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How to calculate amount of play money required in a game

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larienna
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I am working on a stock market game. I am currently using a digital game simulation to collect the statistics I need. I am now at the card design phase, I have card sets design that performs under 10K$ at the end of the game while others perform at more than a million dollars. So I want to select card sets that perform under a certain range like min 10K$ max 40K$.

The maximum performance of this range is directly tied to the amount of play money available in the game. There needs to be enough commodity to be able to perform the transactions. My objective would be that a 4 player game requires a pack of monopoly money. Such pack contains 20k$. So the question is which max fortune performance would allow me to operate with 20K$ in bills.

There are many factors to consider, that is why I am asking the questions. I can collect additional statistics in my simulations, but I need to know what to collect in the first place. Here are some of the complications:

  • Since its for 4 players that makes around 5k$ per player
  • I does not includes all the assets, play money is only used for transitions. Stocks hold does not requires money even if it counts in the fortune.
  • Divivend paid in a turn could be summed up since its the amount of money given to players after each round.
  • players can keep money between rounds, hard to predict that, but I could calculate the amount of leftovers, unspent money.
  • Players can sell their stocks, collect the money and buy afterwards, or just move their stock from one place to another by paying or receiving the difference. The first case would require more bills than the second one.
  • Not all the 20k$ bills will be used before lacking bills since there are different denominations. You will not pay 100$ in 1$ and 5$ for example.
  • Maybe I could try to decompose maximum cash in hand into different bills to see if some bills would be lacking.

So far, collecting stats about the maximum cash in hand through an entire game and multiplying by 4 could be the best solution. Then trying to divide it using the denominations could be another idea. Is there other statistics that could be worth collecting?

X3M
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Some questions about the game

What is the minimal $ per purchased item?
What is the maximum $ per purchased item?
What is the average $ per purchased item?

Are there earnings that are lower than the lowest purchased item?
Are there earnings that are higher than the highest purchased item?
What are the extremes in this?

20K$ divided over 4 players. Does that mean that the players start with 5K$?
Or do they start with another value?

Is there a bank? Probably yes, but I ask anyway.

***

I suggest looking into the 1,2,5 sets.
Meaning that you have 1,2,5,10,20,50,100,200,500 etc.
But.... removing the bills starting with 2 occasionally.
I suspect that it would be smart to have the 2 bill at the meta gaming average. And a bit more of these than the other bills. 3x2=6 while 1+5=6. But 4x2=8 while 3x1+5=8. It is a matter of simplicity at the meta gaming.

Monopoly has 100, 500, 1,000, 2,000, 5,000, 10,000 and 50,000. Thus the 2 bill is at the centre or 4th position.

Game of Life(?) has 500, 1,000, 5,000, 10,000, 20,000, 50,000 and 100,000. This time the 2 bill is at the 5th place.

These 2 games make use of 7 different bills.
I see other games that make use of less types of bills.
But 7 seems to be the maximum accepted. Yet, there are printers that would accept 8 or even 9 different types in the same style. And one printer, doing the Monopoly bills for kids. But adding a 1,000 bill to it.

While mostly aimed at kids. You could get inspiration here too:
https://freedomsprout.com/money-board-games/

Ehm... which contains a Stock Market game for kids.

Cheers, X3M

larienna
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Monopoly currency is:

Monopoly currency is: 1,5,10,20,50,100,500

Your concept of middle bill is interesting as it is more likely to be used than the others. I tried to make my game match the monopoly denominations for convenience.

Stock value can range from 10$ to 250$ by 10$ increments. The start value is 100$.
Dividend paid per stock range between 1$ and 60$.
Players starts with 500$
Of course there is a bank.

So yes bills in multiples of 10 will be used for purchase/sell or transfer of stocks.

While the lower bills could be used to pay for dividends.

I guess the high 500$ bills could be used at the end of the game, for example if you have 10 stocks that earn a 50$ dividend.

