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Get creative with your Criticism

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evansmind244
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jonathanflike
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Hmm

Is this to play with family or did you want to sell this?

questccg
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Aside from Roll & Move...

Personally I think I would hand over the game to a Graphic Artist to re-design the board. To me it looks like a board with colors + clip-art.

The Score Pad needs some major re-design also (graphically - not functionally). It's just a "white" card with shapes. Good for a prototype, but not a finished game.

I'm guessing that it was a "one-man-show" that put this game together, right?

Because it is "Roll & Move", and is very seasonal - I'm guessing people might play it during the Christmas Holidays. But you NEED a "Graphic Artist" to just re-design several of the components.

IMHO this looks like a "nice" prototype but is not Production ready for a final game that could be sold in FLGSs. Secondly because it's very seasonal - I'm not sure how many people would buy such a game. Maybe during Thanksgiving and Christmas... What about in Summer??? I think in this case the "theme" has MAJOR drawbacks. Again one designer's perspective...

Best luck with your game!

Note: because the game itself is so TIED to Christmas, I don't think you can "re-theme" it. I was thinking something like "Ultimate Pool Party!" where you go out and prepare and get a Keg, booze, party girls, etc. Obviously not a Kid-Friendly game - just seem what theme you might be able to use to make the game more accessible - and playable 365 days a year...

Or maybe "Happy Birthday" instead of Christmas - IDK just thinking.

radioactivemouse
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It's very obvious...

It's very obvious that this game was Monopoly inspired.

With that said, while this game is very common to the public, it's a game that isn't too liked in the board game community.

Note that while Hasbro tends to release Monopoly games that are heavily themed, they have the money to acquire the IP rights of all the variants they sell. Plus the IPs they acquire already have a strong fan base. Because your game is very obviously a Monopoly variant, it's very possible that Hasbro will cease and desist on your game.

Still, I'm pretty sure those aren't the words you want to hear, so I'll just give some "criticism".

Roll-and-move games are heavily based on luck...where you end up is entirely up to the roll of the dice. Ultimately, it doesn't really give much of a choice to the player...so if I were you, I'd adjust the way the roll determines the move.

-Just like Monopoly, maybe you can introduce a third die (the Speed Die) that will speed up where the player ends up.
-Maybe you can have "actions" during your turn. When you roll both die, you can choose which die gives the actions and which one gives the movement.
-You need to add something that will give more of a hook than just a Christmas themed Monopoly variant. What you have is just not strong enough.

It's not that roll-and-move games are bad. Formula D is a game that takes that concept and does really well for it.

Also be aware of what questccg said. The graphic design of the board is plain at best and unreadable at worst. You have spaces that are just the text (which is too small for the space it occupies) and you have spaces that have so many transitional colors that it drowns out the text (see spaces like Ultra Toys).

But what really makes it hard is that your kerning (the space between the letters) is so tight that your letters run into each other and make it extremely hard to read. That's a BIG no no. Game design is all about communication and if you cannot effectively communicate your game through your board, it's your fault.

If you're doing all the game graphic design keep in mind that contrast is something you need to keep in mind. Every thing you have on the board needs to be readable at various distances (say, as far as 3-4 feet away) Choose your colors wisely. You have a lot of basic colors...use tints (adding white to a color) or shades (adding black) to have more variety.

And please decorate the spaces. Plain color with text is so bland. I know it's a prototype, but at least put a frame on it or put an outer glow on the text.

There's so much I could say about the graphic design itself, but I'll just leave it there.

Please understand that I have no clue about who you are or what you do or your intentions of this game other than what you've posted in your initial post. You asked for criticism, I'm giving it. I'm treating this as a game that (I assume) you want to make money off of and, to be honest, this isn't an idea that will sell in my opinion.

Play more games. See what's out there. Know your industry.

Good luck.

evansmind244
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Both

Jonathanflike, I want to sell this. Failing that I will continue to play it with my Family!! It is actually a pretty fun game for a guy like me.

evansmind244
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Thank You

Questccg I've read a lot of your post on this website and I value your opinion.
1- I learned Illustrator CC on my own and this is where I'm at with Graphic Design. When I get the rules and the game to where those play testing it are excited about it, I may invest into my own idea.
2- I do love the Tree on the score sheet which has been fun for quite a few players to draw in their Lights and Ornaments. It does great for down time between turns. Agree whole heartedly on the Art. If I get this game to a place of comfort for those who do enjoy roll and play games I will higher an artist to bring the game to life.
3- I've done everything on the game from day one!!!
4- The whole point of the game is to be the game you break out Thanksgiving and play through Christmas.
5- I see the draw back for the game being seasonal but when its out of season my wife and I just don't sing the Carols. 6- I have billions of idea's and I have thought that I could do series with this game. Happy Birthday, Halloween, Valentines day.......etc......
Thank you so much for taking time to give me your advice and insight. I appreciate all of it.

