Anyone interested?

Unfortunately, I don't think this is one of those ideas.

In loving memory...
http://www.flatpackgames.com/

I am disinclined to agree with your detractors, since I think that there is definitely merit in what you propose, although the devil is always in the details, with such things.

I think that a niche opportunity definitely exists, although I would not agree that you should handle the playtesting for games. Perhaps you could offer playtesting as an optional service, but normally, I would think that a game would already be playtested, if it is time to print it - except for perhaps a hard copy or two of a preliminary nature.

I think that a bigger niche exists in the area of being what I will term a facilitator - one who facilitates turning people's board game designs into hard copies. A one-stop-shopping sort of deal, where game designers can turn to you for everything from a decent board for their board game to a wide variety of components and dice.

If you're simply going to be a print type of service, then you might fare better with a print on demand magazine service, more so than just print and play games. Print and play might work well for card games, but for board games, components tend to be a really critical part, I think.

Redcap ...

FlatPackGames is the idea of BGDF user bluesea and your idea is coming from a very similar direction. You may want to PM or e-mail him and have a discussion about the topic.

I'm personally in favor of anyone who wants to try to bring something new to a market.

-Bryk

Maybe the two of you can team up an accomplish something together that can’t be done by just one person.

Bummer. I don't do the print and play thing, but I like to see friends succeed. I had imagined Flatpack to be doing brisk business in my absence, bringing wealth to all involved.

Good luck for all who make attempts at furthering their dreams, though.

This means you, Redcap!

Sniff, sniff…

So where does this thing called flatpackgames stand…

First the site is down because I did not renew with the host yet. Just expired a week or two ago. No hurry to renew right now.

The site’s hosting contract expiring marks a year with very little (read “no”) progress. Why? Well, if you want to start your site here are three things you should NOT do concurrently with starting your print and play side-business:
1. Have a one-year old child in the house.
2. Have a one-year old child in the house.
3. Have a one-year old child in the house.
A bit of an exaggeration, but a lot of free time is sacrificed. And that’s ok by me.

The truer plague this last year was the disappointing and unprofessional behavior of the website developers I tried to employ to do the site for me. (I won’t go into the gory details here.) I do not know how to do web design. I’m sure I could figure it out, but see points 1 thru 3 above for an insight into my free time. Moreover, because this is an e-commerce site of sorts I wanted to have an assurance that the site was set up properly. I did not want the site to get of on the wrong foot and lose any credibility due to security issues, poor functionality, etc, etc. So I was willing to pay to get the site up and running properly and then manage things from there.

(Ok I will go into the gory details….) Over the past year I have talked seriously to no less than 6 designers who all said that they would start working on the project for an agreed sum of money. They all seem to say they will start work in 3-6 weeks. Then after said period of time passes, no one answers emails. Presumably they got another job that pays better. Who knows? Admittedly this is a small project, but when you agree to do a job, you do it. At least respond and say you can’t or won’t do it…sheesh.

Many, many designers I approached wanted $6k-10k to do the site. For what would be a hobby site, I could not justify such an expense. I figured it would cost a few thousand dollars to get the site up. I would also do all the copy, create and format the downloadable files, and I was doing all the art and did most of the site layout (and it's nice if I do say so myself!). I wanted to do a lot of sweat equity stuff. I just needed expertise the site structure and database. One designer suggested using Drupal could save time and money and he was going to do the site for me, but I never heard from him again. So after so many starts and stops, I just stopped for a while all together. I really haven’t even thought about the site in a couple months hoping out of shear dumb luck that a web site developer would just fall from the sky into my lap. (waiting...waiting...)

This is the major reason FPG is not up and running. So if you can do your own programming, you are in business because I agree the interest AND more importantly the market is there. And it would be great to have as an addition to the community.

I feel like I’ve let everyone down. I’m sorry for failing a community I’ve come to love. There really was a lot of excitement generated this time last year. It’s a problem that can be solved very easily by throwing some money at it, but for the scale of what it would be, or at least start as, I just can’t rationalize going so far off budget like that.

Coincidentally, just last week I may have found a real interesting way of making this all come together…but that is top secret right now. Sorry.

The future of FPG? Uncertain, but ever hopeful.

For those that know nothing about FPG, here is what you would find as a mission/intention/aspiration if you went to the site when it was up:

About the web design, we googled "web design + .org" and found a fundraising group to develop a web site for our footy club - this was after being given run around by several so called professional services.
The fund raising group had a greater level of commitment because working with public funds they had a greater level of accountability.

about cheapass games, smart move. Offering multiple products widened their customer base and increased their chance for survival.

about 1 year old children, time decreases as age increases - bluesea if you haven't got time now wait till the bub gets older!

We don't blame you (bluesea) we all happen to lack of time. Also a project which requires money is always harder and riskier to do.

True, but maybe it's because it's the way the market is done right now. By developing the print and play games, the market could eventually change. Personally, the position of the print and play should be a pre-release of the actual game. You release as print and play, if it works, you publish it. People who have the money would prefer the complete version while those who lack of money will take the print and play.

