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Space Battle Card game

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Troy Boy
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Joined: 03/17/2015

So here is the concept: Two players face off attempting to destroy each others' planets. They have a set number of ships and limited fuel to accomplish their task. A player wins when they have destroyed a certain point value in planets or have destroyed their opponent's mothership, known as their Galaxy. If both players run out of fuel, the player with the most points wins.

There a 9 different ships and each player receives various amounts of each one. Each ship has a cool space name like "Nova", "Quasar", or "Planemo". You never get more ships but you may be able to get small amounts of additional fuel. To deploy a ship it will cost between 1 and 4 Fuel Consumption Units (or FCU) Each player will have between 10-15 planets, depending on game length.

There are two phases during the game; the Deployment Phase and the Combat Phase.

Deployment Phase:
Each player takes alternating turns deploying ships, face down, on a planet they wish to attack or defend. A player may place 1 or all of their ships on a single planet during a turn. Then their opponent will do the same. This will repeat until both players have deployed 5 times each. On a turn a player may never deploy ships to more than one planet though they may deploy ships to the same planet on subsequent turns.

Example!
Bob deploys two ships face down on Steve's Planet Rosaba. Steve wishes to defend it, so on his turn he places 4 ships face down on Rosaba. Bob is determined to annihilate this planet so on his next turn he places 3 more ships down on the same planet. Steve, ever so confident, decides Rosaba's forces can hold their own and chooses to place 3 ships down on Bob's Planet Nor. This goes on until both have made 5 deployments.

Keep in mind neither team knows what the other has placed down.

Combat Phase:
I tried to make this as simple as possible. Its a mix between Axis & Allies and Heroscape. Each ship will bring into the fight a certain number of attack and defense dice, some significantly more than others. Both players reveal their cards and determine how many attack and defense dice they will need. Then then place all their forces on the "Battle board" face down in a random order, each on their own side.

The attack dice are rolled first. It will probably be best to roll separately, but not necessarily needed. Attack dice hit on a 3 or less when rolling a d6. For each die that scores a hit place a damage token on an opponent's face down ship. After all tokens have been placed, next roll defense dice. These dice hit on a 2 or less. For every defense die that hits remove one token from one of your ships.

Then everyone flips over the ships and those with a token are destroyed. I wanted to get a feel for the chaos of a space battle with the loses being random, so I am hoping this does that simply.

A player may retreat at any time or continue on with the fight. If the attacker wins the battle they may attempt to destroy the planet with their ships. I'm still working on that last part.

Either way I got the cards ready and I'm testing it tonight!

jejboulet
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I like it

How did your test go?

I like the concept of having hidden forces approaching the battles and of assigning damage to random ships. Of course, in a real battle one would probably have a strategy for concentrating fire on certain ships, so a space battle is probably less chaotic in that sense than your design would imply. Nevertheless, in terms of a game it could be fun. Only playtesting will tell.

I also like the limited fuel idea. If you balance that correctly it should make for a great addition to the game.

So every ship has hit point value of 1, is that correct? And you try to balance that by being able to remove hits with defence dice. I'm curious to see how that works out. It could be a real drag to lose a powerful ship because you couldn't remember which ship you should protect.

Do planets have any defensive systems of their own? Also, is there any value to capturing a planet rather than destroying it?

All in all I think you've got a good concept. I look forward to seeing where you go with it after testing and refinement.

Troy Boy
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Joined: 03/17/2015
So I made the cards myself by

So I made the cards myself by using two sheets of gloss cardstock and some spray adhesive. I then needed an exacto knife to cut them out. They look cool but the process took too long so we didnt play test this weekend :/

To your question about hitpoints: Yes, to a degree. Big ships bring in a stat called Armor. If a ship has 2 Armor it means that for the battle you gain 2 Armor tokens. These can be used in two ways. You can either use a Armor token to remove a Damage token from a ship (like a Defense roll that automatically 'hit') or you can use a Armor token to "save" a ship that has an Armor stat. So if your powerful ship did take a hit you just use the Armor token and its still alive.