The thing is that most players should reinvest their earnings, so keeping big bills might not be necessary. Unless the market is in very bad condition and people want to keep their money. This is why the number of required money diverge so much from the end game fortune.

questccg
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Something to consider

larienna wrote:
...I guess the high 500$ bills could be used at the end of the game, for example if you have 10 stocks that earn a 50$ dividend...

Have you thought about having Gold which is a relatively STABLE commodity (1:1)?

I ask this because Gold retains its VALUE while Money ($$$) varies with the status of the Market.

Alternatively you could have a GOLD "Victory Condition" like collect $100k Gold. Or something similar. Why? Because it FEELS like a way that players can BEAT the game without the necessity of too much "complexity"!

Anyhow... Something for you to consider. Cheers.

X3M
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Well, some bills in Monopoly

Well, some bills in Monopoly are used for tracking how much you saved up.
If the game has this in the form of stocks. You would only be using it to count an end result.
You might as well use the stocks themselves with their end value.
Also, the bills with high numbers in most games are a form of showing of to the other players.
In the other game, you even use it to simply track points if you think about it. The biggest bills are used for tracking. Whilest in Monopoly, they are used when the moment arizes.

If you don't have any use to certain bills. Then you simply don't add them. It is as simple as that. If you discover that a certain bill is used a lot in the game during playtesting. Simply double or triple this one. And the 2 "adjacent" bills are also increased in number.

You can even have 2 "most used" bills in the game.

For example: The players use the most 500 and 2000 bills.
Each bill occurs 20 times. But...
You add +20 for the 500 and 2000 bills.
You add +10 for the 100 and 1000 bills.
You add +10 for the 1000 and 5000 bills.

The totals are now:
20x100, 30x200, 40x500, 40x1,000, 40x2,000, 30x5,000, 20x10,000
Now, as you can see, I added a 200 bill. I suspect that a 2, 20, 200 or 2000 bill is added if it is close to a highly used bill.

But for me, it is all theory.

questccg
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The goal is to buy low and sell high. Liquidity is not an issue

X3M wrote:
...If the game has this in the form of stocks. You would only be using it to count an end result...

I think the reason that there is MONEY is because you BUY AND SELL Stocks during the game. You don't just buy all your stocks and keep them until the last round. That would be very DUMB as a "Stock Market" game. It's like Day-Trading, buy low and sell high (relatively).

You can also watch certain stocks you own PLUMMET and then you should have an EXIT strategy to minimize losses.

That is WHY(!) I suggested Gold as a Commodity. It can be an ALTERNATE victory condition: first player to reach $???k in Gold wins the game. How much is subjective to the game.

Liquidity is not very important. What is important is making GOOD Trades and then buying up MORE stocks. Again trying to load up as much on stocks which are moving UP the Market.

Having too much CASH on-hand is BAD. It means that optimally you are LOSING money. Because I doubt there is any INTEREST on the liquid money and therefore to maximize profits, you should be buying up more stocks to earn even more money...

Gold as a commodity could be a GOAL to a side-victory or alternate victory... OR maybe for each Gold Brick of $100k you earn +? Victory Points or you earn a bonus of some kind... IDK just thinking about what could be added and used to make a more interesting GAME!

I will think about this some more. I have it in the back of my mind and we'll see if any OTHER ideas come to the surface. But I think going the EURO-ISH way could be COOL.

questccg wrote:
The Euro-way to do it... Is that you have SECTORS in the total Market and for each Sector you earn Victory Points for having the most money in that Sector (of Stocks). A "Liquidity Bonus" could be for $???K you earn +? VPs for CASH on hand. Same thing could be for GOLD too. And in the end the player with the most amount of Victory Points, wins the game...

Something like this could be more FLEXIBLE and make it less about pure $$$. I'm into Euros because "Plains of Aria" (PoA) is a Medium Euro and I'm working on finishing off this game's design. Still more designing to be done. But I am getting on with that design and it is maturing as a "prototype". Not yet... But maybe soon.

Anyhow Euro and VPs is something for you to CONSIDER...

Could make the game VERY different and not only about $$$ but How(?) you invest your $$$... Cheers!

questccg
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As far as sectors are concerned...