evansmind244
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Masterpiece

Radioactivemouse, It is true that Monopoly was a game I grew up playing but Masterpiece is the game that truly inspired Holiday Fever. Still my favorite game of all time. I'm a luck guy. It fascinates me in the same way most Board Gamers are fascinated with Strategy and Mechanics. Luck does something for me that Strategy can not do which is make me ponder WHAT DOES IT MEAN!!!!! hahahahah
1- I honestly don't agree that my game is a Monopoly variant but please elaborate on exactly why because I would not want to get into some kind of trouble with Hasbro?
2- Luck is the entire purpose of the game. With luck you will find yourself winning Miracles, Christmas Blasters, rolling Doubles achieving the Highest Score ever, acquiring the most valuable gift ever etc.... which in turn gives a great deal of replay ability...... trying to beat old scores, or someone else score. This game is all about luck and if you don't have any luck well its fun to see just how unlucky you can be, and I'm trying to put it all into a sort of Journal to be tracked over the life of the game!!! Imagine a Baseball card protector book that fits the Score Cards with a slot for each: Highest Score, Lowest Score, Most Gift Sets, Most Miracles, Highest total for Gift Value Cards etc.... You have space on the Score Card to write something memorable down and maybe 10 years later you look back on some of the amazingly lucky things that happened over the years. How may years can dad's high score hold for example... I will find a way as I shave the game closer and closer to a FUN Family Tradition to get this across.
3-The Graphic design I know needs a lot of work, all of which is out of my league. I can do the Kerning and I will clean that up for when I print out another board. I definitely will need a pro for the Graphic Design if and when I get to the point of investing some money into this game.
4-Thanks for your advice. I do need to play more games, but I'm the type of guy who doesn't mind sitting at a Black Jack table for 8 hours!! Luck is what lights my fire when it comes to a game. I have no back ground in anything design, let alone Board Game design. I've been nothing but impressed getting feedback from Board Game Designers. The smartest and most creative people on the planet in my opinion. Thanks for your time and wisdom.

radioactivemouse
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Monopoly

evansmind244 wrote:
Radioactivemouse, It is true that Monopoly was a game I grew up playing but Masterpiece is the game that truly inspired Holiday Fever. Still my favorite game of all time. I'm a luck guy. It fascinates me in the same way most Board Gamers are fascinated with Strategy and Mechanics. Luck does something for me that Strategy can not do which is make me ponder WHAT DOES IT MEAN!!!!! hahahahah
1- I honestly don't agree that my game is a Monopoly variant but please elaborate on exactly why because I would not want to get into some kind of trouble with Hasbro?
2- Luck is the entire purpose of the game. With luck you will find yourself winning Miracles, Christmas Blasters, rolling Doubles achieving the Highest Score ever, acquiring the most valuable gift ever etc.... which in turn gives a great deal of replay ability...... trying to beat old scores, or someone else score. This game is all about luck and if you don't have any luck well its fun to see just how unlucky you can be, and I'm trying to put it all into a sort of Journal to be tracked over the life of the game!!! Imagine a Baseball card protector book that fits the Score Cards with a slot for each: Highest Score, Lowest Score, Most Gift Sets, Most Miracles, Highest total for Gift Value Cards etc.... You have space on the Score Card to write something memorable down and maybe 10 years later you look back on some of the amazingly lucky things that happened over the years. How may years can dad's high score hold for example... I will find a way as I shave the game closer and closer to a FUN Family Tradition to get this across.
3-The Graphic design I know needs a lot of work, all of which is out of my league. I can do the Kerning and I will clean that up for when I print out another board. I definitely will need a pro for the Graphic Design if and when I get to the point of investing some money into this game.
4-Thanks for your advice. I do need to play more games, but I'm the type of guy who doesn't mind sitting at a Black Jack table for 8 hours!! Luck is what lights my fire when it comes to a game. I have no back ground in anything design, let alone Board Game design. I've been nothing but impressed getting feedback from Board Game Designers. The smartest and most creative people on the planet in my opinion. Thanks for your time and wisdom.

1- On the Monopoly variant. Regardless of whether you think it's not a Monopoly variant, the basic graphic design of the board screams Monopoly. Rectangular spaces, roll-and-move around a board...then looking closer, an "Institution" where the "Jail" was in Monopoly (regardless of what is currently does) and the "Family Vacation" where "Free Parking" was (implying a safe place). You have spaces that call for random event cards (Naughty or Nice) just like Chance and Community Chest. You use money as a primary economic system and your objective is very close to Monopoly's: Have the highest Net Worth. While individually, they may not be considered infringement, it's the collective expression that mimics Monopoly...even down to the look of the board. ANY common person can look at the board and immediately think Monopoly. If it's not that obvious to you, then you really need to ask random people what they think. Hasbro CAN and WILL action your game if it continues on like it is.