I'm hoping this brings in some strategy because the more ships you save "at random" means more firepower during the next round of combat but also puts the bigger ships at risk later in the fight.

jejboulet
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Interesting solution

Interesting solution. I think that takes care of my main concern.

The length of the game will be decided by how much fuel and how many ships you give to the players. Do you have an idea of the game duration window you're aiming for?

Like I said before, I think your game includes a great bundle of mechanics. Keep us updated on your progress.

DarkDream
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Some Thoughts

Here is a brief list of comments:

1) At what point in the game will the fuel be subtracted? Seems with hidden forces a player can cheat.
2) This sounds a lot like a bluffing game. I recommend having a ship with 0 attack and 0 defense with fuel cost of zero. A dummy ship for example to have opponent divert resources to it.
3) Not sure about the deployment phase. Seems to me that the second player will just react to the first player deploying ships. Maybe after a deployment have the reacting player be able to go again so the other player then reacts. Seems like if you go first it is a great advantage.
4) Would not consider destroying planets but occupying them. So on a subsequent round a player has a chance to gain a planet back.
5) I am concerned about run away leader problem. If in a battle, a player gets unlucky and his more powerful ships are destroyed, the opposing player will know that and seems like he can just play defensively and grind down opponent.

Definitely think there is something there. I suggest play testing it as soon as you can, as I think you will see whether the main engine works or not.

--DarkDream

Troy Boy
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thanks for the feedback. 1)

thanks for the feedback.

1) Once you engage in a battle you reveal all your forces there and then subtract fuel costs. There will be a penalty if you over spent. (not sure what though)

2) It definitely has a lot of bluffing going on and honestly I don't want too much of it but we'll see how it goes.

3) That's a great idea about the deployment phase and makes a lot of sense.

4) I've actually reconsidered changing it to occupying neutral planets which will solve the deployment issue. If your opponent goes for a planet that is of no interest to you, you can let him have it without defending it.

5) Me too :(

Troy Boy
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Joined: 03/17/2015
First round of play test

So I'm excited about this game and impatient so I play-tested it with... myself :/ lol (which was a little complicated but insightful)

First off I didn't use fuel as I feel that will take awhile to balance; I just wanted to try out the mechanics.

I had 12 neutral planets set out that could be taken at anytime. None of them had any special significance during the play test.

I played against a "completely random opponent", ie ships were placed randomly on different planets using dice as a simulated AI.

The mechanics worked like this: start with 5 cards. On each deployment turn, draw another. Skip a deployment turn to draw 2 more cards. I only did 3 deployments instead of 5, which seemed to work fine.
During battles each side rolled dice and gained either Damage Tokens or Defense tokens depending on the dice. Then all ships go face down in a random order followed by placing Damage Tokens or using Defense tokens to remove a Damage token.

Placing the Damage tokens randomly was actually pretty exciting, even though it was just me playing ;) There was always this sense of "What did I hit!?" / "What did I lose!?"

I played for 20 mins before I lost a crucial battle and a sizable portion of my fleet. Without using fuel in the game the player going last has a huge advantage, actually, because on their last turn they can dump the remainder of their ships in their hand on a planet and completely wipe out whatever forces are there. With the Armor stat a big force will almost never take damage from a smaller force. Therefore I conclude fuel is a must for this game!

radioactivemouse
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Seems too...direct

When I plan for making games, I look for a solid hook to make it stand out. While defeating a planet is a good idea, the execution seems a little bland.

Ideas that can help:

-Have players be aliens with a certain power a la Cosmic Encounter...but you don't want to make the game Cosmic Encounter-ish, which is a game about colonizing planets.

-Have a map. Spread out the planets so that each player has to "acquire" the planet, then you have to defend it. Make it so the planets give fuel (mining resources), but it takes turns to get that fuel and it takes fuel to get to certain planets. The map can be card-built; it doesn't have to be a "board" (maybe that can be the hook). Maybe there's a "space" deck where you have to spend fuel to reveal the top card and if it's a planet, you have to fight to defeat/acquire it.