Well you can have some close battles between some sectors and have tight battlegrounds, meanwhile you may have great leads in certain sectors meaning that you can sometimes focus on the battlegrounds while your other sectors grow more organically.

I don't know how the REAL Stock Market is divided. But I guess you could come up with your OWN Version of it. It doesn't need to be REAL just work for YOUR GAME!

#1> Technology – software, hardware, semiconductors, IT services.

#2> Healthcare / Big Pharma – pharmaceuticals, biotech, medical devices, healthcare providers.

#3> Financials – banks, insurance, asset management, payment processors.

#4> Energy – oil & gas, renewables, energy infrastructure.

#5> Consumer Discretionary – retail, automotive, entertainment, travel.

#6> Consumer Staples – food, beverages, household goods, personal care.

#7> Industrials – manufacturing, transportation, aerospace, construction equipment.

#8> Utilities – electricity, water, gas distribution.

#9> Materials – mining, chemicals, forestry products, construction materials.

#10> Real Estate – REITs, property development, commercial real estate.

***

That should be a good start to work with... You can of course tweak it to be 10 other sectors... But these sound reasonable and GOOD to start with.

Best.

questccg
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And then you can have INTERESTING Victory Points (VPs)

Like for Technology... You have $100k, $1M, $10M, $100M goals. Each goal earns you +1 VPs. How about a HIDDEN "Asymmetric" portfolio ... With it's OWN GOALS which are DIFFERENT for each player.

Like Technology = $1M, Consumer Staples = $10M and Real Estate = $100M. If you manage to do this: you get +5 VPs... Or something like that.

Another ALTERNATIVE to simply totaling up $$$.

That's another EURO-Flair to the design. Again just sharing with you some of my thoughts. I'm not sure HOW(?) your game works... So take all this with a Grain of Salt!

Sincerely.

larienna
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It's true that players have

It's true that players have no interest in keeping money because it will not grow. Players could keep money if the market is really shitty and they do not want to take any risks.

So I could assume that dividend paid a single round is the amount of required money. Then take that maximum, multiply it by the number of players (worst case scenario) then see how it can be decomposed into various bills for each player.

Another solution is to keep track of player's fortune as individual bills and try to see the max bills used of each type, or find which bills run out. Its possible to do, but its way more complicated to program. Maybe I will try the previous solution instead for now.

questccg
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How do you assess that

larienna wrote:
It's true that players have no interest in keeping money because it will not grow. Players could keep money if the market is really shitty and they do not want to take any risks...

What is sh!tty??? Too low? In this case it's the PERFECT time to BUY. Too High? In this case it's the PERFECT time to SELL. There is no real sh!tty time for the market. It's in either case.

Average peaks are probably NEUTRAL but could go UP or DOWN. That's more risky time TBH.

But yeah, you have to DEFINE: "Really shitty" as to what it means.

Not a good time to BUY??? Then you can sell an make profit with your other stocks. The markets are a bit cyclic in that they can go REAL LOW and then you have a situation where you can RISK buying at the verge of bankruptcy ... OR going to almost $0.00 a share. Or it rebounds and you make a TON of money.

Making a GOOD Stock Market game is HARD. You've got to realize that SOME stocks may be HIGH for a long time and then drop to near $0.00 because of some kind of Market Volatility... Other stocks increase a BIT over time from like $50 to $100 doubling their yield and continue growth based on the performance of the Company and meeting it's sales targets each Quarter.

To me it's too complicated to design. But for you it might be a challenge and you have your own specific approach. I'm just saying it's not something that I would design PERSONALLY. However good on you for trying to re-create a rush of adrenaline when selling HIGH and the risk when buying LOW.

Cheers!

larienna
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My game is more complex than

My game is more complex than a buy low, sell high game. There are situation where buying high could be a good thing because the dividend yields are better.