2 - Luck is a great mechanic to help people that are behind feel like they have a chance at winning a game. The problem with games having all luck is that the player won't feel like they really won the game through their own skill as much as they'd think they had nothing to do with the win. Take Candy Land for example. It's a pure luck game, but there's no way I could say that I can master that game in any way. The downside is that luck also has the tendency of making the rich richer and poor poorer, making for a horrible gaming experience if you're on the losing end. You want to let the player feel like their decisions led to their victory...otherwise there's no real "game" involved. Give the player more decisions that affect the game.

3 - You will need a Graphic Designer that can get behind your game. To be honest, I would redesign your board to look as far away from Monopoly as you can, then propose it to a potential Graphic Designer to spruce it up. If you just take all the text away from your board...people will no doubt think Monopoly.

4 - I tell my game design students all the time to learn from other games...also learn from life. I say, "If you've played Monopoly all your life and you were asked to create a game, what kind of game would you make? A roll-and-move game where you're going around a board and looks and feels like Monopoly." I'm sorry to say but you're the prime example of what I tell my students...I've been saying this quote for years.

The board game industry has grown exponentially since the turn of the century. If you do a little research, you'd see how far analog gaming has come...check out reviews, look at gameplay videos...the amount of NEW games that release every year number in the THOUSANDS. Game have now incorporated 3d printed miniatures, custom dice, high quality cards, even phone app integration. It's mind-boggling.

To put it in video game terms, it's like you're designing a game that looks and plays like Pac-Man, but expecting to compete with Call of Duty and Battlefield.

Analog games have become so much more innovative and creative that even innovative games don't sell because the market is so diverse.

Look, I don't intend to shoot you down, but it would be worse if you continued on your way, release your game and either 1) not sell because it's too reliant on luck 2) not sell because people don't like the way it looks 3) not like it because it looks like Monopoly or 4) gets C&D by Hasbro (or take you to court), throwing away all that hard work.

jonathanflike
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Okay then let's make some tweaks

evansmind244 wrote:
Jonathanflike, I want to sell this. Failing that I will continue to play it with my Family!! It is actually a pretty fun game for a guy like me.

So first and foremost I would take all the advice given to heart. The other members have pretty much summed up what my concerns are. I'll just discuss presentation of the board (ignoring the fact it is nearly identical to Monopoly). Obviously a lot of work went into this as you have pretty much linked us everything for this game as far as components are concerned. That being said, there is a difference between working hard and working smart, and I think it would be good to take a few steps back and look at the presentation of the board itself. I took one look at that, and I was immediately hesitant to look at the other Google Drive links. The board is dense with things going on, and there doesn't seem to be any kind of an acknowledgment to color theory. Color matters, and I would take some time and come up with a cohesive color palette that links the entire board together. Monopoly uses several colors on the board, but they do so in such a way to 1) limit color differences to the small band at the top of the space and 2)use colors that are visually appealing on the four sides of the board for each respective side. Here is a link to a basic article on color theory.

http://www.tigercolor.com/color-lab/color-theory/color-theory-intro.htm

Secondly, gradients are not your friend. Though they are a quick way to create depth, if used too frequently or unskillfully, they can look cheap and incoherent. The multi-colored gradients in particular on your board are extremely unappealing. What are those gradients even trying to say? Every color choice, gradient, and pattern used in design is supposed to send a message or tell a story. When you look at your board, you need to think to yourself do these decisions help convey what I want it to convey. Your game is about Christmas and the holidays, but there is little in the color choices to allude to that. We are left to find the vector images of trees to say to ourselves oh yes this is a holiday game. So first and foremost, make a cohesive color palette and stick with it for the board. Secondly, don't use jarring gradients. Thirdly, Change the bold font. Fourth, lower the saturation of some of the colors if black font is going to sit on top of them. You'll notice in Monopoly no black font is on a dark color. Make those changes first and then you can address the dubious intellectual property issues you have.

It is much easier for me at least to delve into the gameplay issues etc. when I have something that I can look at that is appealing to the eye. First impressions are important and by making a good one with a solid looking board, you open your audience to be more forgiving with the rest of it all critique wise.

let-off studios
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Good Luck

I do agree with the color theory statements jonathanflike made. Yeah, a little brush-up on some of it would be worthwhile. Particularly if you want to sell this game. I'd also recommend you set up a few of the rules as "optional" so you can have separate rulesets that range from basic kids stuff to the full-complexity, full-featured epic version.

However, I think there's definitely a market for a game like this. In the center of the board it states, "A Family Tradition." Having a game like this that is highly-dependent on luck (and surprises, good or bad), brought out once a year as part of holiday celebrations, becomes a significant part of family traditions. In these environments, people don't want a strategic victory, they want a harmless, narrative experience.

