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a ripped off game on kickstarter

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federicolatini
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in 2015, during the era of crowd-datas, how can somebody pretend to have designed a game and sell it on kickstarter without fearing that eventualy somebody will point that the game is a total rip off of a traditional game called Mia.
This is exactly what happened here: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/167427101/dead-mans-chest-a-pirate-...

please enjoy my further reference:
http://www.lore-and-saga.co.uk/html/dice.html
http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/41247/mia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mia_(game)

I'm waiting for Paul Jefferies exuses to the whole category of game designers, amateurs and pros.

please express what you think about this.

Federico

questccg
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What about Mafia or Werewolf???

Take this game for example:

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/38159/ultimate-werewolf-ultimate...

This is a take on "Loups Garous de Thiercelieux": http://lesloupsgarous.free.fr/htm/regles.html

A French version of "Werewolf". Both are basically the same party game. But designers have put their own SPIN on either of these two games.

Ted Alspach the designer of "Ultimate Werewolf" even had a Kickstarter that was terminated prematurely (don't know why?) in which he was proposing to make an "Ultimate Mafia" party game...

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tedalspach/ultimate-mafia-the-party...

So maybe the designer was taking a SPIN of an old game and bringing into life a new concept. I'm sure the rules aren't 100% the same nor is the game play either. But I could be wrong.

Just my 2 cents.

Soulfinger
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federicolatini wrote:in 2015,

federicolatini wrote:
in 2015, during the era of crowd-datas, how can somebody pretend to have designed a game and sell it on kickstarter without fearing that eventualy somebody will point that the game is a total rip off of a traditional game called Mia.

So you are complaining that someone re-themed a public domain game that dates back at least 400 years? There is nothing wrong with that. It is common practice in the industry, and Mia itself is likely derived from an earlier game. Liar's Dice "ripped it off" in 1987. In fact, this isn't the first pirate-themed adaptation of this game mechanic.

If anyone is in the wrong here, it is you, as your groundless accusations could be construed as libel. By going forum to forum, trying to drag the publisher's name through the mud, you only demonstrate your own ignorance of how this industry works. There are hundreds of Kickstarter projects far more deserving of your indignation, or perhaps if you'd like to be more constructive in your future endeavors then may I suggest speaking out against child soldiers, poverty, or the sorry state of Italy's postal system instead.

federicolatini
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I complain about the fact

I complain about the fact that the original game is not mentioned at all, I find it very unfair, not to mention that i find the game pretty identical. Now I got to go to complain about italian postage system. ... :)

Soulfinger
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That is true of most

That is true of most published games though. There is no disclaimer crediting Dungeons & Dragons in every published RPG, just as Fantasy Flight won't be thanking the author of their Starcraft game in their new Forbidden Stars game that uses the same system. Look at just about any game on Board Game Geek, and you'll see a list of alternate names, common mechanics, and publishers who've printed the game in its various incarnations.

Game designs are tremendously incestuous. It is much like sampling in the music industry, except without any of the protections accorded to a musician. A subject that comes up often here is that in the United States game mechanics receive no copyright protection whatsoever. In this case though, the game designers have been dust and bones for centuries, so it is not as though someone's livelihood is being impacted or their intellectual rights infringed on. As Solomon observes in Ecclesiastes, "What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun."

federicolatini
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I agree 100%, and I'm glad

I agree 100%, and I'm glad that no copyright can be claimed on a game mechanic because that would stifle innovation, however in this kickstarter there is no innovation at all, between the traditional game rules and the EGG game rules there is no difference, tell me why I should credit a designer for this game, he is only the one that took the game and decided to claim it as his own. Am I the only one to see it that way? please explain me why I'm wrong, tell me why the designer of this game should be credited.
thanks
federico

questccg
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What about THEME???

If this game is identical to Mia, well doesn't it matter that the game was "re-themed" into ANOTHER theme, namely Pirates ("Dead Man's Chest"). So the designer is only taking credit with regards to re-theming a 400 year old game. I don't think anyone else has had the idea to "rip-off", oops I mean, re-theme a game such as Mia...

But I understand your point: not re-inventing a 400 year old game does not mean that designer should take credit for the game.

The TEST: we'll see who buys it!

federicolatini
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i'll buy it!

i'll buy it!

Soulfinger
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federicolatini wrote:tell me

federicolatini wrote:
tell me why I should credit a designer for this game, he is only the one that took the game and decided to claim it as his own.

Why not give him credit? In this world of 7 billion people, why not give the poor schlemiel his day in the sun, selling maybe a few hundred copies of a game most people will never know about? Henry Ford didn't invent the automobile or build any of the cars that bear his surname. In my ideal world, he'd instead be widely known and reviled as the antisemitic POS who published "The International Jew." Calvin Klein doesn't sew the clothes with his name on them (and didn't design most of them either). In a fair and wonderful world, they'd each be attributed to the individual children who sewed them in Asia. In a perfect world, this game designer would have had a wonderful, unique idea to peddle. As things stand, he did what everyone else in every other industry does to get credit for something, he made the connections, beat other people to the punch, and got it into production. Whether that is moxie or chutzpah, you can give him credit for that.

jeffinberlin
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It's not a crime to retheme a

It's not a crime to retheme a traditional, public domain game, as has already been said. Not very original, and not really "game design", but not a crime. Uno did that and made a fortune. It's a bit misleading to say that someone "invented" Uno, as it's more savvy marketing than game design.

There would be cause to make a big fuss online, however, if someone cloned a game not in the public domain that actually credits a designer or designers. Mechanics are borrowed all the time, but the game has to be different.

HOW different is still a hot topic for debate.

JohnnyDavids13
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"Rip-offs"

If people will buy a product you obviously did something right, whether it was just your new spin on things with your theme, a tiny mechanic change, or a brilliant original product.

If people buy a product that is just a reskin, then it may be that they have never heard of the product before(good marketing on that project), love the new theme(good art/creativity on the the theme) , or maybe just they wanted to try your version(Dedicated players of the type of game).

Experimental Designs
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It is things like this makes

It is things like this makes me uneasy about using Kickstarter as a platform to get a design started.

lewpuls
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Someone applied a Cthulu

Someone applied a Cthulu theme (out of copyright, btw) to Viking hnefatafl, and ran a successful KS. I don't recall whether he actually mentioned the derivation or not.

People make Britannia-like games, CLEARLY derived from Britannia, but don't mention (my design) Britannia at all. Meh, I have lots more important things to worry about.

Stratego is a slight (legal) variation of L'Attaque (1909). Most people don't even know that.

GameKnight
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Uno was a reboot of Crazy Eights

Uno sold millions of copies because they dressed up an ordinary deck of cards as something more interesting and unique. It was brilliant. There are always going to be some old public domain games that get a reboot and have success. In fact, it is probably a strategy for some publishers. You still have to engage the market in a unique way.

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