The mechanism that could create a shitty market is speculation. It's a push your luck mechanism. If the bubble burst, the stock drop immediately to its original value. There could be a situation where all stocks are over evaluated, and you might want to wait for some bubbles to burst before investing.

larienna
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Not sure if you would be

Not sure if you would be interested, I decided to post the results here. I calculated required liquidity per player by taking the maximum dividend paid to a player. The tests below shows results:

* For 20 players per game, trim from the average the top and bottom player.
* For 50 games, trim from the average 2 top and bottom games
* For each of the 64 card set shape, generate 4 card sets.

As you can see, the ratio of liquidity and fortune range between 15%-20%, since It was for 4 players, that makes between 60-80%. So I could say that the amount of money = the max fortune average of a player.

Here are the results ordered by fortune to give you an idea of what I am dealing with.

Shape Fortune Liquidity (ratio)
455 944$ 130$ (0.137712)
525 998$ 118$ (0.118236)
555 1066$ 132$ (0.123827)
535 1109$ 137$ (0.123535)
525 1156$ 132$ (0.114187)
435 1234$ 156$ (0.126418)
555 1475$ 153$ (0.103729)
354 1611$ 205$ (0.127250)
425 1739$ 272$ (0.156412)
534 1779$ 213$ (0.119730)
545 1792$ 268$ (0.149554)
545 2035$ 343$ (0.168550)
454 2088$ 296$ (0.141762)
455 2192$ 319$ (0.145529)
425 2280$ 381$ (0.167105)
555 2294$ 213$ (0.092851)
525 2382$ 398$ (0.167086)
535 2498$ 403$ (0.161329)
535 2516$ 414$ (0.164547)
535 2524$ 282$ (0.111727)
444 2572$ 420$ (0.163297)
355 2842$ 437$ (0.153765)
545 2907$ 291$ (0.100103)
554 3126$ 491$ (0.157070)
354 3168$ 484$ (0.152778)
324 3451$ 520$ (0.150681)
555 3456$ 324$ (0.093750)
444 3479$ 517$ (0.148606)
524 4064$ 650$ (0.159941)
544 4305$ 741$ (0.172125)
534 4748$ 849$ (0.178812)
554 4916$ 945$ (0.192229)
354 5039$ 689$ (0.136733)
425 5135$ 864$ (0.168257)
355 5208$ 766$ (0.147081)
335 5217$ 474$ (0.090857)
424 5351$ 691$ (0.129135)
445 5361$ 818$ (0.152583)
524 5635$ 739$ (0.131145)
553 5663$ 647$ (0.114250)
424 6065$ 1025$ (0.169002)
425 6080$ 1007$ (0.165625)
524 6118$ 1121$ (0.183230)
234 6526$ 747$ (0.114465)
554 6657$ 1382$ (0.207601)
352 6664$ 1053$ (0.158013)
553 6730$ 1046$ (0.155423)
523 6993$ 1142$ (0.163306)
525 7075$ 1368$ (0.193357)
453 7129$ 1057$ (0.148268)
335 7185$ 808$ (0.112457)
453 7249$ 1035$ (0.142778)
542 7321$ 1205$ (0.164595)
245 7376$ 627$ (0.085005)
454 7617$ 1041$ (0.136668)
455 7630$ 950$ (0.124509)
435 7649$ 1539$ (0.201203)
235 7656$ 784$ (0.102403)
553 7898$ 1300$ (0.164599)
325 8472$ 1342$ (0.158404)
334 8553$ 979$ (0.114463)
424 8572$ 1341$ (0.156440)
445 8657$ 1369$ (0.158138)
543 9084$ 1568$ (0.172611)
552 9279$ 1701$ (0.183317)