The fact it uses a calendar to limit turns adds to the narrative, is coherent with theme, and limits the game from going on forever. Rolling dice and paying/collecting money is accessible to your mom and your uncle and their grandkids alike. The take-that mechanics involved in the cards just add to the "family game night" aesthetic.

I could easily see this being sold in a Hallmark/gift card store, or sold at those shopping-mall kiosks round this time of year. Would I ever see it in my local game store? Hell no. But that's clearly not the target audience for this game. You're not making a Eurogame, this isn't a "TI3 killer" or whatever. It's a mass-market holiday niche game. Totally approachable. Sell it at holiday bazaars in tourist towns. I was just in Ocean City, MD, during their weekend holiday festival, and people would totally drop a 20 on something like this.

I say go for it, man. Touch up your graphic design - even starting from scratch with a professional artist's input - to do it up right, print up about two dozen copies on The Game Crafter or whatever, and see where it goes. It'll make you happy, right? Then do it. Just don't expect it to be on Board Game Geek. But you don't want their money anyway.

Good luck to you! :D

questccg
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I too agree with Jonathan

jonathanflike wrote:
So first and foremost I would take all the advice given to heart. The other members have pretty much summed up what my concerns are. I'll just discuss presentation of the board (ignoring the fact it is nearly identical to Monopoly)...

Jonathan pretty much summed what I thought about the board: TOO BUSY! The choice of colors such be that it makes it EASIER to understand the game, not blind you from too much color. I did say in my own post, that the board needs to be "re-designed" by a Graphic Artist.

If you want to be able to SELL the game, well you'll need a more polished set of components (including the board itself).

And since it's something that would maybe sell in a Hallmark store or a gift shop and NOT a FLGS, well maybe branding it a "Family Tradition" could help sell the game in that context.

But you're at the HALF-WAY point of development. Now you need to hire people to re-vamp and improve your components. Maybe with nicer components the game might sell...

Best of luck with your game!

evansmind244
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Monopoly

Radioactivemouse
1- I made the board similar to Monopoly simply for ease of creating a board. I've come up with different board idea's but I can't create any of them. Originally the board had 44 spaces which was difficult to fit onto the few standard sized game boards so I changed it to 40 (just like Monopoly) simply for ease of getting a prototype printed which people could play.
If I change the board to something completely different and it give no feel what ever for Monopoly would I still be infringing with the mechanics of the game?
2- I feel that there are some meaningful choices in the game that do affect the game. There are PlayAnytime Naughty or Nice cards which allow a player to strategically steal a Light or Ornament from another player knocking them out of the Month of December, or they could use that card to steal a Big Gift from another player. Many games this ends up changing the winner of the game. It is luck to get one of those cards..... but once you have one there are meaningful decisions you can make with them. Attentive players can remember where other players set their gifts and guess their valuable gifts which definitely can change the course of the game.... again if you're lucky and land on or draw the cards that allow you to guess other players gifts. The choice between acquiring lights and ornaments vs only buying gifts is a meaning full decision which can affect the outcome of the game. Also players can make the choice of setting a record for the Highest Gift ever with the risk of another player stealing that gift. You may not win the game but your record for having acquired a highest gift in the history of the game is meaningful.... of course it would be lucky to get valuable Gift Value Cards but in my humble uneducated opinion this game has some meaningful, fun choices that do affect the outcome of the game.
3- Agreed on the Monopoly but will I be safe just changing the look of the board?
4- When you buy and collect you are smart to buy things that will appreciate in value over time. One concern for a collector would be that for example all the young adults of the 80's who loved the iroc camaro z28 are now coming or will be coming in the next 10 years of age where the've got a good job, money saved and now they want to buy there favorite old car..... the price of Camaro's goes up when the generation who loved them gets to of age to collect them...... In my humble uneducated opinion the kids who grew up playing Monopoly, Masterpiece, Yahtzee, Sorry, Memory etc........... are now having kids and looking for games to play with there kids etc....... That is my Uneducated Theory behind my game Holiday Fever A Family Tradition. I realize that most gamer type's would be uninterested in my game, but there is a much larger group of people out there who still play the classics.... This is my reasoning and thinking as I've been learning and developing this game. My friends and I played call of duty but we played the Atari more..... its just fun playing pac man, pong etc we grew up with those games..... I Think Minecraft is a good example. What do you think about my line of reasoning?
Thank you so much for your advice and knowledge you are sharing with me. I humbly appreciate it.

evansmind244
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jonathanflike, Thank you for

jonathanflike, Thank you for your advice, and the helpful link. I'm always impressed with the knowledge and eagerness to share here at BGDF!! I'll take your advice to heart and start working on color and text. Did you think the baskerville font is a good fit for the game? Do I need to change font type for each space or each group of spaces? Ultimately I will higher a Graphic Designer. Thanks you for your help and advice.

evansmind244
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let-off studios wrote:I do

let-off studios wrote:
I do agree with the color theory statements jonathanflike made. Yeah, a little brush-up on some of it would be worthwhile. Particularly if you want to sell this game. I'd also recommend you set up a few of the rules as "optional" so you can have separate rulesets that range from basic kids stuff to the full-complexity, full-featured epic version.

