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Is this Copyright Infringement?

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Pastor_Mora
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Copyright Question: F-15 Eagle Card from WWN

Is this Copyright Infringement?

I’m attaching a card image of a strategic wargame I’m on to. It uses at least 4 elements that I’m doubtful of the copyright protection they may be subject to. Maybe you have run into this same situation so I will appreciate any hints on this. Standard disclaimer applies, so don’t be modest.

1º) the US Navy/Army/AirForce seal: I take for granted that you do not require their permission to use it! Is this true? Could I use the 82º Airborne Division insignia, for example, in my cards?
2º) the manufacturer of the unit (General Dynamics, McDonnell Douglas, etc): I think it is as ok as mentioning them in this forum post. Is it? Should I just use “F-15 Eagle” without their name? Can I use “F-15 Eagle” at all without their permission???!!!
3º) same for the manufacturer/model of the weaponry: is “Paveway” or “Sidewinder” registered?
4º) lo detail technical drawings: if it is rightly done and I do it rightly myself, both drawings should be identical so: Can they be copyrightable by any other than the manufacturer? Should I have the permission of the manufacturer?

Thanks in advance. I have a demo I’m thinking in throwing into contests in US but (being from the dark side of the Earth) these things are totally out of my league.

KT!

Katherine
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Pastor_Mora, By asking the

Pastor_Mora,

By asking the question you have acknowledged that someone else owns the art. Common courtesy says you should ask permission from the owner but not on this forum.

This is the Board Game DESIGNERS forum. It used to be where people tossed very inovative ideas around with some very original art, not figure out how to use another designers art.

Taavet
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Good Question

Just my opinion because I am no expert but I think those all fall under the public domain and would be free to use.

The only exception might be the weaponry name which depending on the manucaturer might be protected in some way but I don't think any of them would object in anyway to you using and describing the actual things used in warfare.

truekid games
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the names could potentially

the names could potentially be trademarked, the drawings (as any drawing is) copyrighted. an interesting question, despite shazzazz's over-reaction. there are obviously lots of games that use military names and insignias already, so that's -probably- not a sticking point. the copyrights on the technical drawings are more likely to enforced, so i would definitely see about obtaining permission for those (since your usage is reasonably innocuous, i'd wager they wouldn't have any real problem with it, but you never know).

abeja_reina_1989 (not verified)
Sounds like it to me

Sounds like it to me

abeja_reina_1989 (not verified)
Sounds like it is to me.

Sounds like it is to me. However, if no one notices, nothing may happen.. a pretty big gamble in my opinion.

_________________

Pastor_Mora
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Wiki research

Well, after reading about half of the 100+ wikipedia articles on intelectual property laws, I came upon this:

ARMED FORCES SEAL:
The policy for use of the Navy seal and emblem is contained in SECNAV Instr 5030.4.. Requests for use of the Navy emblem should be submitted in writing to Defense Printing Service, ATTN: DPSMO, 8725 John Kingman Rd Suite 3239, Fort Belvoir, VA 22060-6220. The telephone number is (703) 767-4218.

TECHNICAL DRAWINGS:
This work is in the public domain in the United States because it is a work of the United States Federal Government under the terms of Title 17, Chapter 1, Section 105 of the US Code. See Copyright.

MILITARY INSIGNIA:
This image is a representation of a U.S. military badge, created by the U.S. military and/or the Department of Defense. As a work of the U.S. federal government, this image is in the public domain

WEAPON TRADEMARKS:
Lockheed Martin and Raytheon compete to supply LGBs to the United States Air Force and others. Raytheon claims the exclusive right to use Paveway as a trademark for selling LGB-related products. Lockheed Martin claims Paveway is a generic term in the defense industry. Lockheed objected to Raytheon's registration of Paveway in opposition proceedings before the United States Patent and Trademark Office. (Trial on hold since 2006!!)

So, apparently, it's OK for the technical drawings and corps insignias, but I should get permission for forces seals and weapons manufacturers (not that anybody would mind, but you never know).

Thanks for your replies guys. At least for most of them. When I said don't be modest, I expected a straight answer, not a spit in the face. Anyway, I'll be more careful next time.