452 9342$ 1857$ (0.198780)
345 9422$ 1139$ (0.120887)
445 9456$ 1384$ (0.146362)
445 9484$ 1145$ (0.120730)
443 9733$ 1693$ (0.173944)
335 9743$ 1328$ (0.136303)
255 9839$ 975$ (0.099095)
335 9966$ 1474$ (0.147903)
534 10077$ 1788$ (0.177434)
444 11298$ 1926$ (0.170473)
333 11510$ 2002$ (0.173936)
542 11727$ 1990$ (0.169694)
534 12117$ 2445$ (0.201783)
524 12247$ 2320$ (0.189434)
443 12457$ 1736$ (0.139359)
442 12544$ 2125$ (0.169404)
435 13158$ 2138$ (0.162487)
345 14140$ 1853$ (0.131047)
554 14157$ 2809$ (0.198418)
533 14360$ 2568$ (0.178830)
545 15885$ 2815$ (0.177211)
543 16445$ 2949$ (0.179325)
434 16748$ 2955$ (0.176439)
544 16845$ 3532$ (0.209676)
433 17011$ 2836$ (0.166716)
552 17083$ 2614$ (0.153018)
453 17722$ 2601$ (0.146767)
324 19740$ 3269$ (0.165603)
235 20075$ 1759$ (0.087621)
532 20301$ 3641$ (0.179351)
544 20359$ 3506$ (0.172209)
254 20688$ 3257$ (0.157434)
552 20814$ 3272$ (0.157202)
434 21285$ 2889$ (0.135729)
523 21999$ 3755$ (0.170690)
523 22377$ 4158$ (0.185816)
424 22527$ 4607$ (0.204510)
225 22670$ 3145$ (0.138730)
355 22919$ 3608$ (0.157424)
542 24388$ 4594$ (0.188371)
423 25136$ 4770$ (0.189768)
452 25562$ 4781$ (0.187035)
344 25684$ 3132$ (0.121944)
522 25875$ 4857$ (0.187710)
325 26180$ 3718$ (0.142017)
245 26410$ 2581$ (0.097728)
434 26984$ 4818$ (0.178550)
444 27635$ 3244$ (0.117387)
522 27981$ 4689$ (0.167578)
334 28181$ 3701$ (0.131330)
325 28508$ 4023$ (0.141118)
434 28567$ 6194$ (0.216824)
443 28585$ 5083$ (0.177821)
533 29708$ 6467$ (0.217685)
224 30471$ 3535$ (0.116012)
522 31161$ 6123$ (0.196496)
454 31992$ 5905$ (0.184577)
353 32133$ 5503$ (0.171257)
543 32674$ 6851$ (0.209677)
435 32698$ 5661$ (0.173130)
255 33122$ 3368$ (0.101685)
225 33158$ 3169$ (0.095573)
442 33207$ 6228$ (0.187551)
225 34343$ 3705$ (0.107882)
353 35169$ 5957$ (0.169382)
432 35217$ 6635$ (0.188403)
423 35982$ 7254$ (0.201601)
532 36286$ 6063$ (0.167089)
544 36388$ 8365$ (0.229883)
553 36443$ 7061$ (0.193755)
333 36965$ 6053$ (0.163749)
334 37244$ 5171$ (0.138841)
255 38124$ 5495$ (0.144135)
543 38308$ 7828$ (0.204344)
355 39340$ 4429$ (0.112583)
522 39509$ 8050$ (0.203751)
443 39802$ 7967$ (0.200166)
533 39935$ 8297$ (0.207763)
422 40839$ 7702$ (0.188594)
345 41694$ 6266$ (0.150285)
442 45018$ 8035$ (0.178484)
325 46521$ 7267$ (0.156209)
345 47233$ 8319$ (0.176127)
422 48393$ 10092$ (0.208543)
235 49081$ 6396$ (0.130315)
542 49546$ 10873$ (0.219453)
344 49906$ 8332$ (0.166954)
352 52185$ 9031$ (0.173057)
244 52311$ 8359$ (0.159794)
532 55989$ 11149$ (0.199128)
454 56180$ 10136$ (0.180420)
224 57099$ 7580$ (0.132752)
254 57159$ 7948$ (0.139051)
532 57359$ 10697$ (0.186492)
244 60480$ 7254$ (0.119940)
343 60635$ 9452$ (0.155884)
233 69447$ 10692$ (0.153959)
342 69894$ 11619$ (0.166237)
433 69904$ 13018$ (0.186227)
343 72376$ 14190$ (0.196059)