However, I think there's definitely a market for a game like this. In the center of the board it states, "A Family Tradition." Having a game like this that is highly-dependent on luck (and surprises, good or bad), brought out once a year as part of holiday celebrations, becomes a significant part of family traditions. In these environments, people don't want a strategic victory, they want a harmless, narrative experience.

The fact it uses a calendar to limit turns adds to the narrative, is coherent with theme, and limits the game from going on forever. Rolling dice and paying/collecting money is accessible to your mom and your uncle and their grandkids alike. The take-that mechanics involved in the cards just add to the "family game night" aesthetic.

I could easily see this being sold in a Hallmark/gift card store, or sold at those shopping-mall kiosks round this time of year. Would I ever see it in my local game store? Hell no. But that's clearly not the target audience for this game. You're not making a Eurogame, this isn't a "TI3 killer" or whatever. It's a mass-market holiday niche game. Totally approachable. Sell it at holiday bazaars in tourist towns. I was just in Ocean City, MD, during their weekend holiday festival, and people would totally drop a 20 on something like this.

I say go for it, man. Touch up your graphic design - even starting from scratch with a professional artist's input - to do it up right, print up about two dozen copies on The Game Crafter or whatever, and see where it goes. It'll make you happy, right? Then do it. Just don't expect it to be on Board Game Geek. But you don't want their money anyway.

Good luck to you! :D

I really like the idea of an Epic Version of the rules. Many aspects have been taken out because they caused "complications not depth". You play once you got the game, and the second time through players focus on their limited strategy:
-Trying to get to Christmas or stocking up on Gifts......
-Remembering where other players set their White Elephant Gifts to guess later
-thinking of cool new ways to sketch Lights and Ornaments on your Tree
-Using your Stocking to protect high value Gift Value Cards
-Trying to get the highest possible gift without a Burglar stealing it.
-My favorite is loading a Coal Gift up with many Gift Value Cards baiting a burglar to steal a bunch of debt! In fact that is more fun for me than trying to win the game.
-Singing Christmas Carols is back in vogue with Holiday Fever!
Thinking of a good speech to give the family when you draw certain cards, or fun places to go on vacation.
Thank you for your post you really touched the heart of this game. This isn't a Euro game.... in depth turns and intensive strategy/choices take away from the conversation and character of sheer fun and entertainment this game is designed for. This game is meant to be simple, and also a Holiday Journal of fun around the holidays that families can look back on.... "Dad you've had the highest score for 10 years...
mom you've had the lowest score for 5 years etc"......
Thank you for the motivation to stick with it.

pelle
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I think you are correct that

I think you are correct that there would be an audience for a game like this. However that is a very different market from where most here tend to consider. Those that grew up playing games like Monopoly and that have no serious interest in boardgames, and thus have not played any of the modern games, that will go to buy games like that for their children or grandchildren, are going to most likely buy something off the shelves in one of the big toy stores or other big stores (or what comes up at the first page of games listed on Amazon). Hasbro seems to pretty much own that market, but I guess there are a few other big companies doing well there as well. You would compete against actual official Monopoly games and similar in that market. My guess is that box artwork and brand recognition are huge factors in deciding what games will be bought or not. I would be surprised if buyers spent significant time doing research on game mechanics or reading reviews before deciding to buy your game or some other game.

Most designers on bgdf target the hobby games market where games are mostly printed in much smaller numbers, are at best found in special (rare) game stores, or online. Games that you only find if you are looking for them, and only know about if you are actively looking for new games to buy. It is a completely different market with different requirements.

evansmind244
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pelle wrote:I think you are

pelle wrote:
I think you are correct that there would be an audience for a game like this. However that is a very different market from where most here tend to consider. Those that grew up playing games like Monopoly and that have no serious interest in boardgames, and thus have not played any of the modern games, that will go to buy games like that for their children or grandchildren, are going to most likely buy something off the shelves in one of the big toy stores or other big stores (or what comes up at the first page of games listed on Amazon). Hasbro seems to pretty much own that market, but I guess there are a few other big companies doing well there as well. You would compete against actual official Monopoly games and similar in that market. My guess is that box artwork and brand recognition are huge factors in deciding what games will be bought or not. I would be surprised if buyers spent significant time doing research on game mechanics or reading reviews before deciding to buy your game or some other game.

