05/2008
There are many, many exciting

There are many, many exciting game mechanics out there beyond the much-dreaded "roll and move." You can get a listing of general types here. Click on each one to see examples of games that use that particular mechanic.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/browser.php?itemtype=game&sortby=mechanic

However, the most successful and fun games not only use one -- or, more often, several -- of these mechanic types, they add a "twist," often thematically-based.

For instance, one of my favorite mechanics is in the game Pandemic, which is a co-operative game where players fight diseases appearing in cities around the globe. Each turn, players draw from a deck of cards (one card for each city on the board), and infect that city. However, sometimes there's an "epidemic" -- when that happens, the players shuffle the discard pile and place it ON TOP of the old deck before drawing. In this way, the same few cities see diseases pop up again and again, sometimes with disastrous results. This twist on the usual "draw-cards-perform-action" routine is what elevates Pandemic into a truly fun game, rather than an exercise in running around the globe putting out fires; it adds tension because you know which cities will come up but not when, and sometimes you can't get to a city before it's drawn again, and then Bad Things Happen. The game becomes about risk management and effective teamwork, rather than luck of the draw and immediate reaction.

In any case, you're the expert here: what mechanics could you put into a game that mirror the actual work of mechanics and car collectors? Do they search a newspaper classifieds for listings? Do they have a network? Do certain dealers get reputations based on the quality of their previous sales? Do some cars go in and out of style with the passing of years? What factors in a particular car make it worth owning, junking, selling, or displaying? Are there regular events where collectors can show off their cars?

All of these can be simulated with much more immersive mechanics than "advance a pawn on the board, draw a card, do what the card says."

schmanthony
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Joined: 12/18/2008
There are so many

There are so many possibilities that I'm not sure I could advise effectively without understanding more about the game.

Perhaps the game is played in rounds. You could still use a turn track of some kind that simply shows what turn number it is. If you go this route I would advise keeping the number of rounds small. You could even specialize the rounds somehow. Perhaps each new round, or every 3 rounds, new cars become available on the market.

Or, perhaps some other mechanism determines the end of the game. Since the game is about money, maybe have it play on until one player reaches a target amount.

Perhaps you could end the game when some goal is reached. Perhaps at the beginning there is a small set of super-desireable cars hidden in the deck that none of the players can afford at the beginning. Maybe by smartly bidding on and repairing, and selling less desireable cars, players earn money that helps them finally land one of these target vehicles. Start each player as a kid out of high school with $5000 and an 87 cutlass that needs paint and a valve job, and the winner is the first to land mint 57 Bel Air (or similar). Maybe at the end of the game my buddy has $4,000 more than I do, but I steal the win by (finally) repairing my 'Cuda with a $100 part I bought in round 2 that is now impossible to find.

Katherine
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Joined: 07/24/2008
Gmcsph, don't fix it if it

Gmcsph,

don't fix it if it isn't broken.

There is a gerneral feeling of contempt toward "roll and move" games by some of the designers who post to this forum. Others will tell you it is ok to use the mechanic if the game calls for it.

The archive area is a good place to start when looking for ideas.

schmanthony
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Joined: 12/18/2008
shazzaz, I think the contempt

shazzaz, I think the contempt for roll-and-move is a little more significant than you describe. I think this contempt is pervasive throughout the hobbyist market - the one almost any new game designer will be trying to reach.

You might be able to sell a roll-and-move Monopoly derivative to Hasbro... if you own the Yu-gi-oh license and plan on plastering the board and pieces with branded Anime imagery... but for most of us designing a brand new game on its own merits, we're forced to sell to a small number of discerning hobbyists - not droves of spoiled 12-year-olds raking it in on christmas.

Katherine
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Joined: 07/24/2008
is that a rant? I am simply

is that a rant?

I am simply saying that Gmcsmp should go with what suits him and do his home work - as for hasbro, irrelevant. If some one wants to use roll a dice it should be ok irrespective of whether they are planning the mass market approach or not.

Pehaps I should mention that I don't design games so the dice debate is not my intention.

Gmcsph
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Joined: 12/14/2008
Board Game

Hi schmanthony,
Thanks to you and all the others who have given advice.
I sure have a lot to think about.
Just hearing what you said,has given me ideas.
All ideas are welcome.
Is it a Good idea to post the rules somewhere
to get an opinion on the good or bad?
Gerry

schmanthony
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Joined: 12/18/2008
shazzaz, It was rant(ish) I

shazzaz,

It was rant(ish) I confess, but I certainly didn't mean to direct it at you, so I'm sorry if it seemed that way. I meant to direct it at the state of the North American boardgame market and Hasbro in particular, both of which bother me on an almost daily basis.

-schmanthony

schmanthony
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Joined: 12/18/2008
Gmcsph, About posting the

Gmcsph,

About posting the rules, I've struggled with that very same issue myself. You're bound to hear a lot of differing opinions on that.

