Skip to Content
 

Somehow, i manage to always fail at getting responses ... or responses that doesn't work.

10 replies [Last post]
Sun, 02/19/2012 - 08:52
Catelf
Offline
Joined: 10/05/2009

Title says it all.
I have a well-working base for minature-based games of several kinds, With boards to show specific areas.
I have several ideas, and i don't mind sharing the rules i have and so on ....
But somehow, i always manage to not get any responses that works in the long run when i'm asking for advice an suggestions.

On a site for rpgs(yes i have things like that in the works, too), i got the advice to give specific questions that can be answered .... However, that do not seem to work, either.

Technically, my idea is not really new, but i must point out that using only one roll of dice(or die) to solve attacks in miniature games that has story-aspirations is very rare.
Also, combining Horror and miniatures is said to be impossible. I do not agree.
And, multi-genre is also very uncommon among miniature- and boardgames.

But i often end up not being able to know what to even ask about ...

Top
Sun, 02/19/2012 - 11:41
#1
teriyaki
Offline
Joined: 02/14/2012
Hmm.. game design, especially

Hmm.. game design, especially board game design is not an easy job...

People can give you advice or their thoughts but it always up to on you, your inspiration and decisions. While you can be pointed to games and mechanics which might be useful to consider for your game, it is very very rare that you can take a component of some other game as it is and just stick it in yours.

If you're in a slump, don't worry. I've been working on my first game intensely for several months and actually burned out trying to solve some problems. Only later, when I managed to put it back in the drawer and think about another, completely different game, the solutions began to appear to me.

Game design is a creative process. You need to be able to clear your mind... It is not like writing a novel where you have to sit down for several hours each day and put out pages. It's almost all about ideas and you need to allow your intuition some space.

Personally the vast majority of my ideas come when I'm taking a shower or walking somewhere on some errand. Carry a notebook with you always!!!! Read everything, listen to every advice, play as many different games as you can and avoid thinking about your game while doing so. Then take a shower, take a walk... or talk with a friend about the game (another way to get ideas flowing) and don't worry. If you let your muse some space, she'll come to you on her own.

So, every response you get is valuable. Some mechanic that is completely different from what you asked for might be the key for some other part of your game or another game altogether! It's very important to work on several games at the same time as well. When I meet the wall with one game I immediately switch to another game I'm working on. It's really all about feeding your muse and letting her have enough space.

I know it's a bit off topic, but I hope I managed to help with my biographical rant. :)

Top
Sun, 02/19/2012 - 12:56
#2
j1hopki1
Offline
Joined: 04/13/2011
Sometimes you'll get good

Sometimes you'll get good suggestions and others you just ignore. I think the most important thing about playtesting and design suggestions is they force you to look at your game in different ways and justify why you did what you did. Someone may give an idea that sucks, but it forces you to justify why it sucks which gives you insight into the deeper workings of your game. Often just bouncing ideas off someone is enough to lead you down the road to finding solutions yourself.

Top
Sun, 02/19/2012 - 18:18
#3
heavyrocks
heavyrocks's picture
Offline
Joined: 02/11/2012
I agree with the points made

I agree with the points made above. Mini notebook in your back pocket at all times is essential, not just for game design. A lot of times you have to take criticism with a grain of salt. If someone says "this mechanic is lame", there's a good chance they just haven't thought about it as much as you have. Try to ask probing questions and look deeper into feedback to see what the real problem is. There may be assumptions you've made based on your vision that aren't clear to a newly initiated player.

My current pet project started off as a board game, but as we added more mechanics, putting it on a computer platform seemed like the best way to keep the complexity, while staying inviting for a large player-base. Dealing with the cold logic of a computer has really forced us to iron out any ambiguous rules, that gamers (especially designers) can intuit or solve on a case by case basis in play.

I'm fortunate enough to have a team of 3 designing my game, and we're pretty good at communicating with each other. (The other two guys are brothers.) Usually one of us has an idea and the other two will critique or tweak it until it works, or there is a unanimous decision to abandon it. A lot of times I'll have an idea that I know is amazing (or think I know), and my colleagues opposition is really just the result of me explaining it poorly.

I guess that's about all I have to add.

Top
Mon, 02/20/2012 - 06:42
#4
Cogentesque
Cogentesque's picture
Offline
Joined: 08/17/2011
Catelf, when you ask for

Catelf, when you ask for advice - do you mean face to face? As in, ask someone who's in your house "what do you think will help?" or do you mean here on BGDF, of forums on BGG or what?

So when you say you don't get any repsonses that work in the long run : does that mean
1) You get responses but they do not "fix" your game, or
2) You get no responses at all

?

Each of those deserves a well thought out and different answer, and I shan't muddy the water by laying them both out here.

Top
Mon, 02/20/2012 - 07:29
#5
Catelf
Offline
Joined: 10/05/2009
I'm no beginner at this.

I often forget to mention that i'm no beginner, resulting in that i often get advices that a beginner or novice may not have heard. .... And my notebook is my memory.

Cogentesque wrote:
Catelf, when you ask for advice - do you mean face to face? As in, ask someone who's in your house "what do you think will help?" or do you mean here on BGDF, of forums on BGG or what?