Most designers on bgdf target the hobby games market where games are mostly printed in much smaller numbers, are at best found in special (rare) game stores, or online. Games that you only find if you are looking for them, and only know about if you are actively looking for new games to buy. It is a completely different market with different requirements.

Thank you for your insight. I have yet to even consider selling this game and how that will work. Branding and of course Art are not my strong points. Just getting this far with Holiday Fever has been an epic journey which has developed so much respect and reverence for those who create anything let alone start a business behind it and sell it.
I'm grateful for BGDF because I've copied and pasted volumes of knowledge from these posts since I've been a member. I figure that as I get closer and closer to a sellable product I will begin to more and more increase my knowledge of marketing, branding and running a business all of which is heavily talked about here.

evansmind244
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Rules and Scoring

I was hoping to get a few comment on how the rules are set up, and if they confuse anyone?
Also I was hoping to get some comments on the Score Cards and having to keep track of Debits and Credits..........adding up the final score? Along with that I hope to get some insight on the Charity Donation Board space explained in the rules.... is it clear that the Cash is only use for charity, and does that make sense?

radioactivemouse
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evansmind244

evansmind244 wrote:
Radioactivemouse
1- I made the board similar to Monopoly simply for ease of creating a board. I've come up with different board idea's but I can't create any of them. Originally the board had 44 spaces which was difficult to fit onto the few standard sized game boards so I changed it to 40 (just like Monopoly) simply for ease of getting a prototype printed which people could play.
If I change the board to something completely different and it give no feel what ever for Monopoly would I still be infringing with the mechanics of the game?
2- I feel that there are some meaningful choices in the game that do affect the game. There are PlayAnytime Naughty or Nice cards which allow a player to strategically steal a Light or Ornament from another player knocking them out of the Month of December, or they could use that card to steal a Big Gift from another player. Many games this ends up changing the winner of the game. It is luck to get one of those cards..... but once you have one there are meaningful decisions you can make with them. Attentive players can remember where other players set their gifts and guess their valuable gifts which definitely can change the course of the game.... again if you're lucky and land on or draw the cards that allow you to guess other players gifts. The choice between acquiring lights and ornaments vs only buying gifts is a meaning full decision which can affect the outcome of the game. Also players can make the choice of setting a record for the Highest Gift ever with the risk of another player stealing that gift. You may not win the game but your record for having acquired a highest gift in the history of the game is meaningful.... of course it would be lucky to get valuable Gift Value Cards but in my humble uneducated opinion this game has some meaningful, fun choices that do affect the outcome of the game.
3- Agreed on the Monopoly but will I be safe just changing the look of the board?
4- When you buy and collect you are smart to buy things that will appreciate in value over time. One concern for a collector would be that for example all the young adults of the 80's who loved the iroc camaro z28 are now coming or will be coming in the next 10 years of age where the've got a good job, money saved and now they want to buy there favorite old car..... the price of Camaro's goes up when the generation who loved them gets to of age to collect them...... In my humble uneducated opinion the kids who grew up playing Monopoly, Masterpiece, Yahtzee, Sorry, Memory etc........... are now having kids and looking for games to play with there kids etc....... That is my Uneducated Theory behind my game Holiday Fever A Family Tradition. I realize that most gamer type's would be uninterested in my game, but there is a much larger group of people out there who still play the classics.... This is my reasoning and thinking as I've been learning and developing this game. My friends and I played call of duty but we played the Atari more..... its just fun playing pac man, pong etc we grew up with those games..... I Think Minecraft is a good example. What do you think about my line of reasoning?
Thank you so much for your advice and knowledge you are sharing with me. I humbly appreciate it.

You told me you don't agree it's a Monopoly variant, then you tell me that you made the board similar to Monopoly for ease of creating a board? Just seems odd.

If you feel like there are meaningful choices to the game that allow it to stand on its own, then I cannot stop you from continuing on with your game. I'm just merely stating what I've noticed in trends and my experience in the board game industry. You say there's enough, I think it either needs to be approached differently or you need to add more.

As far as changing the look of the board, that's just a highly recommended suggestion from me. When I reviewed my post, I remembered that Monopoly was created in the 1920's...I'm not really sure IF the IP is public domain or not, but I DO know that Hasbro has a lockdown on Monopoly-related IPs. Will they sue you? I'm not entirely sure since it's been out for so long.

If I were you, I'd change the board.

With items appreciating over time, I agree that nostalgia can win over modern games. However, your game is NOT currently nostalgia (since it's not even released) and didn't have the window of time that Monopoly, Yahtzee, Sorry, Memory, etc. had. Those games were released in a time when roll-and-move games were the norm and the board game industry was new. Now the industry has changed and you're in a whole new environment than when those other games came out.

