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Custom Engraved dice versus Stickering

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Shoe
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So, I've been working with a lot of dice with custom faces in my game designs, and I have a question for everyone:

Why aren't there more games with dice with stickers on each face, rather than custom engraved dice. For Example:

Starwars Edge of the Empire

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/StarWarsRPG/edge-of-the-em...

VS

the stuff I buy from Indentedblankdice.com

https://www.thegamecrafter.com/product-images/DiceSticker.jpg

is there a stigma to stickering dice? Do you find the StarWars custom die to be more appealing/seem less amature or something? Let me know what you all think about each option? I find that cool art on stickers on dice is no different from custom engravin except you can color it and it costs less (thus theoretically reducing costs for the game..assuming buyer placed stickers).

Thoughts?

-Shoe

anonymousmagic
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While cost is a very

While cost is a very important part of the design, it's not the only one.
I've had some games that did have stickered dice where the stickers let loose after a couple of years of play. If I expect to play a game a lot, I'm not opposed to shell out a couple of dollars or euros extra on engraved dice. They may be more expensive, but they last longer, which typically ends up being the deciding factor for me.

questccg
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Different options

Well if you WANT CUSTOM d6s from The Game Crafter (TGC) you need to go the sticker route. They don't produce moulds for custom dice.

If you want custom dice (not stickers) the problem is usually satisfying MINIMUM orders of said dice. I could be wrong, but if I remember one place told me I would need to have 10,000 custom dice produced if I wanted CUSTOM d6.

I tried looking through my e-mails but I couldn't find the quote information. I basically said I'd go with normal dice - even if they don't look as nice as custom dice with golden pips...

anonymousmagic
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questccg wrote:Well if you

questccg wrote:
Well if you WANT CUSTOM d6s from The Game Crafter (TGC) you need to go the sticker route. They don't produce moulds for custom dice.

If you want custom dice (not stickers) the problem is usually satisfying MINIMUM orders of said dice. I could be wrong, but if I remember one place told me I would need to have 10,000 custom dice produced if I wanted CUSTOM d6.

I tried looking through my e-mails but I couldn't find the quote information. I basically said I'd go with normal dice - even if they don't look as nice as custom dice with golden pips...


Which is why I would like to license any game I design through a publisher who knows what they're doing. That will give me the freedom to expect a certain number of sales that makes print runs and minimum orders more feasible.

Shoe
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For the games I am working

For the games I am working on, the cost was a factor, but the major reason I ask is because I want to display what amounts to a full color graphic on die faces. This doesnt lend itsself well to engraved dice, but I could modify the mechanics to work ok with less colorful/graphic images if I had too, but I feel it would detract from the game.

Are stickered dice a dealbreaker for people. Will you flat out not buy a game because it uses them?

Corsaire
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My hangup

My hangup with sticker dice is I pay $xx to buy a game and find myself with the opportunity to ruin my game right out of the box before I have a chance to play it by misapplying stickers. Other than that I find the richer more colorful details of stickers appealing and am designing a game that at least intend to use that approach for prototyping.

questccg
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Go for it!

Shoe wrote:
...Are stickered dice a dealbreaker for people. Will you flat out not buy a game because it uses them?

I think stickered dice are okay. The one thing you need to do is have illustrations in the rulebook so players know how to place the stickers on each dice.

The only problem is if you have MANY dice... Then it could be a challenge to get all of the dice properly (even if you document it well with illustrations and all...)

It don't think there is any *stigma* to stickered dice. On the contrary, they are a low cost alternative to CUSTOM moulded dice. Plus like you said, you can have coloured graphics as opposed to line art used with custom moulded dice.

IMHO I think you should be fine with a game that uses stickers. I don't believe there is any issues at all - except if you have MANY dice. What's many? Maybe more than four (4). If you have like six (6) custom dice with stickers - that's a lot to illustrate in the rulebook. It may take 1 page of the rulebook to show how the stickers should be used on the dice.

But you should definitely consider using stickers and blank dice because it's much more reasonable (in terms of cost), can produce nicer graphics instead of just line art and you end up with CUSTOM d6s... And we know most people like dice in their game! :)

So I say "Go For It!" ;)

melx
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The alternative for those 2

The alternative for those 2 variants are printing on dice later - I think it´s called tampoprinting?
I have used this possibility and it looks proper!
It can be asked from companies who dealing with promotional items and print logos to pens etc. The price is more expensive if the quantity is smaller (and if there more colors on sides) but there are no minimum price.