So when you say you don't get any repsonses that work in the long run : does that mean
1) You get responses but they do not "fix" your game, or
2) You get no responses at all

Each of those deserves a well thought out and different answer, and I shan't muddy the water by laying them both out here.


Mainly on forums.
The above posts reminded me that i often get "beginner's advices" that i have read so often it feels like a hundred times by now.
When i don't get beginner's advice, i get suggesstions that i should ask specific questions, or a list of games that i either already know, uses a mechanism i have no intention of using, or that i may have some problems finding in store or online ....
And frequently, i get no responses at all.

Ok, occasionally, i have gotten good advices, but those are few and far between.

Top
Mon, 02/20/2012 - 08:16
#6
Cogentesque
Cogentesque's picture
Offline
Joined: 08/17/2011
Ok, well I would start by

Ok, well I would start by asking the question in this forrum right this second, or pointing to where you have already asked the question in the forum, that we can tell you why we think no one replied or replied poorly.

So if then, your actual question is that "I don't get decent advice"
then if we broke it down, we could probably work out:

"I" - You need to work on Peoples perceptions of you
"dont get" - You need to work on how you attract attention
"decent" - You need to ask a more appropriate audience or need to realise that no advice that people give you will be what you exepect (see: Good enough)
"advice" - You may need to realise that it IS good advice, or perhaps the advice you asked for but didn't want

Those would be me initial thoughts on it all; but I will be able to help much more if you were to forward a few examples of the bad advice you recieved either in this, or any other forum :)

s

Top
Mon, 02/20/2012 - 12:32
#7
Catelf
Offline
Joined: 10/05/2009
I looked at my earlier threads here ....

Cogentesque wrote:
I will be able to help much more if you were to forward a few examples of the bad advice you recieved either in this, or any other forum :)

I looked through the earlier threads i have done on this site, and found that here, i never managed to put a specific question (!).
The only exception was my first thread, where i did manage to put a few questions, and also got several good answers.

So the problem seems to be if i manage an important question or not ...
But as i looked at those two other threads, i noticed, that i still seem unable to ask a focussed question about the the two game ideas they represent ...

Top
Mon, 02/20/2012 - 14:24
#8
Orangebeard
Offline
Joined: 10/13/2011
Example Question

Hi Catelf,

For what it is worth, I was very happy with the responses I received to a question I presented a few months ago (link below). After reading your concerns, I went back to my question to see if there was anything about it that might have helped people better answer the question.

http://www.bgdf.com/node/5804

I realize now that the question I asked was specific in nature. It was already given that 1) there was a fire 2) it will spread and 3) it is importatant to the overall game, but not the main focus. Sometimes, I see questions in the forum that are simply too vague to answer well. For example, if I had asked "Should I include fire as a hazard in my game?" or "I'm thinking of a hazard that will hurt the players and influence the outcome of the game; what should it be?" I could have received many answers that probalby would not have answered the question.

When you have been immersed in your design for months, it is very easy to suddenly pop up with a question that makes perfect sense to you, but everyone else doesn't understand what you are asking. If possible, try to step back a little and provide some background for your game or some context for the question.

"Should chocolate milk do as much damage as skim milk?" doesn't make a lot of sense but, "I have a question about the damage of dairy products in my new CCG, Lactose Intolerance: The Cow's Revenge!" gives forum members some idea what you are working towards.

Good luck with your designs - Looking foward to your questions!

Top
Mon, 02/20/2012 - 16:12
#9
Kirioni
Offline
Joined: 09/20/2009
Maybe not the answer you want...

The most effective use of this forum I have found is to research what people are talking about, ask a couple pointed questions, sometimes they get answered and some times they do not.

The value I find in this medium is connecting to other designers and collaborating, largely off this site. Meeting like minded designers often you can send rules, design problems and such back and forth. As long as it is a mutual and beneficial relationship it can add a lot more to the design process than trusting on an attractive title to gain responses.

I am not advocating abandoning the forums, nor ignoring posts by other designers, just relying on them as more supplement to your personal design process.

2 cents for what it is worth.

Top
Tue, 02/21/2012 - 03:36
#10
Catelf
Offline
Joined: 10/05/2009
Good explaining, there.

@Kirioni
Good 2 cents. I appreciate it.

Orangebeard wrote:
Hi Catelf,
For what it is worth, I was very happy with the responses I received to a question I presented a few months ago.
I realize now that the question I asked was specific in nature. It was already given that 1) there was a fire 2) it will spread and 3) it is importatant to the overall game, but not the main focus. Sometimes, I see questions in the forum that are simply too vague to answer well. For example, if I had asked "Should I include fire as a hazard in my game?" or "I'm thinking of a hazard that will hurt the players and influence the outcome of the game; what should it be?" I could have received many answers that probalby would not have answered the question.

Yup, that seems to be exactly my problem ... or have been.
From the above example, it seems that i, instead of asking vaugue questions, perhaps should consider a specific thing, and ask about it, or take a hypothetical thing, but still specific, and ask about that.

The "Lactose Intolerance" game example made me smile.
.... I'll see if i can focus on specific things for coming topics and questions.

Top
Syndicate content


forum | by Dr. Radut