Minecraft's beauty resides in its hook. It's digital LEGOS, which hasn't really been done before in any game. While it appears simple, I'll tell you that the creators were ALWAYS working on the game...it's a lot more complicated than it appears.

A Christmas based Monopoly-style game? While there's not many Christmas-themed games, I don't see many people breaking this out outside of Christmas or people that love Monopoly playing this game.

Just my two cents.

questccg
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What I think

radioactivemouse wrote:
...A Christmas based Monopoly-style game? While there's not many Christmas-themed games, I don't see many people breaking this out outside of Christmas or people that love Monopoly playing this game...

I don't see the link between Monopoly and this game. It's not like his spaces are locations or landmarks. Clearly it may be Monopoly-inspired in that the board is square and goes around... However so does Sorry! It too goes around.

Yes it makes you think about "Monopoly". But I believe it is sufficiently different to form it's OWN IP. I don't think Hasbro would have the rights to give a "Cease & Desist" order based on the fact that the author/designer is using a a square board, where players go around. That to my extent is probably the most similarity the game has with Monopoly.

I do however agree with @jay in that I think the breast of the playing of this game is the Thanksgiving season or Christmas Holidays. Could this be something that common people play of Christmas Eve or After Thanksgiving Turkey??? IDK.

But for a fact - I don't think Hasbro can stop him from selling and marketing his game. The commonality is minor and the game is original - even if it is somewhat reminiscent of a game like "Monopoly". There is a sense of familiarity (which is good) because it makes people feel like the game is MORE approachable. While NEW and different styles of Game Play are welcome by most Veteran Gamers, most people who buy games at Toy's R Us are familiar with the Hasbro games... Clue, Sorry!, Monopoly, The Game of Life, etc.

And so having such a game sold at Gift Shops or Hallmark stores - during the Holiday period could garner some attraction and interest. If it's a game most people will relate to (because of Monopoly), well then I say USE that familiarity as much as possible to get people playing the game.

Note: As it stands now, the game is a prototype. The various components are not designed for retail sales. The product needs a serious overhaul. But I do think that this game could sell... Because of it's familiarity with Monopoly but have sufficient difference that it is it's own/separate IP.

It's like designing a CARD GAME. It may have a hand like Poker. But just because both games share a hand, doesn't mean that the card game cannot use a game component of Poker... The board is just one component and mechanically speaking, it's a roll & move game.

Anyways that's my impressions...

pelle
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Yes, there are many other

Yes, there are many other games with a track going around a square board, going back decades if not at least a century before there was Monopoly.

They have been sending lawyers after games called names similar to Monopoly (ending in -opoly), because of trademark reasons, but I never heard about them ever going after any game for just being similar to Monopoly, and there has been many games that are quite similar in many ways, much more than just having a track around a square board. Not that I am a lawyer, but I would not be particularly worried about that aspect.

evansmind244
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You told me you don't agree

You told me you don't agree it's a Monopoly variant, then you tell me that you made the board similar to Monopoly for ease of creating a board? Just seems odd.

If you feel like there are meaningful choices to the game that allow it to stand on its own, then I cannot stop you from continuing on with your game. I'm just merely stating what I've noticed in trends and my experience in the board game industry. You say there's enough, I think it either needs to be approached differently or you need to add more.

As far as changing the look of the board, that's just a highly recommended suggestion from me. When I reviewed my post, I remembered that Monopoly was created in the 1920's...I'm not really sure IF the IP is public domain or not, but I DO know that Hasbro has a lockdown on Monopoly-related IPs. Will they sue you? I'm not entirely sure since it's been out for so long.

If I were you, I'd change the board.

With items appreciating over time, I agree that nostalgia can win over modern games. However, your game is NOT currently nostalgia (since it's not even released) and didn't have the window of time that Monopoly, Yahtzee, Sorry, Memory, etc. had. Those games were released in a time when roll-and-move games were the norm and the board game industry was new. Now the industry has changed and you're in a whole new environment than when those other games came out.

Minecraft's beauty resides in its hook. It's digital LEGOS, which hasn't really been done before in any game. While it appears simple, I'll tell you that the creators were ALWAYS working on the game...it's a lot more complicated than it appears.

A Christmas based Monopoly-style game? While there's not many Christmas-themed games, I don't see many people breaking this out outside of Christmas or people that love Monopoly playing this game.

Just my two cents.[/quote]

Thanks for your two cents. I appreciate your advice, knowledge and experience. It's great to have a Professor shoot holes in my Idea. Much Appreciated. Congratulations on your new baby. We just had one too. She was born on the 15th of November. Merry Christmas.

evansmind244
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questccg

questccg wrote:
radioactivemouse wrote:
...A Christmas based Monopoly-style game? While there's not many Christmas-themed games, I don't see many people breaking this out outside of Christmas or people that love Monopoly playing this game...