-Move away from dice. Dice is a great way to determine attack results, but try something new. Maybe some kind of dexterity exercise or random card draw i.e. have numbers on each card and reveal the top card of the deck for attack results...then you can balance the game by having the more powerful ability/ship cards have a lower attack number. I like dice, but dice are kinda...saturating the market atm.

I know a lot of these ideas are a little contrary to your initial game design (and may be conflicting, in some cases), but again these are ideas and suggestions, you ultimately don't have to use them. The hope is that either you try one of these ideas or are inspired to expand or try other ideas. There's more I'd like to suggest, but I'm currently at BGG Con and I've been frantic here.

DarkDream
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Some Suggestions and Clarifications

Troy Boy wrote:
I had 12 neutral planets set out that could be taken at anytime. None of them had any special significance during the play test.

Might be a good idea, like RadioactiveMouse hinted at, was maybe to differ the planets so gaining one planet may result in a special action, different values of fuel, a factory on a planet so fuel can be used to create more ships and so on.

Troy Boy wrote:
The mechanics worked like this: start with 5 cards. On each deployment turn, draw another. Skip a deployment turn to draw 2 more cards. I only did 3 deployments instead of 5, which seemed to work fine.

Did not quite follow this. Is each deployment card a ship you can deploy? Why would you skip a deployment? Is this so on subsequent turns you have more of a choice in cards in your hand to deploy? Trying to understand the game significance of skipping a deployment.

Troy Boy wrote:
Without using fuel in the game the player going last has a huge advantage, actually, because on their last turn they can dump the remainder of their ships in their hand on a planet and completely wipe out whatever forces are there. With the Armor stat a big force will almost never take damage from a smaller force. Therefore I conclude fuel is a must for this game!

Even with fuel in play, you may run into the same problem (the player going last dumping the remainder of their ships) if both players have enough fuel or equal levels of it. To avoid this particular issue, maybe you can have a random amount of deployment turns. That is you can turn over cards which say, "finish" or "deploy." You can do it in such a way that on average you have X rounds of deployment. That way it adds a bit of tension, and you are never sure whether to dump all your cards on a turn as there maybe more turns.

--DarkDream

jejboulet
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More thoughts

The concern mentioned above about a runaway leader is something to consider. One important related question to ask yourself is: what kind of space battle game is this going to be? That is, do you want it to be a short game with lots of quick and exciting action, or do you perhaps want it to be a long epic kind of game. Also, what is the ideal balance between chance and strategy? Length and seriousness will affect the urgency of fixing the runaway leader problem and also how you might approach any solution. If the game is supposed to be a long one, then you definitely should consider ways to get a player back in the game. There's nothing worse than playing a 3 hour game that you knew you were going to lose in the first 10 min. If it is going to be a very short game anyway, then perhaps it isn't that important.

The same question is going to affect your solution to some other problems as well. Some people suggested above that there could be ways to get more fuel using the planets and maybe build more ships using factories and fuel. Those are great ideas if you are interested in a longer and more involved game. My read of your initial post suggested to me that you wanted something a little simpler, hence the limit on fuel and on ships. I personally like your original idea to limit those things and to force players to make good use of what they have.

As noted above, a good hook is very important. You already have at least one great hook as far as I'm concerned in the idea to have hidden deployments and damage. That idea is one reason I keep checking on your progress.

Thinking about your recent play through I do have a clarification question. In your set up of planets do you mean that location of planets doesn't matter at all and that therefore ships can be deployed from your hand to any planet? And ships always move from your hand to planets for attack and not from one planet to another? If your planets don't have a spatial relation (e.g. a map configuration), then it might be worth it to at least find some way of making some planets more strategically valuable. Usually this is done using a map, but it would affect your ability to make deployments secret if ships are forced to travel on fixed paths between planets.

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