There is very little you can do to legally protect your boardgame-related ideas. On the upside, however, in the hobbyist market (back to that again, sorry) it seems that honor actually does go a long way towards marketability. I've read from several sources that publishers will back away from designs that are obviously "stolen." If you buy this at all, you could do what I done once (and am about to do again) - don't release any information until you're able to release it all at once. For me, this includes the rules, some background information about developing the game and of course loads and loads of pictures of the playable prototype documenting every component in detail. The best place to do this is boardgamegeek.com. Afterwards, you will have "stamped" and dated the idea as yours. Again, it's not likely to provide any legal protection, but it's something you can always point to to show the game is yours. And if your game actually is marketable then users of the web site and eventually publishers will likely take notice.

-schmanthony

Gmcsph
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Joined: 12/14/2008
Board Game

Hi schmanthony,
Thanks again for your help.
This is a Great Place to find out Many things about
Board Games.
The Game is Copyrighted,but that does not mean
after seeing it someone could make something
almost the same.
I was thinking about doing a Video of the Game
in progress,it's just something I had in my head.
Gerry

Katherine
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Joined: 07/24/2008
Hi Gerry, I want to ask how

Hi Gerry,

I want to ask how you gained your IT skills, my dad is just a couple of years older and I am still trying to get him to turn the computer on!

A video is a good idea, there is a thread here somewhere that discusses making videos of games for sumbmission.

ReneWiersma
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Where to begin? First of all,

Where to begin?

First of all, I don't think a few decks of cards, some dice, pawns and a board is a ton of components. Certainly not prohibitive to getting it published. If it is a fun game, a publisher will find a way to produce it for a decent price.

Secondly, having a roll-and-move mechanic as your game's core mechanic may make it more difficult to get it published in today's hobby market. The reason for this is that such a mechanic is not innovative - there are literally hundreds of games with a similar mechanic. Also, a roll-and-move mechanic introduces a certain kind of randomness to the game that most players these days don't like. At the same time a roll-and-move mechanic removes the chance for interesting decisions. In other words, what a player can and can't do heavily depends on the roll of the dice, not on decisions people make.

In today's boardgame hobby market publishers are looking for games with innovative mechanics and a good mix of randomness and player's choice, depending on the type of game. A traditional roll-and-move mechanic simply does not fit into that mold.

I asked in my first post whether you wanted to publish this game. The reason why I asked this is because if you want to publish the game it has to fit into the mold of what publishers want. In your case this means taking a few steps back and perhaps redesigning some core functionality of your game. This may take a lot of time and work. Remember that there's nothing wrong with having a game that you enjoy playing with your friends and family. This is an achievement in itself.

ReneWiersma
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If you want to replace the

If you want to replace the roll-and-move mechanic, here's an idea to do that without - hopefully - upsetting the game too much.

Current situation: you have a number of squares around the board, each with a "good" or "bad" thing on it that the player must to do when he lands on that square. I don't know how much squares thare are, but let's say that are forty.

Now, remove the board entirely and turn these forty squares into forty cards. At the start of each round a number of these cards, equal to the number of players, are drawn and places faced up. Then, a bidding round starts. Whoever bids the most money gets to choose one card and keeps this card. This player may not bid on any remaining cards. Then a new bidding round starts for the remaining cards. Continue this until all the cards have been auctioned off (the last card will go for nothing, of course). Then, player's take their turns as normal. At the start of their turn they perform the action on the card they just got in the auction.

The effect of this mechanic is that players still will undergo some good and some bad things during the game, in about the same proportion. However, now players will have some control over when this will happen to them. A smart player will be able to get good effects for cheap, while avoiding some bad effects. Of course, because the cards are auctioned this will be more or less balanced.

This is just an idea to get you started, there are a million more ways do "solve" this problem, and that's the fun of game design. Perhaps players don't bid with money, but by playing a "car" card with a number on it. Or maybe these cards are distributed in other way. Or maybe you can do away with these "good" and "bad" effects at all! Be creative.

Good luck & have fun!

dnjkirk
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Pouncing on what Rene said...

Instead of bidding (since your game is more than likely cash-intensive anyway what with repairs and the like) you could have the player with the least cards on the table pick a drawn card first, and then on to the player with the most cards on the table.

This somewhat reflects the method Power Grid (by Friedman Friese) reigns in the leader by forcing them to take their actions later.

Cards on the table would clearly be the cars that the players have in hand and fixed up, ready for sale or trade. The player with more cars would clearly have more bad happen to him as with more vehicles, there are simply more parts to get broken!

As an aside, you might want to go to your local game store and pick up a copy of Modern Art by Reiner Knizia. This is an auction and bidding game par excellence, and would probably help you with the bidding and trading part of your game.

By all means: if a mechanic in your game can be cut out or simplified, do it... so long as it retains that theme. This "optimization" process is quite a brain burning experience, and I really enjoy the challenge it poses. You can go through each part of the game and say "Do I need this? Does it fit with the theme of the game? How can I make it simpler and more thematic?"