I don't see the link between Monopoly and this game. It's not like his spaces are locations or landmarks. Clearly it may be Monopoly-inspired in that the board is square and goes around... However so does Sorry! It too goes around.

Yes it makes you think about "Monopoly". But I believe it is sufficiently different to form it's OWN IP. I don't think Hasbro would have the rights to give a "Cease & Desist" order based on the fact that the author/designer is using a a square board, where players go around. That to my extent is probably the most similarity the game has with Monopoly.

I do however agree with @jay in that I think the breast of the playing of this game is the Thanksgiving season or Christmas Holidays. Could this be something that common people play of Christmas Eve or After Thanksgiving Turkey??? IDK.

But for a fact - I don't think Hasbro can stop him from selling and marketing his game. The commonality is minor and the game is original - even if it is somewhat reminiscent of a game like "Monopoly". There is a sense of familiarity (which is good) because it makes people feel like the game is MORE approachable. While NEW and different styles of Game Play are welcome by most Veteran Gamers, most people who buy games at Toy's R Us are familiar with the Hasbro games... Clue, Sorry!, Monopoly, The Game of Life, etc.

And so having such a game sold at Gift Shops or Hallmark stores - during the Holiday period could garner some attraction and interest. If it's a game most people will relate to (because of Monopoly), well then I say USE that familiarity as much as possible to get people playing the game.

Note: As it stands now, the game is a prototype. The various components are not designed for retail sales. The product needs a serious overhaul. But I do think that this game could sell... Because of it's familiarity with Monopoly but have sufficient difference that it is it's own/separate IP.

It's like designing a CARD GAME. It may have a hand like Poker. But just because both games share a hand, doesn't mean that the card game cannot use a game component of Poker... The board is just one component and mechanically speaking, it's a roll & move game.

Anyways that's my impressions...

Questccg, I too feel my game has its own IP and I'm grateful for your perspective. I was a little perplexed the past few days with radioactivemouse commenting that Hasbro would come after me. If he's right that put's A LOT of work down the drain.
I really have thought a lot about the Familiarity with Monopoly too and I think you're right that it could actually attract the target audience for this game because of is familiarity. I always value your opinion and knowledge on this site. Thank you and Merry Christmas.

evansmind244
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Merry Christmas

pelle wrote:
Yes, there are many other games with a track going around a square board, going back decades if not at least a century before there was Monopoly.

They have been sending lawyers after games called names similar to Monopoly (ending in -opoly), because of trademark reasons, but I never heard about them ever going after any game for just being similar to Monopoly, and there has been many games that are quite similar in many ways, much more than just having a track around a square board. Not that I am a lawyer, but I would not be particularly worried about that aspect.

I just find it incredible with the knowledge on BGDF. I know I'm way out of my league here but its great to get feedback from some really smart people. Although I don't have a whole lot of knowledge about the board game industry I do have a Highly Active mind and look forward to commenting where ever I can. Thank you Pelle and have a Merry Christmas.

radioactivemouse
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Sarcasm?

evansmind244 wrote:

Thanks for your two cents. I appreciate your advice, knowledge and experience. It's great to have a Professor shoot holes in my Idea. Much Appreciated. Congratulations on your new baby. We just had one too. She was born on the 15th of November. Merry Christmas.

I sense sarcasm in that post.

But no matter. Every "great" idea will go through its bombardment of slings and arrows. I just call it like I see it and I give suggestions. However, I don't "shoot holes" just to shoot holes.I say why I think so and I present solutions. It's part of giving/receiving criticism.

It's also hard to communicate fully in a forum...heck, I may be wrong about your sarcasm. But my job is as a college instructor and if anything it means I'm only here to help.

Anyways, it's great you have a kid now. My advice would be to make sure you keep raising a kid separate from designing games. Desperation will cause missteps.

Good luck.

evansmind244
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radioactivemouse

radioactivemouse wrote:
evansmind244 wrote:

Thanks for your two cents. I appreciate your advice, knowledge and experience. It's great to have a Professor shoot holes in my Idea. Much Appreciated. Congratulations on your new baby. We just had one too. She was born on the 15th of November. Merry Christmas.

I sense sarcasm in that post.

But no matter. Every "great" idea will go through its bombardment of slings and arrows. I just call it like I see it and I give suggestions. However, I don't "shoot holes" just to shoot holes.I say why I think so and I present solutions. It's part of giving/receiving criticism.

It's also hard to communicate fully in a forum...heck, I may be wrong about your sarcasm. But my job is as a college instructor and if anything it means I'm only here to help.

Anyways, it's great you have a kid now. My advice would be to make sure you keep raising a kid separate from designing games. Desperation will cause missteps.

Good luck.

Thanks and No Sarcasm.... I'm grateful to get your feedback 100%.

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