Shoe
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Do you have any example

Do you have any example things this technique is used on?

My game has 13 dice in it, but they are all identical in faces. They are used to form a resource pool rather than to be rolled and are rolled when put back into the pool, so the limited set of resources constantly changes as you do more things.

Each die has 5 different images on it, and one of those images appears on 2 faces. The resources are Scrap (metal), Chemicals, Blasters, rags, and WILD (players can choose what resource they want it to be).

danieledeming
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The Dice Dilemma

While I don't think that there is necessarily a stigma against stickered dice (personally,) I think that what you want to do with the game should decide what you should do with the dice.

Concerns with stickers are going to be 1) proper set up/application, 2) durability/longevity, and 3) the overall look.

Stickers aren't going to last as long or be as durable as a mold, so if this is a game that's going to be played regularly (or that you want played regularly) you run the risk of losing stickers. Also, you run into storage problems, as far as moisture and temperature affecting the adhesive. I don't think the number of dice you have is unreasonable, nor is it overly complicated, for the owner to assemble, but we all know real dice look and play better. Are you trying to self publish it or are you just submitting it to publishers? These are all things to consider.

All that said, if you can afford it, maybe through Kickstarter, definitely spring for the mold. Especially depending on the price you're getting for it. (Check out/maybe contact Hunters of Arcfall, funded last June. Great quality.)

questccg
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Hmm...

Shoe wrote:
...My game has 13 dice in it, but they are all identical in faces...

Well then I would go with a dice mould and they can make different colours (if you want). 13 dice is A LOT. Putting stickers on 13 dice will probably be expensive (from TGC).

Here's the thing: if you BUY a sheet of Stickers, you get 120 stickers for $2.75. Now it would be a WASTE if you simply printed enough stickers for your requirements. So 6 x 13 = 78. You have 42 additional stickers (7 complete dice) that I would add just in case some dice side gets ruined...

BUT because you have 13 custom dice per game, it would be very easy to satisfy mould minimums. With 1,000 game sets, you have 13,000 dice! That should be enough to pay for the mould. Especially if in your case they are identical.

However you will need to use line art for moulds. Otherwise the image may not appear to be clear... It's a compromise but the dice will for sure last LONGER.

I thought you only had like four (4) or five (5) dice and you wanted them to all be different! Having 13 identical ones changes things a little bit (IMHO).

Shoe
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the problem being, stuff like

the problem being, stuff like scrap, rags and chemicals are hard things to do with only line drawings...

I suppose it depends, maybe some abstraction is in order...I'm no artist

Corsaire
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There's the laser engraving

There's the laser engraving from like Chessex:
http://www.chessex.com/Dice/Custom_Dice_Home.htm

for around $2.50 per 16mm die (500 dice ordered)

Or custom full printed dice form Game Parts:
http://www.gameparts.net/cust_1_dice.htm

for $1.77 (includes setup charge) per 16mm die (1000 dice ordered)

Shoe
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that second link looks

that second link looks awesome, its perfect for what I want to do!

melx
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example of tampo printing

Some custom dice with tampo printing with one side
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/1964937/melx
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/1186451/eesti-jalgpall
The images may be more complex and multicolored but each additional color per side they must print it again with the same price.

This Dice was originally blank 16mm plastic.

Ask local companies who make promotinal items, maybe thay have these type of printing machines.

Shoe
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well, i think this will work

well, i think this will work waaaay better than stickers for the final product

Swiftshadow
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Stickered dice are great in

Stickered dice are great in the short term. That is what I have been using as my own prototypes, but the do wear down.

If you dont use indended dice then done even consider stickers.

The dice from http://indentedblankdice.com work very well and I have nothing but positive things to say about the company.

The challenge is even those dice with stickers wear out. If the game has great replay value the dice will end up looking bad after a while under the best condtions let alone dirt and spills.

They are a much cheaper alternative to laser or moulded but you need to really weight the good and the bad.

anonymousmagic
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BGG

Drop by BGG and search for the game journal of Flippin' Fruits.
They had their dice custom printed with cartoon fruits (in color) and it wasn't a general d6 either. Seemed to work great for them.

lewpuls
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Costs

$1.77 per die raises the price of the game (multiplier of 5, the lowest I've heard of) by $8.85 per die. Does not sound practical.

The broader your market, the less likely they are to want to deal with the hassles of stickers. And some people simply cannot do a good stickering job for lack of coordination etc.

Shoe
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That is REALLY expensive

That is REALLY expensive

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