Good luck!

Gmcsph
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Joined: 12/14/2008
Board Game

Hi shazzaz,
I have been working (Fooling Around) with computers
since the Commador 64,have 2 Copyrights on Automotive
Programs.
1 Automotive Preventive Maintaince
2 How to Buy a Used Car.
Sent these to 6 Companies in the USA,No luck
But a few years later something similar showed up.
As for getting my friends my age or older, using the computer
what i tell them is "Try it, you can't break it" just turn it off
and most of the time it will be OK.
With most Programs this will be the case.
Please forgive my spelling,is there a Spell checker on this Site?
Gerry

Gmcsph
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Joined: 12/14/2008
Board Game

Hi ReneWiersma,
Thanks for all of your input.
It sure gives me a lot to think about.
Gerry

Gmcsph
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Joined: 12/14/2008
Board Game

Hi dnjkirk,
Thank you and to all for your input.
I find that the only way to complete an idea
is to get as much INPUT as possible,then use what
you think is good in your Project.
I have always had an open Mind,and believe anything
is possible,with hard work.
Gerry

Gmcsph
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Joined: 12/14/2008
Board Game

Hi ReneWiersma,
This is my own view about the game,key word here is MY.
In the Course of this Game,it can cause friction between
players.
It Teaches you to use your money Wisely,if
You want to last another Lap.
You may find out quickly who your Friends are.
Players may have to Sell off some of their Collection
to stay Alive,and at prices far below what they cost.
I could go on and on,but thats because I like the Game.
Its Fun,and you Laugh a Lot.
But thats My View.
To All, Please don't Stop with your Advice.
Gerry

dannorder
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Target audience is key

Be aware that there are different target audiences. The target audience that most designers here aim at is for a specialist market: game players who like new things and buy games in specialty stores the feature nothing but games. There's also a mass market audience of people who don't like getting that into games and just want light entertainment that they can figure out. Roll and move games work better to the second of those two markets.

The first has benefits in that the audience buys a fair number of games and have specific places you (or any publisher eventually working with you) can target to sell the games. The second market is the land of Wal-Mart, Target, etc. where manufacturers want games that are cheap to produce and can sell to lots of people - a small minority of the people going to their stores, but lots of people overall when the totals are added up.

Your game suggests a potential third audience: people who love car collecting, or who just like old style cool. That's not a niche games normally target, but most games aren't about car collecting. Just as someone in New York City (tourist or proud local) isn't going to go to a local store and buy Wisconsinopoly but might buy Manhattanopoly, you might have success targeting the niche hobbyist/fan audience. In a case like that you don't want the game to get too complicated. Maybe not a Monopoly clone (though at least people understand them and aren't intimidated by them), but something similar that they can pick up. If it has nice images of nice cars, all the better. The trick there is to target a company that already has their products going to shops that audience would go to. Companies that sell models of classic cars, for instance, or perhaps some place that does retro style design gifts.

The regulars here are a great resource for the kinds of things they do, but that isn't necessarily what you should do. Your market is the people with the passion for what you have to sell. Are you primarily selling a fun game that happens to be about old cars, or are you selling entertainment about old cars that just happens to be in game format? Your answer to that determines where you go from here.

schmanthony
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Joined: 12/18/2008
I think, with its theme, that

I think, with its theme, that this game could easily target a hobbyist market *and* a market of car guys that could be persuaded into playing a game about their favorite pasttime.

Gmcsph, In your last description of the game, you mentioned something else that concerned me - the thing about "staying alive" for "another lap." This suggests that player elimination is possible. If this is the case, you may want to think about getting rid of that. It's certainly no fun to be out of a game while everyone else gets to keep playing it, and most modern games seek to "eliminate player elimination."

There are many ways of doing this. Probably the simplest way is to end the game when a player is eliminated.

Gmcsph
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Joined: 12/14/2008
Board Game

Hi dannorder,
Thanks for all of your input.
Maybe I was not too clear in earlier posts.
The game does involve roll and move,but also is card driven.
The Board has 52 Spaces,of these 4 are event Spaces
where you draw a card,these cards tell you to move from
1 to 16 spaces forward or back,so it is possible that you could
be a few spaces from the Exit,only to have to go forward or
back past the finish Line.
There are 2 Casino spaces,these are optional.
The Game is Based on a possible real life event.
Going around the board,has the same possible Pitfalls
and Benefits as real Life.
There are 2 Decks of 52 Cards,both with the same Cars on
them,starting from the early 1950's to about 1970.
I made the cards and Laminated them,look like good Quality.
Without the rules it would be hard to take it all in.
So Far about 26 people, 6 of them I know said if it were
Published they would buy it.
But you and I know that it's too small a sample to base
anything on.
What I can Say is "Thank God for this Site",it has
opened My eyes to many things.
I would like to find a Publisher for it,if I could.
Gerry

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