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Miniatures Skirmish + CCG game: need feedback

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budleiser
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Joined: 07/28/2011

Sup guys,

I've got a great miniatures tabletop game I've been working on for awhile. It's a lot like playing Final Fantasy Tactics and magic the gathering.

Basically you start with one guy in play called your Summoner. You draw a hand of cards from your deck. Any card can be played as a resource. And you cast spells each turn to try and beat down the other Summoners. Summon Champions nearby, equip them and yourself with equipment cards, and use Sorceries to change the game.

We'll be tweaking the power levels of the cards for awhile to come. It's already a great fun game. But theres a key mehanic that we really need to solve.

Should damage be permanent? Or should champions have a lower HP amount and heal everyturn?

If your interested in trying the game and helping me with your feedback post and I will set you up.

Thanks guys,
Bud

omni989
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Joined: 04/30/2011
Hey I'm very interested in

Hey I'm very interested in trying the game. it sounds fun.

Im working on a miniatures skirmish game of my own but it seems quite different to this.

Do the summoned champions move around the tabletop and fight or are they stationery?

Anyway send me what ever I need to give you feedback on ill pm u my email address

budleiser
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Joined: 07/28/2011
The champions move around.

The champions move around.

non-moving champions would be a completely different game but could be interesting if the map/game was somehow designed for it.

boardgamer4life
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Joined: 11/03/2011
damage.

Based on the playtesting i have done on this game with you,

It depends of the type of play style you want bud. If monsters keep damage, then IMHO this will occur:

1) adds fiddly-ness to the game, keeping track of health.
2) good creatures will turn into chump blockers and suicide runs when they are severely damaged.
3) low cost, low ATK value creatures are more valuable since they damage will stay on the creature instead of dissipate at the end of the turn.
3) lesser tactical strategy since you can chip away over multiple turns

If monsters heal every turn IMHO:

1) a bit less fiddly-ness since damage is not kept from turn to turn.
2) high hp characters become harder to kill, possibly becoming a wall in a certain point of view.
3) does not allow healing spells.
4) greater tactical strategy since players would have to take down foes in one turn.
5) ranged attacks more significant (i.e more attackers are crucial to get over the threshold)

budleiser
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Joined: 07/28/2011
Thanks for the feedback Andy

Thanks for the feedback Andy :)
That's alot of information to go over. Let me chunk it down and give my thoughts on it.

boardgamer4life wrote:
Based on the playtesting i have done on this game with you,

It depends of the type of play style you want bud.

I'd like games to last about 45mins to an 1 hour. (Assuming both players know how to play) And I'd like the game to be strategic with a variance and luck. Hence the deck of cards. I'd like 3 styles of play to be possible

Aggro - Go almost entirely for the enemy Summoner

Mid - Go after key Champions while beating on Summoner

Control - Focus on killing all of the champions then the Summoner

And maybe thats what makes it so hard to design.

Quote:
If monsters keep damage, then IMHO this will occur:

1) adds fiddly-ness to the game, keeping track of health.
2) good creatures will turn into chump blockers and suicide runs when they are severely damaged.
3) low cost, low ATK value creatures are more valuable since they damage will stay on the creature instead of dissipate at the end of the turn.
3) lesser tactical strategy since you can chip away over multiple turns

1: With card sleeves and dry erase marker I really didn't think it was hard. If they have to keep track of more then life I can see this.
2: And?
3: And thats good
3b) Less? No just different. If anything it might be MORE since you have to plan ahead.

Quote:

If monsters heal every turn IMHO:

1) a bit less fiddly-ness since damage is not kept from turn to turn.
2) high hp characters become harder to kill, possibly becoming a wall in a certain point of view.
3) does not allow healing spells.
4) greater tactical strategy since players would have to take down foes in one turn.
5) ranged attacks more significant (i.e more attackers are crucial to get over the threshold)


[/quote]

1) I like that
2) Something to be careful about
3) Elemental Counters (Poison, Ice etc) are a form of permanent damage, so spells would effect that. Spells could also "prevent" damage so its like a more proactive form of healing.
4) It does encourage players to go after champions since they are easier to gang up on and kill. But that is leading to a problem as well.
5) Agreed and I like that.

budleiser
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Joined: 07/28/2011
Killer idea: we're going to

Killer idea: we're going to test: instead of having 1 summoner with 60hp in play, were going to split it into 3 with 20-25 hp.

Maaartin
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Joined: 05/15/2011
Damage both permanent and transient

budleiser wrote:
Should damage be permanent? Or should champions have a lower HP amount and heal everyturn?

Depending on the number of units and implementation, the fiddleness can get really bad. So using permanent damage for only some units (e.g. only for the strongest or for the most important ones) might be the solution. Having only a few units for which you need to keep track of their health allows e.g. using a health track (or health coins or whatever) for each of them.

Concerning strategy, it might get more interesting than both having permanent damage only or having transient damage only. Concerning theme, it might get hard to explain.

budleiser
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Joined: 07/28/2011
Is this Matt? There was

Is this Matt?

There was another game I was working on. (Never went anywhere with it) that did something like that. "Champions" would heal at the end of each turn but "Vehicles" (Space ships) would not.

In a way we are doing that already with the Summoners. But it makes a huge difference in play style if the Guardians (previously Champions) are one way or the other. And I'm not against there being a mix for Guardians, but in a first release it's too complex I think. Something better to release later once you expect people to actually understand the game.

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