455 72939$ 10612$ (0.145491)
324 75118$ 13685$ (0.182180)
252 75563$ 11650$ (0.154176)
234 79085$ 8994$ (0.113726)
353 81369$ 15205$ (0.186865)
343 85944$ 14068$ (0.163688)
353 92332$ 18156$ (0.196638)
344 98918$ 17897$ (0.180928)
245 105162$ 15200$ (0.144539)
233 105998$ 22796$ (0.215061)
324 106958$ 18843$ (0.176172)
255 107827$ 14791$ (0.137173)
523 108827$ 21216$ (0.194952)
322 109278$ 21072$ (0.192829)
354 111283$ 20407$ (0.183379)
253 115451$ 17891$ (0.154966)
423 116368$ 23290$ (0.200141)
235 118192$ 18739$ (0.158547)
352 121386$ 24410$ (0.201094)
234 121909$ 18028$ (0.147881)
442 125359$ 17463$ (0.139304)
223 126336$ 20385$ (0.161355)
533 127398$ 24681$ (0.193731)
433 128715$ 25604$ (0.198920)
245 133383$ 19498$ (0.146181)
453 135274$ 22725$ (0.167992)
552 137143$ 25278$ (0.184319)
432 138672$ 26435$ (0.190630)
423 141980$ 28141$ (0.198204)
323 151275$ 24781$ (0.163814)
243 152090$ 20993$ (0.138030)
254 157050$ 26165$ (0.166603)
422 163080$ 32224$ (0.197596)
332 187384$ 30153$ (0.160916)
232 187743$ 34886$ (0.185818)
422 212048$ 43585$ (0.205543)
322 215885$ 40461$ (0.187419)
452 217490$ 41732$ (0.191880)
225 224663$ 36138$ (0.160854)
242 226860$ 36556$ (0.161139)
432 229403$ 44749$ (0.195067)
432 236092$ 46843$ (0.198410)
224 242494$ 36440$ (0.150272)
334 270912$ 44885$ (0.165681)
433 279706$ 57723$ (0.206370)
333 295126$ 60020$ (0.203371)
254 310319$ 54693$ (0.176248)
243 328344$ 47523$ (0.144735)
342 341234$ 69370$ (0.203292)
323 342221$ 64374$ (0.188107)
342 366382$ 62549$ (0.170721)
242 367144$ 65761$ (0.179115)
323 374260$ 64377$ (0.172011)
352 387420$ 66866$ (0.172593)
223 387930$ 72756$ (0.187549)
253 397305$ 63350$ (0.159449)
233 420731$ 73126$ (0.173807)
253 428422$ 81806$ (0.190947)
332 468959$ 75521$ (0.161040)
234 479396$ 88991$ (0.185632)
344 489090$ 99270$ (0.202969)
244 500066$ 95064$ (0.190103)
223 517698$ 93741$ (0.181073)
243 534422$ 92732$ (0.173518)
323 580936$ 123224$ (0.212113)
253 589302$ 118787$ (0.201572)
242 626311$ 111352$ (0.177790)
252 642788$ 115818$ (0.180181)
222 672879$ 120284$ (0.178760)
222 680381$ 117942$ (0.173347)
342 685212$ 122146$ (0.178260)
252 686643$ 131440$ (0.191424)
322 742964$ 125462$ (0.168867)
233 782480$ 148624$ (0.189940)
232 786180$ 132968$ (0.169132)
332 810888$ 140947$ (0.173818)
232 879096$ 155216$ (0.176563)
452 898786$ 174154$ (0.193766)
322 919164$ 169206$ (0.184087)
222 1060126$ 188539$ (0.177846)
343 1076653$ 195309$ (0.181404)
223 1272002$ 238510$ (0.187508)
224 1278682$ 279078$ (0.218254)
252 1380539$ 249938$ (0.181044)
244 1503425$ 305724$ (0.203352)
332 1532206$ 267746$ (0.174745)
222 1914480$ 376910$ (0.196873)
232 2421325$ 508735$ (0.210106)
242 2683425$ 540546$ (0.201439)
243 2891394$ 596077$ (0.206156)
333 3022156$ 630150$ (0.208510)

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