This way, it will reduce the quantity of crappy games actually getting published physically. Only good games will pass the publishing step. Players would also have a lot of time to give feedback to improve the commercialized version.

It could be very interesting if for example they could eventually sell package of components. Then when you sell your P&P game, you say, this game requires package no8. So if the player already have package 8, he can play your game.

Of course there are a lot of P&P games and many of them are free. So when you ask to sell them, it could be a problem: too much competition. So you need something to pull out of the crowd. I think the only argument we can have is about quality. If we force our self to produce quality games, not just a game we made in an afternoon, it might attract people to come back. which makes it easier to sell other games.

I agree that the situation is not perfect right now, we just need a way to make it works.

Still, a boost in P&P could be done with e-paper. But right now e-paper application seems nothing more than an improved LCD screen. There is actually no e-paper playable cards. At most a board could be done.

(Have just made some comments in the P-500 thread, and missed this one, which might have been a better place. But I'm not going to repeat myself!)

I agree entirely that financial success is by no means the only measurement of success in a market, and especially not in a hobby market - and, for all the occasional breakout success, boardgaming still is. (I'm not at all convinced that crowdsourcing is at all useful for the sorts of things being done here though.)

I am glad to know that flatpackgames has actually started, even if real life has got in the way (as it always does.) I am sorry to hear about the woes you had with website design; I know that it's hard enough to get things done when you are your own client*, let alone dealing with contractors, particularly ones you don't know.
*I have so many half-done projects it's getting absurd... :)

So I look forward to you being able to get back to the project and also to contributing work there once it is up-and-running. But don't push its priority above other things that are more important.

I appreciate the fact your 1-year-old was more important than your dream website/business. I have 2-year-old twins, and have a lot less time to design games and contact publishers, but I can always do that another time. And you can always try again someday. Your kids are only there for a short time, and the time you make for them will impact them forever!

Crowdsourcing is when a company gets ordinary people to improve its products for free. Like how certain software companies allow their coding to be made public so ordinary folks can create mods/programs that make more people want to use the software. And this is without having to pay anyone to do it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowdsourcing

and really, wikipedia is a form of crowdsourcing.

In reply to the original question, I think there is potential for a website that offers people a chance to print-and-play a game, and potentially later purchase an actual box version if it turns out to be fun. Of course, there's always a challenge when it comes to providing game pieces that may be required in the print-and-play version, but here's what I'm thinking...

As a game developer, I would like to get my game out there with as little investment as possible and see if it is going to be successful. If it turns out that people want it, then I would like help in getting it published and marketed professionally.

As one who loves to play games with friends and family, I would like to offer them a game that I already know will be fun. But it should have a nice, professional-looking appearance. I don't want to bring out something that I printed on my computer and then use toothpaste caps as game pieces. So, if I could try out a print-and-play version, and like it, then I would like to buy a box version to have around for those special occasions when friends and family are over.

Then there are all those games in my closet that are complete duds. They sounded good in the store, but if I could have tried them first, they would still be in the store, not in my closet.

To Redcap:

I think this is a great idea - so much that I finally registered for this new site instead of just lurking. But I would stick really strongly to your convictions of playtesting the games first. I'd even take it further. Remember the game design process is:

1. Game designer invents, playtests and refines
2. Editor (someone who works for the publisher) invents, playtests and designs
3. Design is published and distributed

Many print-and-play sites skip step 2 - they leave it to the designer to give a finished game, and to make sure it's marketable and playable. I think this is always a mistake - in most cases, game designers make very poor editors. If you think you're a good editor, and you'll work exactly like a real high-quality game publisher would (except simply distribute over the web), you'll really have something. But I would take a larger percentage of the profits - I would split it 50/50, for example. I would also offer a really high-quality website (as you suggested), with lots of pictures and play examples. Also offer print-on-demand service for those who just want it right away. And a resource section, with lots of instructions, and the ability to purchase actual supplies (like punch-out cards, heavy board stock, dice, wooden parts, etc.). Even a flash version of some of these games would be amazing, and lead to good sales.

This would all take a sizeable investment, but I think you need to do that to distinguish yourself from the other print-and-play services. Sites with a low initial investment that simply host games that designers have "finished" - well, there's places that do it better and cheaper than you can. Even if you only choose high-quality games, I just don't think that enough. Any site that accepts EVERYTHING and has a ranking system can replicate that same functionality.

Anyway, I think your idea is great - just don't "dilute" it, or do it 80% of the way - take it all the way and it could really be something successful.

I was thinking there could be a print and play website that is similar to iTunes. Similar in the sense, you pay one dollar, and you can print the components. The graphics would have to be very good in order to get most people hooked, and the database would need 300+ games to begin with. If the site was appealing, I think this could be popular with lots of people.

Incorperated with the site could be a game component database. Different games could have common pieces like dice, pawns, wooden cubes, etc... When a person buys a game, he gets credit/reward points to order a package of components of his choice. Or he could buy them along with the game to get a discount. So this means there are two purchasing options when buying a game:
download components - 0.99
download and order - 4.99 (includes dice pacakge[link])
All prices would include shipping, so people never worry about shipping.

These are just a few ideas for everyones consideration.

Lucas