Hope this posts served modern wargame designers.

Keep thinking!

Taavet
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Mostly right :D

I guess I came close.

I think some of the other posters may have been warning you about technical drawings that you would find on someone else's website. Say some artist's portfolio who specializes in aircraft technical drawings. Taking another artist's technical drawings and using them without permission could have copyright issues but making your own technical drawings (as you indicated) or those provided by the Federal Governemnt would be safe.

Thanks for the information, although I don't know that I will ever make a modern warfare game.

Keep up the good work!

Sarge
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Wish I had seen this post earlier.

Sorry Pastor Mora ,I wish I had seen this post earlier, I have gone through all of the same research for my WWII based naval game. As you have learned, many things are freely available for use. Virtually any document produced by a government employee performing his/her normal duties is public domain. My question revolved around photos, quotes, and historical reports and records. I wanted to use photos in my documentation that people might have seen in the past, to relate the photo to the game element. In short, if you wanted to use an official U. S. Air force Photo of an F-15, as, say, a background for your card, that would normally be OK. Similar items from the British government, and commonwealth are under Crown Copywrite and require a small fee, (usually less than one dollar). If it is more than 50 years old, then just an acknowledgment of the Crown Copywrite is sufficient. I know you probably found out what you wanted to know, but I thought I would post this for more expanded info, or for others.

ReneWiersma
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Pastor Mora. I just wanted to

Pastor Mora. I just wanted to let you know that I thought this was a very interesting question. I'm glad you found the answers to it and cared to share it with us. I guess Shazzaz just had a bad day ;)

larienna
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Why don't you use country

Why don't you use country flags instead?

Pastor_Mora
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Crown Copyright and Flags

Thanks for your replies (and support!). The Crown Copywrite is quite a problem because I must pay like 40 dollars in banking fees to make a 1 dollar deposit in UK form Argentina (3rd World Rules!). Anyway, the game has six factions including the Arab League, and in that deck I use different flags, so maybe I should consider a simpler aproach. Asking for permission to use the navy seal seems like a big non sense for a boardgame, but I understand pentagon's concern. So, i'll

Keep Thinking!

scifiantihero
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If . . .

. . . it's kinda futuristic, you could design your own icons and stuff.

Pastor_Mora
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Nope :(

It's really the common cold-war-end scenario...

Sarge
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heres mine

Here is a very rough copy of one of mine to show what i mean.

http://www.bgdf.com/node/3022

Pastor_Mora
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Nice :)

Didn't the Dauntless carry torpedoes too? I can't really figure out if you included them.
Why is the Base Strength so enphasised (large)?

Sarge
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nope....

No-- just bombs… the large area for strength is a great little record keeping mechanic… as the units are damaged, I stack mini poker chips on that spot on the card. The chips have the same values as poker, ie white= 1 red= 5 ect… that way we can degrade performance and track damage without the use of pen and paper record keeping and no charts needed. I’ll show some of these things with photos when I get closer to a final version. I think what you are doing might be similar to mine.. Different time frame…

Pastor_Mora
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Not quite

I don't keep unit damage. Mine is a global-scale war (like Risk). Anyway, I went back to wikipedia to clear my memories about SBDs and torpedoes and find out this:

"The type's first major use was in the Battle of the Coral Sea, when SBDs and TBDs sank the Shōhō. SBDs were also used as anti-torpedo COMBAT AIR PATROL and scored several times against Japanese aircraft trying to attack USS Lexington and USS Yorktown. (...) Their relatively heavy gun armament (two forward firing .50 in (12.7 mm) machine guns, one to two rear flexible-mount .30 caliber machine guns was effective against the lightly built Japanese fighters, and many pilot-gunner combinations took an aggressive attitude to fighters which attacked them. One pilot, Stanley "Swede" Vejtasa, was attacked by three A6M Zero fighters and managed to down all three (His skill clearly demonstrated, he was transferred to fly a fighter; in October 1942, he downed seven enemy planes in one day.)"

1º) I got messed with the TBD Devastator
2º) Isn't a skill of 2 in Air-to-Air a little low? (that would get the Devastator to -3!)
3º) Is the "Embarked" skill not something to point out in your game mechanic?

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